[chromegirl]

We are four years out of our marriage, with two preteen kids. I still have to deal with him a lot.

When we were married (and probably beforehand), he had many affairs. Most online, but some physical. I probably don't know the half of it. In the end he left me for someone he'd reconnected with from his past. He'd ALWAYS gaslighted me. Told me I was paranoid and mistrusting and that "trust was a choice", and that I'd simply chosen to not trust him. He made me feel crazy. Occasionally, when he would be caught red-handed and couldn't deny the affair, he'd profess that he was "sick", that he loved me, and please, don't leave me, he would say. He feigned support during my recovery, but of course found out he was having affairs then too.

He's always spent a ton of money on himself...expensive clothing, hobbies, courses so that he could 'find himself'...while I was trying to manage the household budget and sometimes didn't have enough to pay bills. He is a professional with a well-paying job so he always felt entitled, and probably thought of it as "his" money, especially since I was at home with the kids for many years when they were younger.

Eventually I had a total breakdown. Debilitating anxiety and depression, for the better part of a year. He feigned support during my recovery, but of course found out he was having affairs then too.

I slowly, with the help of a lot of therapy and a great pdoc, recovered from the debilitating anxiety and depression being with him for over 20 years cost me.

The day he left me, I felt instantly better. I was free and off the crazy train, at last.

Since then I have worked really hard to maintain a decent coparenting relationship with him, despite all the hurt he has caused me. His parenting style is best described as benign neglect. He doesn't emotionally engage with the kids, because really, he can't emotionally engage with anyone. The only frisson of feeling he seems to get is with one of the many women he is juggling at any given time. He has admitted to me that maybe this is the only way he can "feel."

Some recent events over the last year have really pushed things though to a crisis level between us. He's engaged in risky behavior that has endangered me and the kids, and lied to me about it. I do not trust him. Yet he tries to rationalize it and paint himself as the victim.

The scary part for me is to suddenly realize that despite the fact that I thought I'd gotten away from him, I've still been enmeshed with him for too long. I believed him because I wanted to, for the sake of an easy, cordial relationship. But he has squandered by goodwill over and over to the point of endangering me.

I confronted him over something recently and he lashed back in hostility, rather than admit that he'd made such glaring mistakes and lapses in judgement. He did this because all he cares about is himself and satisfying his needs, which I see now as totally narcissistic.

I guess I am in a bit of shock. Realizing that he is probably, and has always been, a narcissist through and through. My challenge now (and question to you all who have had to deal with narcissists) is how do I manage a relationship with him? I have to because he is the father of my kids, else I would happily cut him out of my life completely.

Any advice from those who've BTDT is muchly appreciated...

[Jannaku]

Hi there. I believe that your ex is a narcissist. Everything that you have described fits perfectly with someone who has this disorder. Managing a relationship with a narc is very difficult. As you yourself would know, they really only think of themselves and anything that serves their own best interests. Anything which is perceived as a threat to them (and that would be you) is dealt with accordingly. They have a very impressive repertoire of behaviours to deal with this ranging from outright rage, hostility and aggressiveness to highly manipulative techniques such as rewriting history, denying, projecting, etc, etc. There is one thing a narcissist hates and that is to be criticised. Rightly or wrongly, to them it translates directly into a threat to their over inflated and grandiose sense of self. They will never, ever, ever admit to any shortcomings, mistakes, errors or lapses of judgement because by doing this it would challenge their false self. Lashing out in a hostile way is typical of the type of reaction you would get, so don't be too alarmed because this is the way it is and it will always be. They are highly toxic people, capable of inflicted great harm onto those around them so be thankful that you are no longer in an intimate relationship with him. Unfortunately, you do still have to deal with him because of the children and that puts you in a very difficult situation. Maintain your boundaries and do not let him cross them. Obviously minimising contact would be the best solution, but failing that be prepared for more bad behaviour. They typically don't get better, they get worse. Read up on Narcissistic Personality Disorder and empower yourself with knowledge. The more you begin to understand the complexity of the disorder and the psychology behind it, the more empowered you will feel. Never underestimate them either. Their behaviour constitutes abuse in many forms - emotional, psychological, financial, etc, etc. and they have an uncanny way of getting inside your head like a spiritual cancer.

The best advice I can give you is to have minimal contact. Keep contact as brief and focused as possible. Try not to buy into arguments or the like. Don't bother arguing anything with them because it is a total no-win situation and you will just exhaust yourself. Try to remember above all that they are not rational or logical and that they do not and will not act like a "normal" person. They usually have no genuine empathy, caring, concern or the like. It is just an act. The only thing they are concerned with are themselves. It's not going to be easy but just remember as the years go by and your children mature the dynamics will slowly change and you will slowly be able to distance yourself from this emotional vampire. All the best.

