[Kharon97]

I’ve been through a lot within the last 11 years and I guess I’ve gotten to the point where it’s all just bull to me. I’ve been assaulted, violated, beaten, manipulated, cheated, and taken advantage of.. etc. Whatever hopes and dreams I once had for myself are gone. They’re dead. I’m just a shell, I just breath and react to my environment… The best way I can describe it is being the background crowd in the photograph. One of the “extras” It’s surreal and in a bad way.

All problems at this point just seem petty, they’re grey areas and that’s all they are. I guess it’s so much that it’s all just… unamusing. I have no one to confide these thought or feelings to any more, It’s just me, alone. ALL.THE.TIME. I’m starting to realize that those who are truly happy are either

A) Truly happy with their life and what they’ve made out of it.
Or
B) Truly ignorant about life and as an old saying goes “ignorance is bliss”

It’s starting to seem like people lean towards option B…

The “happiest” of people that I’ve met so far don’t know what it’s like to have depression, suicidal thoughts, triggers, anxieties, voices… Disorders, disorders, ”disorders. Then again, I’m told by people from my support group and therapy sessions that this life is “worth it.” All of their talk seems so hypocritical…

I can’t tell anyone what my plans are without getting some B.S. excuse among the lines of “It gets better” or “you need to change your thinking”, “get out of your environment.” I’ve been the same way for years now. When does any of this get better? I’ve been through therapy, taken meds, got out, explored, meet new people… I want to exit my own life and I guess all I want is for someone to just be there and try not to reason with me, and when the time comes… just be there. That’s all I really want now.

What do I have to lose when I have nothing to lose but my own mind and body? What else is left? Now that I think about it, exiting, and doing it for yourself isn’t weak… When someone tells me to think about the “survivors” I’m just like; “Have you ever thought about what their final moments were like, the intensity of those feelings they had??"

Is it even selfish to want to go all out and lose your screws? While I’m living and breathing on this earth I get treated like I’m worthless, but the minute I cut my ropes… That’s when people start caring… Seems ironic really.

Am I alone with this thinking?

[M3233]

Stay strong. You can make it through these tough times. Please find someone, anyone, whether it be a therapist, a close friend, or a crisis line to help you through this. I hope that something good comes your way very soon. My thoughts are with you.

[Dont_Follow]

This life is the only standard we have to compare to when people say it's worth it. We all just show up on this weird rock and do what we can. There is an interesting sense of freedom when you begin looking at death as a welcomed thing. You realize how insignificant any and all obligations are when looking through that lens. I won't tell you that things will get better, but I will tell you that you can grab this brief existence by the horns and do what you will with it.

I'm curious if you'd expand on some of the problems that are bringing you down. Did you have any plans for your life?

[Pikku Myy]

I lived under an extreme bully for years trying to please this person.. get help, get out, even if you have to sacrifice for it. I almost died because I hoped it would get better. We have different pasts all of us. Leave it behind, be a new you. You deserve it

[eskielover]

I've been through the loss of my computer engineering career I was hiding away in to avoide my bad marriage, then into major depression & anxiety & numerous suicide attempts that I was angry that weren't successful. Continuous migraine headaches that don't go away, mother died of cancer & had to confront the abusive home care person I caught. That whole situation created PTSD issues from the encounter. Anorexia hospitalized numerous times for & stuck on IV nutrition just to survive.

After my mom died I took sold her home, took my inheritance & moved 2100 miles away where I knew no one. Things started out shakes here but life has become wonderful. I have wonderful friends, involved in the community & honestly, life couldn't be better. There are many things I struggle with but it's so down in the noise from where I was that even the difficult things aren't that bad. I have my freedom, I have my relationship with God & wonderful supportive friends. Life IS good & so much better than it was.

[Gus1234U]

i too, decided, as you have, that life wasn't going to get better for me.

thankfully, things came along at just the right time to show me that if all i had was me, at least i could work on not being miserable. that has been my passion for the last 11 yrs,, and it is working ~! i am a much happier, nicer person now, tho life still sucks and i still have no "real" life, no job, no friends, no contact with very little family...etc.

what i DO have is a purpose, a goal, and a freedom from those thoughts of self-annihilation that used to goad me to do foolish things. if you want to see if this is something that might serve you,, i suggest the buddhist mind training (lojong) slogans, ,which are 59 suggestions on how to change your way of thinking about and responding to, events.

i'd be glad to discuss them with you, if you are interested,,, there is a link to a web site where you can read them, and then receive each one in a daily, or weekly post, to help you along. there are seven well known teachers and thinkers who each phrase the slogan in their own words, so many people can find one who they understand.

