[wisewoman]

I forget the word you all use meaning reading and not posting. However, I have been reading from daughter's puter upstairs and not posting. It's no fun here when a few posters have warned me about my foster to adopt situation. I was severely verbally and emotionally abused today at a meeting with the workers from the local child protection agency,and their contracted agency for support which I foolishly thought was confidential. Now I have had my new daughter for 14 months and have been waiting for the termination of parental rights. Her social worker has been here exactly 2 times now. This child is very difficult, She has attachment disorder, anyone relate? She abuses my dogs, feels that they come between us. Agency wants me to lock up dogs or kill them because she wants to hurt them and feels competition with them for my attention. So I have been sitting here realizing my babies were raised to be with people and to lock them away for any portion of the day is abuse to them so I sit here and wonder if I could euthanize them personally. My little girl is attaching to me and yet the agency says I am a bad placement. They were so mean. What do I say to her when I have promised her to be her forever mom? They want to take her cause she hurts animals, has choked one and I think it's wrong that she behave this way. They want me to kill the dogs or lock them up. Please remember that theses are little guys, no one is over 15 pounds except the golden doodle My husband has who is scared to death of her.

She can't help her jealousy. She is a wounded child. But I who love her and those who make the rules don't care that she wants to be with me 24/7. Her therapist has moved away and I am waiting for opening on 9/11 for new one. Therapist got it. I hate these people, this agency. They are power freaks. I was never like this when I did the same work with older people.
Today I have fantasized about killing self and other attached powers. Very sad really. All I want is to prevent more pain.

I know I have been too busy for you all with my life etc That said, this stinks. I am holding on by a string. Oh man, just speak with the other parents of this sibling group and see what %#@&#! they are throwing. That sucks about honesty and directness. I am one wounded soul. Needing to check out for a while. She needs me every waking moment.

[(JD)]

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Today I have fantasized about killing self and other attached powers. Very sad really. All I want is to prevent more pain.


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> (((WW))) Please realize that you do have control of this situation, as much as those with the agency are trying to force your hand.

If it is causing you this much distress, what they ask, what you feel you need to do, then it just isn't the right thing for you, is it?

Step back and reevaluate, please. Is there another place for the child? If she has learned that you can love her, then she will continue to learn that more than you can love her, and she can have limitless love.

It does no good to destroy things that help you deal with life, with what you like to do, that might change your attitude and ability to cope in the future.

Allow them to be right on this one. Let the child go, keep your little guys, and keep your sanity, is what I suggest. At the very least, reconsider that such conflict might be trying to tell you there is someone else you can help, maybe, instead of this one. You have helped her, maybe in ways another couldn't, but now they can pick up where you are being prevented from going.

Having thoughts like this mean this is perhaps too much for you. What does your T say? Though you T may "get" it, the T may have more words of wisdom for you. Suicidal homicide is not the answer.

[lenjan]

(((((((WW)))))) I'm sorry things are so rough for you, again and still. Please stick around, though. I need you!

Love, Candy

[bebop]

oh hon I am so sorry. I couldn't put my animals down either due to this cause. however you know from your classes we can't promise these kids they will be with us forever. I feel so bad for those kids. they go thru so much in their short little lives. (((hugs))) I do wish you all the best. my dh and I have decided not to go thru with the foster/adopt thing. I don't think I could handle it. good luck hon.

[eskielover]

This is definitely a difficult situation to be in. Reading your post brought these thoughts & questions into my mind. They aren't meant to hurt or to judge, just questions that came to my mind when I was reading.

I know when I hear things that I don't want to hear, it feels like abuse, when it is in reality an opposing view.....especially when I am emotional about the situation anyway.

The other major thing that came into my mind is that it seems to me that you could really use the dog situation to your benifit. She can learn that you will love her more if she loves your dogs & that she will definitely loose you completely if she harms them. Everyone has to learn that there are consequenses to their behaviors....it is a part of growing up. It seems to me that by getting rid of your dogs whether locked up, new homes, or put down, then she will be winning & her attachment disorder will only be reinforced & made worse. That doesn't seem like that would be looking out for her best interest?

Jealousy even if it can't be helped, has to be learned how to be controlled. By giving in, there is absolutely no learning there, only reinforcing the bad behavior. In my experiences, I always found that if we truely love someone, sometimes we have to do what is best for them & that isn't giving into the unacceptable behavior.

There is a good feeling when we are needed by someone every waking moment, but in reality that is a stress that will take its tole over even a short time. You say you are already having very bad fantasies & that may be because the situation you are in isn't right. It may not be just your anger at the powers but also your sub-conscious knows it isn't good more than you are able to realize on the outside.

Sometimes we get ourselves into situations where we can't see the forest for the trees. We need to step back & look at the whole picture & what is REALLY happening. From reading what you are saying, it doesn't sound like a healthy relationship for her, even though she loves you & you love her. There are other important things in relationships & if they aren't there also, it can do more harm than good.

Just somethings to think about......knowing I don't know the whole picture....only what I read & these are only questions that came into my mind while reading your post.

