[greenidentity]

Hello! I wanted to come here to inquire about BPD. I know that self diagnosis is dangerous, but in my recent quest for myself, I feel as ifI meet almost every single symptom of BPD, and possibly some of Oppositional Defiance disorder. The strongest ones are:

-Lack of self
-Constant vaccilating between emotions and opinion on self identity-one day I'm ok, the next I'm a wreck and have no idea who or what I am.
-I can have somewhat successful relationships, but since I question things so much, they can be stressful for the other person since I bounce back and forth with being ok/ not being ok with any given thing in my life.
-Anger at friends and family when I feel abandonded or slighted, sometimes irrational
-Impulsivity: drinking, smoking, eating for comfort
-Constant feelings of emptiness, sadness e.t.c.
-Extreme feelings of being misunderstood and alienated from people
-Feeling as if something is constantly wrong with me, so much that it affects the way I interact with people--feeling inferior or bad.
-Excessivly defensive and protective of myself
-Needs to dominate conversation

I know this isnt a place to be diagnosed, but I just wanted to list some of my symptoms. I also have ADHD and mild anxiety (diagnosed) so I'm sure that's where some of those come from.

*sigh* I feel like such a mess sometimes. I wish i could just be "normal" or at least like I am understood by people. Please share your own stories, or advice.

Thanks

[ECHOES]

Well, you're curious and you want to know yourself better, and that's something you can do with a therapist if you aren't already.

A diagnosis isn't important, it's just a word to descrbe symptoms.

[greenidentity]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

Well, you're curious and you want to know yourself better, and that's something you can do with a therapist if you aren't already.

A diagnosis isn't important, it's just a word to descrbe symptoms.

Yes it is, but to me it is important to attach a term to it. Otherwise, I'm just "crazy" or a bad person...not someone who may have an actual issue that isn't entirely hopeless!

I am in therapy, but not too sure about my therapist right now. I explained much of that in my thread in the Psychotherapy forum.

[Michah]

Hi there, I agree with Echoes........but your "symptoms" are reflective of BPD . I don't know about anyone else, but it took 13 weeks for me to be diagnosed. Dx does not come easy.......if you are unhappy with your therapist you should definitely seek better.......you would not wish to be misdiagnosed.

I have lived with BPD for 15 years.........get the proper help before reaching a conclusion. I am happy to answer any specific questions if I can....

[AnaHannah]

OK! This SUX! Y'all won't let me include the Link to this TIME Magazine article about BPD because I've ONLY made SEVEN posts..?? WTH??......G-d forbid it just MIGHT HELP somebody!!! Plus, it was ALREADY posted on this forum...that's where I obtained it from!!!
...Pls. excuse my intensity...but THIS IS "Borderline Personality Disorder", ADHD, Dyslexia, and "Ana"-WTH in it's purest form! In "action"!! No holds barred! UBER! UBER! UBER....over sensitive...."Third-degree emotional burn"!:quote: OUCH! OUCH! OUCH!!!!!

I got that article here on Psych Central....very good explanation. That's ME! Plus, if you haven't seen the movie "Girl Interrupted"...it's about Winona Ryder and Angelina Jolie w/ BPD. Intense...but very real!

I do NOT like this diagnosis....along w/ all the other Pigeon Holes I've been crammed into!! ...I am a 3x suicide survivor and I'm permanently crippled from it...oy vey...but at least NOW, I want to live!! ....AND be a Good Jew, too! Shalom, The Unsinkable AnaHannah .... I am treading water as fast as I can !!

P.S. I'm sorry if I was a bit "shot-out" here....I just hope that this forum is more tolerant of "our" rants because it's got to be released somewhere...and I hope the people here understand all the intensity, stress, and DRAMA that we just take for granted as "normal" !

....then I feel horribly guilty for even entertaining my bratty, spoiled, picayune problems when I think about people...such as...the women / children in Darfur, etc. !!!

HAIR - SHIRT size 0, please !

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by greenidentity

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Yes it is, but to me it is important to attach a term to it. Otherwise, I'm just "crazy" or a bad person...not someone who may have an actual issue that isn't entirely hopeless!

