Is my daughter a narcissist?

After the third unprovoked tirade against me in the last five years, I am convinced my daughter has a personality disorder, possibly narcissistic. On each occasion, we were getting along fine prior to her "attack". I'm completely baffled, as are her two siblings. She accused me of never doing anything or giving anything to her or her children (as opposed to her younger sister), how many times I've hurt her, how I had failed her as a mother, and her perception of everything I've ever done to her over the years. Whenever I or anyone try to explain my side, she will not consider any viewpoints or feelings other than her own, misinterprets everything, and becomes enraged. She is right and I am wrong, and trying to defend myself is a waste of time.
The last tirade happened after a pleasant family evening together. The next day, she sent a message playing the pity card, how no one cares about her, how no one does anything for her. She wants to cut all ties because I obviously care more about her sister (there was nothing that could have provoked this; her sister had not been there or even mentioned). I feel emotionally manipulated by her "poor me" tactics; I've always forgiven her even though she has never apologized. I do eveything I can to appease her, and try to avoid any topics or actions that might upset her. I never criticize her, nor have I ever mentioned the numerous times she has hurt me deeply by things she's said or done. She lacks empathy, and doesn't see how her actions and words can hurt someone else, even though they often as the same as those she accuses others of.
She obviously has forgotten all the things I've done and given her (and her children). She spends lavishly and has everything she could possibly need or want, and gives her children and grandchildren everything they want as well. Her children are selfish and unappreciative as a result; they take everything they can from their parents and others, giving nothing in return. She equates love to the amount of money or time she gives or receives rather than spending quality time with another by showing interest, appreciation, and compassion. She has a devoted husband who does everything she asks, apparently never contradicting her on anything. She enjoys having control of everyone and every situation.
On the other hand, her sister is a single mother struggling to make ends meet, who is a wildlife rehabilitator who also rescues and finds homes for dogs and cats. I bring her small things, something I see she is out of and needs, including cat and dog food (she has a cat that I rescued). She is always appreciative; a compassionate loving daughter who is a joy to be around. Her brother gives her things on occasion as well and also enjoys her company. However, older daughter becomes enraged whenever anyone gives her sister anything. Her youngest child, however, has most of his rent paid by her among other things. That apparently is different.
She is always right, everyone else is wrong. She doesn't seek the truth or the opinions of others from newspapers, TV, or the internet, and so her concept of reality remains unchanged. Her children have followed suit; her grandchildren are being home-schooled by her daughter, and so the cycle continues. She has never asked if needed anything (I'm retired living on Social Security) and rarely visits or calls as her siblings do (who have never accused me of not having done anything for them). She is always involved in projects which encourage the admiration of others, and admits that she has to keep busy all the time (sometimes late into the night), doing things that will bring her more admiration and "love". I think she does all this to avoid inner reflection and open communication with others. She seems preoccupied with her image to others; she takes great pride in her appearance, always perfectly dressed and coiffed when in public.
She goes back and forth from telling me that she loves me to how I've wronged her, and seems to enjoy hurting me. She doesn't do this to her siblings because they would stand up to her, whereas I forgive her, even though she never apologizes, tell her I love her, and go on. This time, I will not make contact with her again, she's hurt me enough, I'm done. I've come to the realization that this is not my fault; her accusations are without merit and her demands unrealistic. I might add that her father, who died bitter and alone after destroying every relationship he ever had, including that with his mother, children, and two wives, was very much like this as well. Are these the traits of a narcissist?

((((SadMom)))) Welcome to PC. I am sorry you are struggling. Instead of focusing on your daughter's behavior (and trying to find labels for her), perhaps it would be useful for you to speak with your T about you and what you are struggling with. Gaining tools to deal with people that are difficult or trigger us is the best gift we can give ourselves.

Wishing you all the best. Please let us know how you are doing.

Thanks for your reply. Who is my T that you mentioned? I am no longer struggling about this, however, maybe the first time it happened but, as I said in my post, I'm done. I have too many other problems/concerns in my life right now to waste any more time worrying about this. That seems harsh for a mother, but I've done everything I know to do and I have to distance myself for self-preservation.