I know you will do the right thing for her & for you.....in spite of the powers that be because that is the most important thing of all. It is important however to look at things reasonably rather than with emotion.....I have always found that emotions get in my way of doing the right things sometimes. It is important to look at things clearly but look at the whole picture,

My love & prayers are with you both,
Debbie

[biiv]

its nice to see you post wisewoman even though you are in such pain. you have gotten some great advice from others. bear in mind that if the situation is putting this much strain on you that you are having harmful thoughts then you may not be able to give this child the objective care she needs. theres no doubt you love her but sometimes love means letting go too.
alternatively would it be possible to have the doggies stay somewhere else for a month or so to keep them safe until the situation can be calmed down some?
i really hope this can be worked out for everyones benefit. just please make a point of taking some time to nuture yourself.
good luck and you know you have support here whenever you need.
biiv

[Wants2Fly]

Hi Wisewoman -- I am so sorry that you are in such pain. This is a bad situation for you. I agree with Skye on this one.

[wisewoman]

To all who responded.I am not suicidal or homicidal. Children with attachment disorder do need to learn that the parent figure will drop everything to be with them in a positive way. This means holding her when she asks for it, 24/7. It means sitting with her etc.

I agree with Debbie about she can't learn about how to treat animals with kindness if we give in but this morning I caught her torturing her hamster and last I looked at her she was in shock,(hamster) She is moving tomorrow to safe home.

Why fight for the child, because it took her a long time to ask me for comfort., she is trying to attach so hard, if sh goes she is never to have a chance again. The move will likely shut her down forever and she will be even worse and not willing to give anyone a chance again.

I do think I should kill my dogs because them they can't be hurt by her or have do deal with separation from the only homes they have known. Hubby disagrees and I do too. So many thoughts.

Yes these people were abusive, my friend never met any of them and saw it. They are into power and their way and that is what my friend said. I I do it their way then we will be ok. Play their game she says and take the abuse. So I shall. But it is abuse. Make no mistakes about it. Well back to bed for me. Little one is with sibs today and overnight. I arranged because I am such a monster. errrrrr.

[(JD)]

I don't think you are a monster.
I'm glad you are not having homicidal or suicidal thoughts now.

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I do think I should kill my dogs because them they can't be hurt by her or have do deal with separation from the only homes they have known. Hubby disagrees and I do too.

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I do think I should kill my dogs

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</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Hubby disagrees and I do too

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Sorry, but I'm finding this quite confusing. Maybe it's just a typo?

Please stay in touch with your T. Bed sounds like a good idea, and I hope you find good rest. TC

[eskielover]

I do hope that with some really good rest, you will be able to clear your thoughts.

Sounds like your gut feelings are the love for your dogs & that you want them. You don't want to kill them because you even agree with your husband that you don't want to do that. The important thing is to listen to your gut feelings & your husband. He is not emotionally involved in the situation & he can see the forest for the trees. You need to listen to him right now.....or you might just make a very wrong decision that you will regret for the rest of your life.

Be careful......I;m praying that you will make correct decisions for ALL involved.
Debbie

[wisewoman]

yes, my own mixed feelings. Killing my pets, my very best friends in the world for her or not. If it shall pass that I need to do this I will do it myself. Now. I do not wish to, ever.....................

[(JD)]

((WW)) I recall you suffocating a cat yourself, is that right or do I have you confused with someone else? I think it was old and ailing and you didn't have the money for the vet?

Killing your pets doesn't sound like a logical solution to me. Doesn't your spouse have a say in this matter? Wouldn't that affect him negatively also?

Who is deciding that this is what you "need" to do? What about the humane society, or a rescue organization? But even so, wouldn't their absence be negative to you?

I've read about how pets somehow can find the sensitivity within troubled people. If the child can't learn to care about the life of a pet in how she handles it etc, well, I wonder if she's in the right place for her severity of disorders. You had pets when you brought her into the home, imo, if you lived alone then that would be one thing (but still not to kill the animals but to remove them) but you don't live alone, but have a spouse. Also,the pets were there first and they rely upon you. (i.e. you knew you had pets when you did this.) They had no say in your bringing a troubled child in, yet they are going to suffer for that decision? Something isn't clicking for me, sorry.

I would hope that before you do anything that you truly listen to those giving you counsel, namely your spouse and your therapist. As long as your feelings are mixed, you probably shouldn't kill anything, imo.

[debbie_tabor]

with Sky

[Greenleaves]

I'm going to have to disagree with what most people have said. I feel so strongly about this that I couldn't sleep so I got up to type this up.

I think that if the child loves you and you love her, you should treat her like she is your own flesh and blood. Would a mother get rid of her child just because she hurt the family pet? Who is more important here? You pets or you own flesh and blood?

But, I must also say that the child's behaviour is unacceptable and she must be disciplined. You should NOT have to kill your dogs, but if she really cannot stop abusing them you must find loving homes for your dogs. For goodness sake, don't kill them. I'm sure the dogs love you, but they too can learn to love another owner.