(unfortunately the main site has been hacked and is under reconstruction... ) here is an alternate site to read:

Train Your Mind: Lojong commentary by Judy Lief | Tricycle

i wish i had a more secular, less 'buddhist' site, but at the moment, this is the only way i know to introduce you to the ideas that make life worth living, regardless of it's external affairs. many of the aims of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) are similar to these.

best wishes~
may you have the desire to change, and the means to change~!

[eskielover]

I do need to add that I found several wonderful psychologists in the small town that put the ones in Calif to shame. Two years of group DBT gave me an understanding of how the brain works & skills, some I already used unknowingly...but most of all it gave me words to be able to express my emotions I didn't even realize I was feeling or why. I unknowingly thought from my growing up years that people were either emotional like my mom or logical like me with no emotional thinking. Boy was I wrong. It was wonderful to learn that emotions can be good in that they are our indicators that something could be wrong that needs our mindful attention. I got so much out of DBT along with all the other wonderful changes including being surrounded by supportive people who for once in my life I could trust to take care of things I couldn't on my own. That support system are wonderful friends who are more a real family than I ever had all my life. It's so different not having to just depend on myself for everything & all the right answers. It's taking me a long time to learn that I don't have to be so independent & it's ok to ask for help & get it. That has been the most amazing part to actually have friends willing to advocate for me who had the contacts I didn't.

[Pikku Myy]

Gus is the best add Hippiebea. esk you would enjoy the spirituality chat on Sat ams. These two helped me become a whole person again.

[karen1]

Originally Posted by Kharon97

I’ve been through a lot within the last 11 years and I guess I’ve gotten to the point where it’s all just bull to me. I’ve been assaulted, violated, beaten, manipulated, cheated, and taken advantage of.. etc. Whatever hopes and dreams I once had for myself are gone. They’re dead. I’m just a shell, I just breath and react to my environment… The best way I can describe it is being the background crowd in the photograph. One of the “extras” It’s surreal and in a bad way.

All problems at this point just seem petty, they’re grey areas and that’s all they are. I guess it’s so much that it’s all just… unamusing. I have no one to confide these thought or feelings to any more, It’s just me, alone. ALL.THE.TIME. I’m starting to realize that those who are truly happy are either

A) Truly happy with their life and what they’ve made out of it.
Or
B) Truly ignorant about life and as an old saying goes “ignorance is bliss”

It’s starting to seem like people lean towards option B…

The “happiest” of people that I’ve met so far don’t know what it’s like to have depression, suicidal thoughts, triggers, anxieties, voices… Disorders, disorders, ”disorders. Then again, I’m told by people from my support group and therapy sessions that this life is “worth it.” All of their talk seems so hypocritical…

I can’t tell anyone what my plans are without getting some B.S. excuse among the lines of “It gets better” or “you need to change your thinking”, “get out of your environment.” I’ve been the same way for years now. When does any of this get better? I’ve been through therapy, taken meds, got out, explored, meet new people… I want to exit my own life and I guess all I want is for someone to just be there and try not to reason with me, and when the time comes… just be there. That’s all I really want now.

What do I have to lose when I have nothing to lose but my own mind and body? What else is left? Now that I think about it, exiting, and doing it for yourself isn’t weak… When someone tells me to think about the “survivors” I’m just like; “Have you ever thought about what their final moments were like, the intensity of those feelings they had??"

Is it even selfish to want to go all out and lose your screws? While I’m living and breathing on this earth I get treated like I’m worthless, but the minute I cut my ropes… That’s when people start caring… Seems ironic really.

Am I alone with this thinking?

You are never alone, it gets very lonely I know. My daughter will often describe it like a black fog that descends and just hangs there. She talks about the fear of never getting out, and the drain of constantly fighting this and the flip side to this is when things are going a bit better there is a massive fear that it won't last.

I agree completely about the intensity of what people must be feeling the overwhelming raw pain that they must be experiencing when in that space.

Telling anyone that they are a screw up for experiencing what you are feeling or the other people who will tell you they understand what you are going through are just complete ignorant fools.

I acknowledge your pain. I know and I will tell you the world is a better place because you are in it, you make it a better place by your very existence. Keep fighting, reach deep and reach big and I will be thinking of you, hoping and wishing for a happier place for you.