How about you just have developmental issues to figure out? Our upbringng is for successful development. When it goes wrong our functioning suffers. These things can be worked through and fixed so that you can function better..........

[GrayNess]

I am no doctor but it seems more like BPD than oppositional defiant (ODD). I was previously diagnosed with ODD and that eventually became CD (conduct disorder) and eventually what may soon be ASPD (anti-social) /NPD (narcissistic) (waiting for the phone call to go in and do tests). In fact, I see really nothing in the list that you gave that resembles ODD.

If you want a proper diagnosis, go to a psychologist or psychiatrist. It may take a while, as I've seen 7-8 psychiatrists, a few therapists, and only these last 2 psychiatrsts have been so far of any use. And when I do these personality tests, also seeing a psychologist.

[greenidentity]

Originally Posted by Sannah

How about you just have developmental issues to figure out? Our upbringng is for successful development. When it goes wrong our functioning suffers. These things can be worked through and fixed so that you can function better..........

Developmental issues are part of the reasons why one has mental health issues, no? My point being, of course I have them, but it also isnt that simple. I'm not trying to, nor do I wish, to heap any negative labels on myself with this. I have been going for years not knowing what is wrong with me, trying to be "normal", forcing myself to act like things are ok which I failed at anyways. I found a reason for the way I am, and I feel very positive and enlightened, because I FOUND the problem. Isn't it true we have to find the problem B4 we fix the problem? I feel better because I can define my feelings better in therapy, and I know what specific type of help to seek. This is a new process for me. So new, I have to explore what my triggers are because I may not even be aware of them. So even though I dont like being labeled "borderline" or "ADHD", DX or no DX, I also feel less lost.

I liken this experience to anyon who might have years of undiagnosed physical pain. Many people search for an answer, and when they finally find one, they are relieved. That's exactly how I feel, and I think this is a positive step for me.

My uncle, who I'm close to, is a psychiatric nurse. He's the lead on his ward, and he has told me that he can easily see borderline traits in me, and even some possible PTSD (which I dont think I agree with.) No He is not my doc, but he has known me all my life and knows my history. My family has told me for years there is something deeper than just me not handling stress well, and I always cast them off.

It's time for me to start facing up to my problems, and in order for me to do so, I have to identify it first.

PS--I just noticed I mispelled the thread title, lol!!! Can anyone change it?

[Junerain]

Is having BPD or a different diagnosis truly 'negative?' If you read our experiecnes and times here at PC, we are all beautiful, insightful people with a lot to offer, with big, big hearts and a lot of creativity.

As far as 'normal..' what is that? I do believe normal does not exist, the normal 'police' is the term for feeling pressure to be normal, yet, in fact normal does not truly exist.

You SHOULD feel enlightened, I agree, what a positive feeling to have, to own, that you discovered these truths on your own, way to go.

If I may share, I did NOT have the opportunity to ponder what my diagnosis was, I was mental health arrested on the side of the road before my car was totaled by all the cars behind it, I had left it out of gas SMACK in the middle of a busy highway.

Acting like things are o.k., yes, we all do that, but it can get tiring..NO ONE has things o.k. in their lives, no one is perfect...I enjoy going to see my T, crying if I have to, showing my 'woundedness...' it is so freeing

[Beth1957]

You said that so well, Junerain.

[greenidentity]

Just thought I'd give an update for those who care.

Went back to my therapist today, which was MUCH needed after a very revealing week. I've seen her several times over a scattered period. I know now I need to stay on track and see her every week or at least every other week, insetad of monthly and cancelling and re-scheduling constantly.

Here's the lowdown/ recap: T thinks all/most of my problems are ADHD related. I don't agree. I've had ADHD so long, and feel I know it inside and out (my own ADHD, that is.) I started to feel as if there was something else accompanying it...I don't think ADHD can be related to lack of self identity, feeling empty, instability of emotions, anger at percieved slights or abandonment..things of that nature. I started to feel as if I may be Borderline, hence my post here. I brought all this up to her today. She is able to give DX, so she said "Let's go thru a few things." So we went thru some symptoms. I only met 3 or 4 of ADHD, and around 5 or 6 of BPD.