You daughter on the other hand, needs you right now. You should do what a real mother would do, discipline and teach the child in a way that will help her in this society, but also show her unconditional love. Show her you will never ever leave her, no matter what she does.

That child is dying inside. If you could save the life of a child by sacrificing 2 animals I think you should. I also believe that she may never recover from being abandoned and let down again. If I had a child and my chld's life could be saved by killing several animals, I would, however in this case you don't even need to kill them. Again, I emphasize, please DO NOT KILL your dogs.

I truly believe it is wrong to kill your dogs. Do you think suicide is right? If not, why do you think your dogs should be killed? Suffering is a part of life, all beings must suffer at some point. We cannot protect them from that. Beside, I truly do not believe your dogs would "suffer" that much if placed in a different home.

[wisewoman]

You know that I am putting out feelings here, thoughts. I suffer for my dogs and my child. I anger that she hurts them. I know that at least one of them could be re-housed but but what about the others. They should not have to suffer loss and sadness because of me. Could I actually do this? Probably not. I love these guys and hubby and I are making plans about what would need to happen to keep them safe. We are installing special locks on my door she can't open and we are making a new insulated kennel for them. Still I feel a guilt knowing they have had the run of the house and now we do this to them. I am evewn looking for a couch for the basement for the so that we can have a sitting area with them there. After I just gave 2 away.

I put the cat to sleep as I have experienced the fear that animals go through with a stranger, a vet. It is awful. She was quite near death and I made it quicker so she not suffer.

Greenleaves, I too believe this child will not have another chance. Her harming of animals is just getting worse as she becomes more jealous and attached to me. This is the only reason I am suffering so, the plight of the child. She loves me, she called to say goodnight at 9:00. I want what is best for her, as an adult I am ready to suffer. And really, truly, I could not kill my dogs. Wouldn't happen. Just spewing I guess. I AM IN PAIN. No fun this kind. Wish I only had me to wallow about.

[Bethsway]

If you kill your animals...that sure is sending the wrong message to your daughter...! I think the best thing in this situation is finding new owners for your animals...dogs can get used to new people who love them!!
I understand your daughter must come first for now! But teach to be humane to animals...not to kill them!!

[sabby]

((((((((((((((((((wisewoman))))))))))))))))))

How my heart goes out to you and your family right now. What a difficult situation you are all in. There are no easy answers that's for sure.

The world could sure use more wonderful people like you who are willing to take a child into their home and care for them as their own, especially when that child has emotional issues and who's behaviors are so difficult. You and your husband are angels.

Is there any way you can have a special area for your beloved pets to be so they are not injured by your daughter? A penned in area outside? A spare room? I know it may seem a bit like punishment for them to be cooped up, but if it's for their own safety, it may be the only solution until your daughter can slowly learn to accept them into her life.

There are ways of helping children learn to share the individuals that they are needing and demanding so much from. I'm sure you will do your best to help that happen. Maybe getting her a plant to care for....slowly integrating any kind of living thing into her world that she can equate needing care to may help her understand.

Is it possible for your husband to help in the care department of the animals? Obviously you don't ever want to leave her alone with them at any time. Maybe in time you can integrate a pup with you and the child to have playtime together. Showing her how to play nicely, how to love and accept love from the animal.

I pray you can find some kind of solution to your problems here. I would hate to see you have to get rid of your beloved pets. I think that would cause some hard feelings towards your daughter and right now, that would not be a good thing for any of you. I wish you all well!

Love & Hugs
sabby

[wisewoman]

I guess I don't think it matters much but I cleaned basement and put a rug down in there with doggie beds, food, water and toys. They have all they need except us. We can also lock them all in outdoor kennel or bedroom. They are crying so much right now to come up but she is here so alone they must be. All of this and the state will make up reasons to take her anyway. So much not what hse needs and wants.

[Bethsway]

I keep thinking of you and how hard it must be...I am sending good vibes to you...and hope everything turns out okay...I know you love them all!!!

[sabby]

WW, is there a CASA/gal involved with your child's case or any type of guardian ad litem? If so, you should be able to touch base with them and see what they will suggest to a judge. I do believe that the state cannot arbitrarily remove a child from anywhere without first getting a judge to approve the removal (aside from a life/death situation). I could be wrong, but I believe it also stands for foster homes as well as natural family homes. I know these kids are wards of the state, but they still need permission from the courts to move children.

Hugsss
sabby

[nothemama8]

ww, if you need home for pets , we would be here for you
Angie

[wisewoman]

Thanks, I love my dogs greatly. Unfortunately my little dacshund puppy went to the vet tonight at 2:00 and was found to have this congenital deforminty where her esophogus was very large thus the vomiting of food and dehydration. There was nothing I could do except put her down. I am sure the state will be happy now.

[sabby]

(((((((((((((((((((((((((( wisewoman )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I'm so sorry for your loss hon. I'm sure it was very difficult for you to let go of your little love.


sabby

[biiv]

im so sorry wisewoman. that is an appalling thing to have to face. i admire your courage in being able to cope with it.
((((((((((((wisewoman))))))))))) if you would like.