[kamikazebaby]

You're definitely not alone in thinking that way. It's refreshing to read your thoughts. I'm so tired of the delusional BS people spout. LIFE is endless BS. I find it baffling that people prize life so much, as if it has some kind of ultimate, unquestionable value (but those are the delusional or blissfully ignorant ones, I suppose).

I think the really selfish people are the ones who accuse suicidal people of being selfish for thinking of leaving them behind, etc. They never think of what you would be feeling. They only care about themselves. They are not be there for you, but they want you to remain alive and on standby for them. Ugh.

I can honestly tell you that you're not alone in your way of thinking and feeling.

I don't have any advice and I don't have any trite platitudes to toss your way. I'm sitting on a fence right now and I don't know whether to jump or wait to be pushed nor do I know what's on either side.

I'm going to actually make my decision for me. I don't see him for 10 more days but I'm going to wheel in and ask if he's anything else for me. I've done the work, I've put out the effort, if I felt as if he were willing to show some effort, I might stay. I can't think of a single thing that he's said that I either haven't heard dozens of times before or thought of myself.

Possible trigger:

I swear to God, if I didn't have some mind left, I would think that someone was paying him to sway me towards suicide.

I had that thought earlier. If I didn't have some mind left...

I'm going to put it on paper. I actually don't know if he reads what I write (except what he reads here) because he never refers to anything negative that I've written.

I don't need to ask him what he thinks that he's done for me - I think that we both know the answer to that; I want to ask him what he thinks is supposed to be his role. And I want him to define my role.

No, you're not alone. I wonder about the "happy" people, too. I was happy, on and off, for about 31 years, maybe? Happy sounds too strong, though. Okay. I was genuinely happy when I loved and was loved in return. The latter sounds selfish but it's true. One of my best female friends has been married for 35 years and started having kids almost immediately and began loathing the man she married after 2 years of marriage. So she kept having kids. Now the kids bring their kids over to visit her and the man she can't stand. Everyone thinks they've had the perfect marriage.

So where is she? Not happy and not too stupid to think she's happy, just too stupid to think that she could be content by making everyone else happy. Maybe there are some people that are somewhere in there.

A lot depends on age and other relationships. At my age, 57, with my only friend having died two weeks ago, I'm too old and lonely to be happy. I wish I remembered who wrote this but it was written here - "I always thought that I would die lonely but I never thought that there would be no one."

There are a lot of in-betweens from truly ignorant and happy and... whatever. This may sound as trite as anything but I think that if you're bright the best that you can hope for is a love that puts you just above contentment and touching the border of happiness.

It really sucks to be old and alone with no love at all. Unless you're ignorant and are visited by the fairies everyday at tea.

Originally Posted by kamikazebaby

I find it baffling that people prize life so much, as if it has some kind of ultimate, unquestionable value (but those are the delusional or blissfully ignorant ones, I suppose).

I think that the really happy people, and I do believe that there are som, some who don't fall in the ignorant category) are the ones who realise that life has no ultimate value but have managed to, somehow, create value. I'm a romantic of sorts; I believe that value is created with others (or another).

My life had no lasting love; my life has no value.

I'll die, sooner than later, and I'll die unloved. I just went through that with the closest thing that I had to a friend. It amazed me how fast things went after I found his body. The landlord emptied his apartment less than a 16 hours afterward, he was autopsied less than 24 hours afterward and within 36 hours he was cremated and buried.

I guess that I had expected things to go more slowly: I had read a NYT feature earlier this year about a lone man being found dead in his apartment in NYC. They wrote of who was responsible for going through his things, the time that it all took. Not here.

Not here.

[seesaw]

I understand your feelings perfectly. I could've written your post myself. I have severe chronic depression and all I want at this point is a way out. Life is so pointless, and people who claim that "oh, it gets better" don't know what it's like to keep waiting and waiting and waiting for it to get better, all the while you're suffering.

I get it. I really do.

Seesaw

[Pikku Myy]

I may add, I went thru a 3 year Major Depressive period. I woke up mixed manic.. It is very though to struggle thru it all and survive. I did. Took over two years I am here. So can you

Originally Posted by karen1

You are never alone, it gets very lonely I know. My daughter...

I agree completely about the intensity of what people must be feeling the overwhelming raw pain that they must be experiencing when in that space.