She STILL refuses to label me BPD. she says I'm ADHD with anxiety and some obsessive stuff....I am DEF. NOT OCD, but I am a big control person. I have to control my life or I go banana's...but it isnt OCD. Control is a big thing with borderlines, no?

Anyways, I feel like I am borderline. She says I'm not hostile enough. I don't feel she knows me well enough. I can be quite hostile and aggressive. Regardless, she said she sees it fit to start DBT next week...YAAAY! This is something I've wanted to do for awhile (is that weird??) and I am excited and scared about what I will find out about myself. I can't wait to see if I can once again become attached to my feelings.

Why is it so hard to get a dx???

Either way, I am not giving up.

[GrayNess]

I wouldn't get a dx with her for 2 reasons. First, she does not have a doctorate and her job isn't to diagnose you, that's for psychologists, psychiatrists, neuropsychologists, etc.. . Second, she seems a bit reluctant to be objective.

Also you need more than a few symptoms to be dx'ed. There's a criteria to be met, which is not always the same as the symptoms. The fact that she may not be using the criteria is a whole other story.

If you meet the criteria and have the required or more than the required amount of symptoms then you may consider having the disorder. But checking only for symptoms is wrong.

Control can be important for many things. I don't think it's necessary for borderline but it may be a symptom.

Don't get confused between the terminology of symptom, syndrome and diagnostic criteria (and some goes for her).

I'd say try to get a psychologist or psychiatrist, even if that means her giving a referral, and tell them you want them to give a proper dx. You may also say, if they ask, what you think you may have.

[greenidentity]

Originally Posted by GrayNess

I wouldn't get a dx with her for 2 reasons. First, she does not have a doctorate and her job isn't to diagnose you, that's for psychologists, psychiatrists, neuropsychologists, etc.. . Second, she seems a bit reluctant to be objective.

Also you need more than a few symptoms to be dx'ed. There's a criteria to be met, which is not always the same as the symptoms. The fact that she may not be using the criteria is a whole other story.

If you meet the criteria and have the required or more than the required amount of symptoms then you may consider having the disorder. But checking only for symptoms is wrong.

Control can be important for many things. I don't think it's necessary for borderline but it may be a symptom.

Don't get confused between the terminology of symptom, syndrome and diagnostic criteria (and some goes for her).

I'd say try to get a psychologist or psychiatrist, even if that means her giving a referral, and tell them you want them to give a proper dx. You may also say, if they ask, what you think you may have.

I guess I probably wasnt clear about my "T". She is actually a Psy.D. I get confused aboutthe differences....

What you told me was very informative...I'm slightly confused about how I can get a dx, but I will talk to her again next time we meet. To me it is important to get a dx, otherwise I feel like I'm just a bad person who cannot be helped. It's my worst fear!! That I just really suck, and don't deserve to be happy or be dx with anything, because relly I'm just terrible to the core.

[Rapunzel]

I know what you mean about wanting a diagnosis. I feel that I meet the criteria for Borderline also, but I guess I must also not be hostile enough, because nobody wants to dx me BPD. It seems to be a borderline trait to want to be diagnosed too. A key issue in BPD is not having felt validated, and I guess the diagnosis helps to feel understood and validated, especially a dx that feels like a good fit.

BPD has probably the worst stigma of almost any dx that is used, mostly because it has been misunderstood and has been used as a dumping ground for any patient that doctors or therapists tend to get frustrated and irritated with, and for too many of them, it has been kind-of the garbage can, because they assumed that BPD wasn't treatable and not worth their time. Attitudes have improved significantly, and now we know (at least some of us do) that there are effective treatments for BPD. But, even in my master's program, many of the instructors told discouraging stories and offensive jokes about borderlines. Therapists that don't want to label us are probably trying to save us that stigma. That, and insurance won't pay if the dix is a personality disorder.

Still, the validation of a diagnosis that fits has its appeal. But I guess what really counts is that we get treatment that helps us to overcome whatever symptoms we have and be successful in life.