It would be extremely helpful to me, however, to have a label for her behavior--if not narcissistic, at least a "personality disorder" for the following reasons: (1) I would know that this is not in any way my fault and there's no need to feel guilty for the way I raised her, especially since her siblings are nothing like her (but her father was); (2) It would open discussion with my other children about her "disorder" and how we should treat it as such instead of being angry; (3) If it is a disorder, it's not completely her fault either, but just the way she is, and we should feel compassion rather than anger (while keeping our distance); and (4) She probably treats others in her life as badly as she does me; knowing I'm not her only victim is some consolation, and the only way she would seek help would be if the others balked at her manipulation.

If this is a disorder, she might not even be aware of how her behavior affects others and that she's not the only one who feels hurt. It would help her siblings and me try to understand and feel some compassion.

Hi Sadmom (sorry about that! your T = your Therapist)

What you wrote does not sound harsh. Everyone has a boundary, a threshold in which they can meet and then after that, it's over. done. Certain behavior is no longer tolerated.

And I understand that you wish to have a "label", but I personally am not a T , have not met with your daughter or heard from her (her pov), (), AND am reading only one pov. It would not be fair-minded, healthy or wise of me to start throwing things out based on a guess (even educated). I don't believe even a trained, professional T would start throwing things out there for you simply to placate you and the rest of the family.

More importantly, I also know how incredibly awful it is to be labeled. It is extremely damaging and it's also very cruel IMO. Your daughter - or any human being - is not a label that you can or should slap on her, so you feel something humanlike (compassion, for instance).

I do hope very much that she will reach her "rock-bottom" (whatever that is for her) and begin to look inward and seek help for herself. I am sure it is just as painful for her to deal with the family and to lose your relationships.

That said, I would encourage you and your children -her siblings - (and whomever else is frustrated to the point of throwing hands up and walking away) to focus on yourselves more and to look inward so you can feel better.

I dont think this is really about your daughter. It is about how you and her siblings think / act / respond to behavior for which you have no (healthy) coping mechanisms/tools.

Best wishes to you.

I did not ask for advice. I actually thought the purpose of this forum was to find others who had similar situations with a daughter/son/family member who could understand and feel your pain from their own personal experience, could share some of their experiences and what they have done about/ learned from it, and offer some comfort just by knowing you are not alone. I did try to do a search for similar situations, but the only one I found was from 2009 and I believe that thread had been closed. I would never attempt to give anyone advice unless I had had a similar experience, knew someone who fit the description described, and could share what worked for me. Since it is apparent you have no personal experience with this, I don't see how you feel you are qualified to give advice. To give you the benefit of the doubt, I believe you meant well, but I felt like I'd been kicked in the teeth with your cold clinical reply. I hope you do better with your other thousands of posts, not take the role of therapist, and stick to those which you know something about. I will not post any more on this subject.

Firstly, a disclaimer ... No one on this site or any website can diagnose your daughter. It would even be unethical for a therapist to diagnose her based only on your information. They would have to see her personally. And, if they did, they wouldn't be allowed to tell you anything about her diagnosis.

Secondly, the DSM-V is omitting Narcissistic Personality Disorder, so it's unlikely she'd be diagnosed as a narcissist even if she saw a therapist.

I have had experience with a narcissist. He was my father and I lived under him for fourteen years. What I did: I left. He's dead to me. What I learned: How to function on my own.

Well, obviously a nice person who rescues cats and dogs and wildlife is much nicer and more pleasant to be with than a well-coiffed brat who demands money and attention, is inconsiderate, etc. etc.. The label does not really matter - she is not a product of your faulty upbringing because her siblings turned out fine. You have nothing to blame yourself for. So that part of your request is easily taken care of.

Hi ((((Sadmom)))) You actually did ask for advice (you wanted a DX based on your POV, and l wrote very nicely that it would not be responsible to provide one). Members do not Dx each other nor do we encourage that. It's damaging.

And as with other members here, I have had my fair share of experience with these types of behaviors and choose to not feed into it by adding labels.

The only person that needs to know the Dx is is your daughter. If she wants to share it with you that is her choice.

The only person / people that need to know how to deal with a behavior (they are not able to cope with) is to look inward and gain more tools. And to come to PC for support. It's a great place.

The goal is to not continue to point fingers and look for excuses to scapegoat someone else. There are fantastic people here.

