[okiedokie]

Hi All,
I'm sorry to postpone, but I am ill with strep.

Perhaps those who are interested in learning about DBT could read about "mindfullness" as this is where we will begin.

The authors I recommend are Thich Nacht Hahn or Jon Kabat-Zinn. I'm sure you can find lots of info about this online as well.

I look forward to seeing you next week when, hopefully, I am again well!
Take good care,
Okie

[mandazzle]

Oh my gosh I have a CD from Jon about mindfulness, it's amazing.

[SeptemberMorn]

Can someone explain DBT to me? I sure would be grateful.

[SeptemberMorn]

I'd really like an answer to my question, please. I know some of you know what it is and how it's done.

[PlanningtoLive]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect...vioral_therapy

Tomi, here is a link that explains what it is.......my old T wanted me to get involved in it, but I decided against it. Hope it helps.



Mary Alice

[SeptemberMorn]

Thanks, Mary Alice. I think I see why you didn't get into it. Don't think I'll suggest it to whom I thought of suggesting it to.

Too bad religion is involved with it.

[Rapunzel]

I really like DBT, the more I learn about it. I'm learning a lot from Marsha Linehan's book, and posted some of what I learned on my blog. But, yeah, a lot of it is based on philosophy and Zen Buddhism. So maybe DBT isn't an appropriate topic for the forums. That's really too bad, because it has a lot to offer. But it might also be offensive since DBT does really push towards change and recovery and not staying stuck, and those are uncomfortable concepts for a lot of people too.

((((((( Tomi )))))))) - I hope you know I'm not picking on you, just rambling about some connections that your post helped me to realize.

[SeptemberMorn]

I don't see a single thing that I could possibly interpret as picking on me, Sweetheart!

I truly appreciate your input to my question.

[Danialla]

I am really glad that you will be offering a DBT skills group.

I have found DBT to be a nice workable combinations of different therapies out there, and feel it is a good fit for most people. Like any type of therapy, DBT gives you the skills to help you manage your illness, but you still need to work at using those skills.

DBT does work on mindfulness, which I believe is used or referred to by zen Buddhist. I really feel it has little to do with religion, but more to do with being in the moment. Not looking at the what-ifs (either past or future), but focusing on the here and now, much easier said than done I know!.

For me, "Mindfulness" is the hardest aspect of DBT to put into my daily life. I tend to let my emotions take over...... But I continue to try, and 7 out of 10 times it works. That is up from when I was first introduce to the concept and was only able to but it into play 1 out of 10 times. But I'm working on it.

And that brings me to a pet peeve that I have been trying to be "mindful" about...... I really believe that most, if not all people on this site are working to get better. I believe that joining a site like this is a step in the right direction, and a big step for most.

People here are searching for ways to help them cope. Whether it is a loved one with mental illness or themselves, it takes work to move ahead, and I can honestly say in the almost 3 yrs. I have been here, I have not seen one poster who I felt didn't want to get better.

To post, or even imply, that this site does not encourage positive change in people is ludicrous, and down right wrong.

And to continue to post, or imply, that some people are just stuck and don't want to get better, well I would just ask....... Why continue to post? Who is the one stuck?

Everyone needs to work on some aspect of themselves, everyone has room to move forward. I would suspect that even Doc John looks at his life as a work in progress and continues to work on himself and his relationships. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong Doc)

I don't think anyone has it "all together", and I feel everyone on this site is working to improve themselves and their relationships with others. DBT might be a good place to learn some skills to make that work a bit easier..

Take care everyone and continue to old your heads up! We all matter!

[Mouse_]

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Rapunzel said:
But it might also be offensive since DBT does really push towards change and recovery and not staying stuck, and those are uncomfortable concepts for a lot of people too.

.

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Rather harsh.

[splitimage]

I'm looking forward to learning more about DBT, I know we used some DBT exercises when I was in the psych hospital last summer and I thought they were pretty good. And I love mindfullness. It was taught in both the rehab I went to and in the psych hospital and I find it helps me intensely. I have midnfullness meditation CD''s from kabat - zinn that I love. I just don't have enough time to lsiten to them as I'd like now that I'm back working.