[SICKlySweet]

Hi I have BPD, I was diagnosed with it 2 1/2 years ago. I was great-ful to hear it so that I could start the ***Proper Treatment*** I have been struggling all my life. In and out of counselors,psychologists and what not.

I am told that you need to have at least 8 or more out of the 10 main symptoms to have BPD.<<<(Don't quote me on that) And that there are many ppl with BPD symptoms that DO NOT have Borderline Personality Disorder. I know you want to find your DX, BUT plz be greatful that you are not. I understand that you may have it, but so far sounds to me that your T (in whatever form) has given you the proper test.

With That Said; Dialetical Behavioral Therapy (DBT) could do wonders for the world. Anyone can really benefit from this type of therapy. It is certainly directed for BPD'ers but it really helps the general population. It helps the individual to pay attention to why they are feeling a certain way, it's about being mindful. Slowing things down, and focusing on what works rather than not.

In my city of over a mill, there are only two places in the city that teach DBT. One that is a private practice which is expensive, but a person can get into right away. The other (which I am in) is an outpatient DBT clinic only and a person needs to wait for a 1 year and a half. It's serious stuff, I started a year ago Jan going once a week to my T, and than added another evening of **Group Sessions** which I completed after 8 months last Dec 08. I still need to practice these skills. Plus they are anti-meds UNLESS there are underlying symptoms such as Bi-polar Disorder, and the ppl can not do without their meds. There are also strict rules, and with these I have seen people come and go (many) if you miss more than two group sessions you are discharged and have to wait another year and a half. If you cancel too many one on one time with your T/not calling/they have to chase you down, which was my case at the begining and they give warnings.

If this is your true DX I wish you all the best. BUT if not, plz don't push for it. Unless after 20 tests IDK, I want you to be satisfied with your results and find what best suits your needs.

BPD has a 10% suicidal rate. I am a non-functioning BPD'er. One of my goals with my T is to put aside the thoughts of suicide, which haunt me on a day to day basis, I fantasize about doing it. So I can start to function I am trying real hard to remove that from my mind. Anyways Tangent. I wouldn't wish this DX on anyone.

If you would ever like to chat, PM me, the symptoms that I am.have dealt with are listed on my page too. Take Care.

[greenidentity]

Originally Posted by SICKlySweet

Hi I have BPD, I was diagnosed with it 2 1/2 years ago. I was great-ful to hear it so that I could start the ***Proper Treatment*** I have been struggling all my life. In and out of counselors,psychologists and what not.

I am told that you need to have at least 8 or more out of the 10 main symptoms to have BPD.<<<(Don't quote me on that) And that there are many ppl with BPD symptoms that DO NOT have Borderline Personality Disorder. I know you want to find your DX, BUT plz be greatful that you are not. I understand that you may have it, but so far sounds to me that your T (in whatever form) has given you the proper test.

With That Said; Dialetical Behavioral Therapy (DBT) could do wonders for the world. Anyone can really benefit from this type of therapy. It is certainly directed for BPD'ers but it really helps the general population. It helps the individual to pay attention to why they are feeling a certain way, it's about being mindful. Slowing things down, and focusing on what works rather than not.

In my city of over a mill, there are only two places in the city that teach DBT. One that is a private practice which is expensive, but a person can get into right away. The other (which I am in) is an outpatient DBT clinic only and a person needs to wait for a 1 year and a half. It's serious stuff, I started a year ago Jan going once a week to my T, and than added another evening of **Group Sessions** which I completed after 8 months last Dec 08. I still need to practice these skills. Plus they are anti-meds UNLESS there are underlying symptoms such as Bi-polar Disorder, and the ppl can not do without their meds. There are also strict rules, and with these I have seen people come and go (many) if you miss more than two group sessions you are discharged and have to wait another year and a half. If you cancel too many one on one time with your T/not calling/they have to chase you down, which was my case at the begining and they give warnings.

If this is your true DX I wish you all the best. BUT if not, plz don't push for it. Unless after 20 tests IDK, I want you to be satisfied with your results and find what best suits your needs.