[Thorn Bird]

I would say by all that you have said that your husband probably has a personality disorder and is probably NPD - they have a well known record for lying and cheating - with them it is all about supply and what happens is we become their secondary supply and they are still out their topping it up with primary supply - if you can keep away you really are best off out of it - he will really hurt you albeit unintentionally - he needs to recognise he has a problem before there could be any chance! Love and luck to you xXx

[chromegirl]

Thank you both for your replies. It is a bit of a shock to realize that it took me over 20 years to fully realize it, but there you have it.

I am very much coming to the realization that the best way forward is to keep contact concise and limited, only insofar as we have to deal with the kids. Detach, detach, detach.

Jannaku- you nailed one thing about him that I didn't realize was narcissism in action...his lashing out and defensiveness at the faintest hint of criticism. I learned over the years that I just could not criticize him at all, not even in the most well-meaning, gentle way. To get what I needed from him (for example, some simple help around the house...mowing the lawn...and this from a guy who did NOTHING in the home) I learned I had to use humour, or cajole. I had to 'manage' him,in a sense, and if I wasn't up to it I just sucked it up and did it myself.

Man I am so glad to be not with him anymore.

[iljct]

I am new to the forum so please bear with me if I say something that might be inappropriate. I also am very ignorant about bipolar and some of the other disorders mentioned. My boyfriend of 3 years is the reason I am here. From the little bit I have read here it sounds like he has some of these. I feel bad that I haven't been more proactive in researching this sooner in the relationship. A lot of times I believed him when he said I was the problem. Lately, I suppose I am wising up and I don't fall for that so much anymore although I can't tell him that.

[iljct]

I am confused about which my boyfriend's disorders are as well. You mentioned, is your ex a narcissist. I am also questioning this. My boyfriend was diagnosed Bipolar II, and I am finally catching on to what I think might be narcissistic behavior. Is this part of the bipolar or is it an additional diagnosis, and how do you tell the difference?

Originally Posted by chromegirl

Told me I was paranoid and mistrusting and that "trust was a choice", and that I'd simply chosen to not trust him.

That is so disturbingly familiar for me.

[waiting4]

Originally Posted by chromegirl

Thank you both for your replies. It is a bit of a shock to realize that it took me over 20 years to fully realize it, but there you have it.

I am very much coming to the realization that the best way forward is to keep contact concise and limited, only insofar as we have to deal with the kids. Detach, detach, detach.

Jannaku- you nailed one thing about him that I didn't realize was narcissism in action...his lashing out and defensiveness at the faintest hint of criticism. I learned over the years that I just could not criticize him at all, not even in the most well-meaning, gentle way. To get what I needed from him (for example, some simple help around the house...mowing the lawn...and this from a guy who did NOTHING in the home) I learned I had to use humour, or cajole. I had to 'manage' him,in a sense, and if I wasn't up to it I just sucked it up and did it myself.

Man I am so glad to be not with him anymore.

One good rule of thumb I've found with the Narc is when they have been criticized and it causes narcissist injury (fancy way of saying it hurt their feelings or the place where feelings would be if there were any) is that they react exactly like a 5 year old.

I don't mean that in a harsh way, actually...it is really how a 5 year old who hasn't managed to figure out how to react appropriately when they don't get their way, or feel they haven't pleased the person who they are getting their supply from (if they're ignored etc) it's just how a 5 year old reacts. Only in the full grown physicality of an adult, it can be very scary sometimes. They love like a child, quickly, intensely; grow bored like a child, quickly, intensely. The methodology is of a child who has learned to manipulate to get attention, but it's never enough, because as a child they never felt loved, wanted or appreciated and this desperation they feel has morphed into Narcissism, which is more accurately active self-loathing rather than self-loving, in the Narc created from a home atmosphere of neglect rather than adoration. The adorative Narc is the other side of the same coin, and has the same reactions.

The joking and cojoling you had to do to get him to help out is absolutely what one would do with a person who has the emotional skills of a very manipulative, punitive 5 year old, and the sooner you understand that, and treat him in that way, the easier it will be to deal with it. I don't mean condescend or patronize... Just remember, a true Narc doesn't do these things out of intention or authentic sadism...they do these things because it was the only thing that worked to fill an emptiness that will never, really be filled.

I pity my ex who is a Narc. I'd never take him back...he was a total crazy-maker who had passive-aggressive gas lighting down to an science. But when I realized what he was doing, and put things together they actually made a weird kind of sense.

So when your ex 'goes off'...let him, but set boundaries and stick to them. Limit time with him when he does flip out, as a form of aversion therapy...fact is, the worst thing you can do to a Narc is ignore them. And do try to limit time in general with him but in a neutral manner. Remember, to a 5 year old who's starved for someone to notice him, any attention is better than no attention. So be non-combative and again, stick to preassigned boundaries you feel are appropriate when dealing with him in the course of raising your children. It won't be easy, but it can be done.

I'm just grateful I never had children with my ex. There are little favors in life after all.


Take care