--splitimage

[eskielover]

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Mouse_ said:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Rapunzel said:
But it might also be offensive since DBT does really push towards change and recovery and not staying stuck, and those are uncomfortable concepts for a lot of people too.

.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Rather harsh.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Sadly, it may be harsh.....but how true it is!!!! I know my husband for one is one of those people who says they are who they are & their personality is what it is & there is no way it's going to change because it's who they are......no matter how bad it's screwing up their life......I am sure that those words coming from my husband aren't that different than millions of others who feel the same way.

People who can't figure out even where to start on changing or what to start changing & when therapy only reinforces their own thinking rather than challenging their thinking.......& they aren't involved in anything else in their life that challenges their thinking........they are stuck & that's just the facts.....whether it's harsh or not.....reality is what it is.

Debbie

[Danialla]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Rapunzel said:
I really like DBT, the more I learn about it. I'm learning a lot from Marsha Linehan's book, and posted some of what I learned on my blog. But, yeah, a lot of it is based on philosophy and Zen Buddhism. So maybe DBT isn't an appropriate topic for the forums. That's really too bad, because it has a lot to offer. But it might also be offensive since DBT does really push towards change and recovery and not staying stuck, and those are uncomfortable concepts for a lot of people too.

((((((( Tomi )))))))) - I hope you know I'm not picking on you, just rambling about some connections that your post helped me to realize.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Religion is religion, and should not be discussed on mental health boards because YES, it makes some people uncomfortable.

To say that DBT may not be appropriate for this mental health board because it encourages people towards recovery, is to paint with a very broad brush, and to imply that most people here are not here to get better.

I disagree, and would sincerely ask that statements like that not be placed in what is to be a supportive environment. If you feel like that, and you know others that feel like that as well, as I suspect all of you do....... Could you all please discuss it in PM, amongst yourselves?

*Edited to clarify that this response was to Eskie's post, but I was using Rapunzel's post as a reference for my response. Sorry for the mix-up.

[Mouse_]

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eskielover said:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Mouse_ said:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Rapunzel said:
But it might also be offensive since DBT does really push towards change and recovery and not staying stuck, and those are uncomfortable concepts for a lot of people too.

.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Rather harsh.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Sadly, it may be harsh.....but how true it is!!!! I know my husband for one is one of those people who says they are who they are & their personality is what it is & there is no way it's going to change because it's who they are......no matter how bad it's screwing up their life......I am sure that those words coming from my husband aren't that different than millions of others who feel the same way.

People who can't figure out even where to start on changing or what to start changing & when therapy only reinforces their own thinking rather than challenging their thinking.......& they aren't involved in anything else in their life that challenges their thinking........they are stuck & that's just the facts.....whether it's harsh or not.....reality is what it is.

Debbie

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I dont recogninse my recovery from your statements. I am in therapy and do not see myself as stuck, infact I see myself as working extremely hard through therapy. I think people who have had uncomfortable pasts are afraid at trusting something else. I dont see that as somethign that should be punished? I see that as a starting point. I'm sure your reality seems just that, but I wonder what vision you see it through? because yoru reality doesn't match mine? sometimes projection makes perseption? I personally have nothing against DBT, I dont find it deep enought for my issues, but I dont wish to accuse anyone of wanting to stay stuck, I see them as trying to surive and frozen in terror and thats a very scary place to be. If DBT leaves the attitude I am begining to read here then I'd question its effectiveness??

[sabby]

Please lets keep this thread in the vein it was meant by the OP. Okie was stating that she cannot do the weekly chat because she is ill and hopes to resume it next week.

Any discussion of DBT skills, benefits and/or other issues should be taken to the Psychotherapy Forum. Thanks!

(((((((((((((okie))))))))))) Hope you are feeling better soon!!


sabby

[Danialla]

Mouse, I can say honestly that my responses have nothing to do with anything you have said regarding DBT. In fact I had to go back and see what you had said....