I acknowledge your pain. I know and I will tell you the world is a better place because you are in it, you make it a better place by your very existence. Keep fighting, reach deep and reach big and I will be thinking of you, hoping and wishing for a happier place for you.

I can be rude when I'm angry and, thankfully, there are those here to call me out when I am and not allow me to get away with it.

And you're very new here and, Lord knows that I don't want to run anyone away.

So I'll just say, yes, it's true, there are many of us who are absolutely alone.

Completely. On our "Emergency Contact" names you'll find our social worker's name, our PCP's name or maybe a neighbors name. But you won't find the name of a spouse, sibling, parent, child, uncle, aunt, cousin, friend, etc., because if we ever had any, they are long, long gone.

You write of your daughter. You are fortunate that you have one another. She's fortunate to have a parent as empathetic as you. You can't feel the pain, please don't tell your daughter that you can, but "acknowledge your pain," that's good. That's something comforting to hear. "I don't know what your pain feels like, but I acknowledge that you feel it and if there's anything that I can do, even if it means leaving you alone for awhile, please let me know." In our better moments, that feels good even though, in our worst moments, it may sound condescending.

It absolutely sounds condescending to hear "I know and I will tell you the world is a better place because you are in it, you make it a better place by your very existence." Why? Because you don't know those things. Those are the trite things that we've heard, maybe, hundreds (myself, thousands) of times: it didn't ring true at the first AA meeting that we were forced to attend (although not an alcoholic) nor at the one-thousandth CA meeting we were forced to attend (never having touched cocaine).

And I'm using the collective "we" because I know that I speak for a few of us. Some of us really do feel hopeless, as if there's nothing more that we can do for ourselves and nothing else that anyone can do for us.

Just be gentle with us. I never thought that I would be an angry person but this depression is different than the first. My first reaction when I read the quoted sentence was to tear you apart, but I'm learning that if I'll just calm down and try to explain my point of view that I'll be more apt to be understood.

Just ask. Don't tell us that you know anything about us because we resent that type of statement. Don't tell us that you can imagine because you can't. It's fine to interject your own hope, even though we have none so don't expect us to be too appreciative.

That's it. I wasn't rude, I don't think?

I experienced suicide as a bystander and saw first hand the pain and anguish that spiralled further and further affecting more andm7ore people. I realized then I could not do it.

I took some very good therapy. But it was meeting a very good and special person in my life to turn things around. It took quite the leap of faith to pursue this. Today i am stable and relatively content. It just happened. But it wouldn't havd had I not been open to the prospect of good.

[1976kitchenfloor]

Originally Posted by Kharon97

I’ve been through a lot within the last 11 years and I guess I’ve gotten to the point where it’s all just bull to me. I’ve been assaulted, violated, beaten, manipulated, cheated, and taken advantage of.. etc. Whatever hopes and dreams I once had for myself are gone. They’re dead. I’m just a shell, I just breath and react to my environment… The best way I can describe it is being the background crowd in the photograph. One of the “extras” It’s surreal and in a bad way.

All problems at this point just seem petty, they’re grey areas and that’s all they are. I guess it’s so much that it’s all just… unamusing. I have no one to confide these thought or feelings to any more, It’s just me, alone. ALL.THE.TIME. I’m starting to realize that those who are truly happy are either

A) Truly happy with their life and what they’ve made out of it.
Or
B) Truly ignorant about life and as an old saying goes “ignorance is bliss”

It’s starting to seem like people lean towards option B…

The “happiest” of people that I’ve met so far don’t know what it’s like to have depression, suicidal thoughts, triggers, anxieties, voices… Disorders, disorders, ”disorders. Then again, I’m told by people from my support group and therapy sessions that this life is “worth it.” All of their talk seems so hypocritical…

I can’t tell anyone what my plans are without getting some B.S. excuse among the lines of “It gets better” or “you need to change your thinking”, “get out of your environment.” I’ve been the same way for years now. When does any of this get better? I’ve been through therapy, taken meds, got out, explored, meet new people… I want to exit my own life and I guess all I want is for someone to just be there and try not to reason with me, and when the time comes… just be there. That’s all I really want now.

What do I have to lose when I have nothing to lose but my own mind and body? What else is left? Now that I think about it, exiting, and doing it for yourself isn’t weak… When someone tells me to think about the “survivors” I’m just like; “Have you ever thought about what their final moments were like, the intensity of those feelings they had??"