Or, we have the choice of picking up and just leaving the situation. Which clearly you have done. In both cases.

I wish you the best.

(If I sound like a T to you, sorry about that. I have been here for almost a year now, and I have learned how to be supportive, take responsiblity and not judge others. And if someone triggers us, we stay away from that person / member and then focus on what REALLY is bothering us. You reached out for help and I was helping the best I could with what I learned).

Rose

Hey, sounds like your daughter does have some issues that she needs to deal with. From what you wrote, she has it out for her sister and you, but not really for her brother. I'm sure it must be emotionally exhausting dealing with such temper tantrums and outbursts. She seems to want all your time, attention and money and the best way to get those is to guilt trip you into handing them over. I think it would be best if you distanced yourself. If she misses her family, she'll find a way to apologise and behave better. If not, you're spared further heartache.

From what I've read your daughter has some PD probably. My sister was diagnosed with npd by 2 different therapists..but by proxy. She'll never admit there's anything wrong with her so I doubt she'll ever go to one. Npd usually has a low self esteem with a high ego. Like, my sister sent every card to me with no other words but "from the world's most beautiful girl". However, she has body image issues (she's big built) and starts ranting at thin mannequins or pointing and laughing at thin pretty girls. Her sense of self worth is only intact as long as something around her doesn't challenge it. If your daughter also displays a high ego, then she may have npd.

I disagree with those who say labelling doesn't matter. It does. It helps you understand and recognize her behaviour. If you wish to help her get therapy, you can. However, I read on another forum that if you have an npd in your life, run. I agree. I'm badly scarred by my sister. It was like living with a black hole. I saw her use and abuse everyone she met and enjoy their final humiliation before moving on. I shudder for the people she's going to meet in the future.

As for this forum, I've seen more members that are dealing with some PD than victims of people afflicted with the bad PDs, so they're more into avoiding labelling and looking inward. Victims usually are helped by labelling and by a sympathetic ear. You have mine if you want

If labeling serves some useful purpose for victims, sure, by all means.

Sadmom, when I read your post, my heart went out to you as I can empathise with very much with what you are saying.

My ex seems to have many narcissistic traits and my daughter has been displaying more and more of those lately. When you describe what you have been through, it sounds very similar to my own situation. It's very painful and it's a really horrible place to me. This person is flesh and blood and yet being in contact with them is so painful.

It almost feels as though constantly being in a no-win situation. If you do a lot for them, it's never enough but if you do something, it's twisted and turned into something it's not and you can almost begin to question your own sanity.

I think what makes it worse if there are other people around them with narcisstic traits who just keep backing up their distorted version of events and reality.

You then begin to wonder whether no matter how close genetically they might be to you, whether it is better to not have any contact at all. It's a horrible place to me and it's like one long on-going bereavement, that you never quite get closure of.

Narcissism is one of those personality disorders, that is complicated.

If, with all you know about your daughter, you'd know better how her personality is. If it helps give you solace, to the fact you've needed to step back from her, then finding out more about the various personalities can be helpful. There's a good deal of literature out there, that helps one learn to communicate with someone with narcissism. It helps explain why people behave the way they do, and how to not be victimized by them.

If this is your goal, to learn how to deal with your daughter, that is very different than your other two children, sure, why not, learning more about how to deal with others isn't such a bad idea.

The need for admiration, struck me. I'm trying, posthumously to resolve something from my past. And I came to this board, this morning trying to find a thread I'd been involved with, and someone had written that they could write a book, from their own experiences, on narcissism and they'd mentioned a book, and I wanted to find the title and this thread caught my eye, because in order to resolve something that is narcissistic related, and stop getting into little heated moments with people that remind me of my mom, I felt finding that book, granted there are many, was the best start.

Knowing about narcissism, where will this lead you? There's overt and covert narcissism and there seems to be a spectrum, just like with healthy people and I just hope you find the answers you are looking for and know that you are not alone when dealing with people in your life that are unappreciative, yet, always looking for adoration and thrive on knowing that everyone 'loves' them(or so the reflection would appear).

She said something really 'biting' didn't she?? And it's hard to pinpoint, isn't it? (asking from experience, wracking my brain to remember something painful that was mentioned and then triggered by someone else. it was my mom)