I am just tired of people painting with a broad brush and implying that if others are not using the tools that they are to get healthy, than they must not really want to get healthy in the first place. That couldn't be more wrong.

DBT, like anything else will help some and not others. LIFE is like that.... it doesn't mean you don't "want" to get better, just because you don't use it, or any other specifc thing.

I firmly believe that most people want to move forward, it is easier for some than others, but that does not make "the others" wrong. And then they're the people who think they are farther along than they are, but that does not make them always right.

We need to work on ourselves, not pass judgement on others. IN MY VERY STRONG, yet humble, OPINION

[Rapunzel]

Thanks for the discussion on my comments. Before more people get upset or misinterpret what I'm really trying to say, let me just clarify a bit. It might be hard to get the intended meaning from that since I used a lot of sarcasm, and that's harder to detect in print.

I actually like DBT quite a bit, and I'm not really attacking DBT. But I would like people to realize that there are elements of DBT that might make some people uncomfortable, and also that religion is involved in the philosophy and theoretical basis for DBT. Meditation and mindfulness are religious practices. Of course each person who learns them may use them in their own way and assign meaning to them as they choose. But isn't that true of any religious practices? You choose how you practice religion and what meaning it has for you. Why should Eastern religious practices be venerated and religions that are more familiar to most of us be shunned? The only difference is that one is less recognized as religion by most people here.

Regarding change and the discomfort of being challenged, there are many here who are actively working toward change and who set a steady example of making the effort to improve. Mouse, I hope you know that I really admire all the growth and change that you share with us here. What I hoped to point out was that DBT isn't comfortable for some people, and change and being challenged are so uncomfortable for a lot here that quite often there is a very vocal group that protests when anything is challenged. And I don't think that we really should sanitize the forums to make sure that everything that makes someone uncomfortable is eliminated. I think that we should be about change here. My point is really that certain groups do protest that certain topics should not be discussed here, but those topics are an important part of life and healing and mental health for a lot of us. The only difference is that certain controversial subjects actually do get eliminated because they make some people uncomfortable, and others are tolerated even though there is probably at least as much discomfort for some people. I think that discomfort is often an essential element of change. What else would motivate us enough to do something so scary as to change ourselves?

[Rapunzel]

What time is the DBT chat? Most chats are hard for me to make it to because my schedule is horrendous, but I really would be interested in this one.

[Mouse_]

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Danialla said:
Mouse, I can say honestly that my responses have nothing to do with anything you have said regarding DBT. In fact I had to go back and see what you had said....

I am just tired of people painting with a broad brush and implying that if others are not using the tools that they are to get healthy, than they must not really want to get healthy in the first place. That couldn't be more wrong.

DBT, like anything else will help some and not others. LIFE is like that.... it doesn't mean you don't "want" to get better, just because you don't use it, or any other specifc thing.

I firmly believe that most people want to move forward, it is easier for some than others, but that does not make "the others" wrong. And then they're the people who think they are farther along than they are, but that does not make them always right.

We need to work on ourselves, not pass judgement on others. IN MY VERY STRONG, yet humble, OPINION

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I wasn't refering to your post. %#@&#! now I'm getting confused LOL!, infact I agree with your posts.

[sabby]

Rap, the chats are scheduled for 7:30pm EST Thursdays.


sabby

[pachyderm]

Rap did not say that people here are uncomfortable with change and recovery.

[pachyderm]

> Meditation and mindfulness are religious practices.

Now I will quarrel with that! Some religions may utilize them, but my idea of "mindfulness" has nothing "religious" about it. It just makes good psychological sense.

[Danialla]

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pachyderm said:
> Meditation and mindfulness are religious practices.

Now I will quarrel with that! Some religions may utilize them, but my idea of "mindfulness" has nothing "religious" about it. It just makes good psychological sense.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I very much agree!

[sabby]

Thanks for everyone's input....let's move the discussion to another thread (not hijacking) and into the Psychotherapy Forum.

Okie wanted folks to know she was ill and couldn't do the chat....so I will now be locking this thread.