Is it even selfish to want to go all out and lose your screws? While I’m living and breathing on this earth I get treated like I’m worthless, but the minute I cut my ropes… That’s when people start caring… Seems ironic really.

Am I alone with this thinking?

Hello

I am going to make you mad right away by telling you that life is work and that a lot of the people you see and beleive are happy also deal with depression, abuse, anxiety and a raft of all kinds of other miseries. That is because life is bascially really tough. Yes, it is tougher on those with greater intelligence and sensitivities, but that ebcause life is also unfair. Ask any fool.

I am not dismissing your despair and desire to give up. Not in the least. I am just telling you that when someone tells you you need to change your way of thinking and work at getting happier they are giving good advice. Happiness doesnt come knocking at your door. Depression is soemthing that those of us who suffer from it must deal with on a daily basis and that is also just the way it is.

You say people treat you like you are worthless, but then you talk about yourself and life as is you yourself beleive you and your life are worthless! There is a connection here that you should be paying attention to.

DONT let go of your dreams. You dont want to put them into the past tense. You do have choices and can learn to make better ones. Thats that work thing again. Work at making your life what you want. Work with what you ahve and your own problems--but work at it. You'd be amazed at how changing your attitude can change your life. I recommend checking out the book Mind Over Mood. So many of the things we think we cant do anything about--it ends up that we really can.

Again, I am not dismissing your despair or depression. I have known a lot of people who have all sorts of problems and they are basically happy people and it not because of magic. You are not alone in your situation, dear heart. I am telling you to work with what you have and decide that you deserve a good life that you yourself can in very many ways determine. It wont come to you, you will make it happen yourself. And even when you are able to accomplish that, dont expect not to have some really crummy days or even weeks. That is life. Life is messy and unfair and hard. The happiest people
I know accept this as fact. Our lives and our selves are best defined by our courage to live life in spite of all this. It's no picnic, but its all any of us gets.

Take care.

Originally Posted by justafriend306

I experienced suicide as a bystander and saw first hand the pain and anguish that spiralled further and further affecting more andm7ore people. I realized then I could not do it.

I took some very good therapy. But it was meeting a very good and special person in my life to turn things around. It took quite the leap of faith to pursue this. Today i am stable and relatively content. It just happened. But it wouldn't havd had I not been open to the prospect of good.

Possible trigger:

I've experienced suicide from all sorts of angles - just never my own! My stepmother's was the 'closest,' I suppose, but I didn't see her corpse. When I saw my friends corpse, with the dark blue face, laying belly down I knew that he'd been dead for awhile. In the successful hangings that I've seen, it's the feet and ankles that take on the purple-blue color and the head and eyes have that weird bulging. I've never had any experience of personal pain and anguish or seen it experienced by others so I've never used that as a reason not to do it... more like a personally moral reason, too complex to discuss here. If I go for another 6-9 months, though, with further mental degradation, suicide may be the only way that I'm able to cope with the continuing pain.

I think that you raise a very good point, though. Particularly for younger people. You have to always be open for something good to come along. Not to the point of being ridiculous, of course. But you have to acknowledge that you're more resilient at 27 than at 57, just as you are more likely to acknowledge that at 57 you've tried more things and have more experiences to draw upon.

You persevered and you were lucky in finding both a therapy that worked for you and someone who was able to help you find some contentment and stability. I think that's wonderful and I think that's the "good enough" existence that many of us long for. Many of us are so frightfully far away from any sort of semblance of contentment that we've given up being open to anything good because we're so accustomed to the worst measures being meted out. If you've reached my age and your good or happy moments can be counted on one hand, common sense will tell you that you're not going to begin to use the other hand for the next 10 years.

Not to inject any religious talk into the discussion but I've found myself praying again. I would like to say that prayer is helping but it isn't and neither is any sort of psychotherapy. I'll get into the latter in another thread.

To say that we who continue to suffer do so only because we haven't put enough work into getting better or because we haven't persevered is like a gut punch. And then there are those who come along and suggest that we put too much effort into trying to feel well. And for those unfortunate few who pay for the mixed signals with their lives? We leave behind their masters to prattle, in unison, "If he'd only listened to me!"

That brings out the real problem: attempting to work at/try 15 different methods over a 30 year period and finding the single one that works but being denied the method because because it's slightly less efficacious when on opioids.

I'm going to hop over to the psychotherapy (or whatever) forum and see if I can get a grip on what they're supposed to be doing now.