BPD has a 10% suicidal rate. I am a non-functioning BPD'er. One of my goals with my T is to put aside the thoughts of suicide, which haunt me on a day to day basis, I fantasize about doing it. So I can start to function I am trying real hard to remove that from my mind. Anyways Tangent. I wouldn't wish this DX on anyone.

If you would ever like to chat, PM me, the symptoms that I am.have dealt with are listed on my page too. Take Care.

Thank you so much for sharing all that. I agree with you, I don't have suicidal thoughts or attempts, though I'm certainly self destructive. And I don't have a consistent pattern of insability in relationships, jobs, living situations etc. I don't fit some of the more severe symptoms. I believe I fit most of the others.

DBT here is not too hard to come by I think. But I feel lucky and excited that I get to try it out.

I just want more clarity into my issues and how to be a better person for myself. Otherwise I'm going to go through my life thinking I'm a big screwed up failure, and dont deserve anything good at all.

[SICKlySweet]

Originally Posted by greenidentity

Thank you so much for sharing all that. I agree with you, I don't have suicidal thoughts or attempts, though I'm certainly self destructive. And I don't have a consistent pattern of insability in relationships, jobs, living situations etc. I don't fit some of the more severe symptoms. I believe I fit most of the others.

DBT here is not too hard to come by I think. But I feel lucky and excited that I get to try it out.

I just want more clarity into my issues and how to be a better person for myself. Otherwise I'm going to go through my life thinking I'm a big screwed up failure, and dont deserve anything good at all.

It's not a competition, it is not about having More Severe Symptoms or less severe symptoms, it is about having the ***Proper AMOUNT of Symptoms.*** AND you're welcome for ALL THAT, that I've shared.

[greenidentity]

Originally Posted by SICKlySweet

It's not a competition, it is not about having More Severe Symptoms or less severe symptoms, it is about having the ***Proper AMOUNT of Symptoms.*** AND you're welcome for ALL THAT, that I've shared.

I didn't mean it that way at all. Sorry.

[GrayNess]

Originally Posted by greenidentity

I guess I probably wasnt clear about my "T". She is actually a Psy.D. I get confused aboutthe differences....

What you told me was very informative...I'm slightly confused about how I can get a dx, but I will talk to her again next time we meet. To me it is important to get a dx, otherwise I feel like I'm just a bad person who cannot be helped. It's my worst fear!! That I just really suck, and don't deserve to be happy or be dx with anything, because relly I'm just terrible to the core.

Ah, well if she is a Psy.D., then she may be able to give you a dx. I don't believe you when you say you're terrible to the core. I've read books on various people, especially serial killers and psychopaths, and currently doing a paper for abnormal psychology from the book Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of Psychopaths Amoung Us by Dr. Robert Hare. Many of the people in that book and other books I still don't consider to be terrible to the core.

Getting a dx is important because without knowing what it is, how can you plan to get it treated? Not having a dx though doesn't make you a bad person. Dx's take time and effort from both you and the doctors.

What you can try to do, and I'm assuming you're somewhere in North America (you exact location in it I don't really care about) but most would use the DSM-IV-TR (or possibly only DSM-IV-R or DSM-IV but the TR is I believe the newest). Anyways, the DSM-IV uses a multi-axial diagnostic criteria, so next time you see her, ask her what your multi-axial diagnosis is. I would explain it to you but there's a fairly decent chance that I'll turn it into a novel on here and bore you to sleep, especially after studying and reviewing for an abnormal psych test for 2nd year university.

I am not sure if we are allowed to post links or not, but in case we are not allowed, here is a quick and dirty summary of the 5 axis:

Axis I - Non-chronic clinical disorders
Axis II - Personality disorders, mental retardation, etc...
Axis III - Medical conditions and any physiological disorders
Axis IV - Living environment that can affect the disorder(s)
Axis V - Global Assessment of Function (GAF) Scale, from 1 to 100. The lower it is, the more assistance or greater disability/dysfunction the disorder causes.

Ask her for that (the multi-axial) dx. Also, although I've never got my paws on one, a report she makes about you. The 2 current psychiatrists will let me see what their report is after I get the personality tests (waiting for the lazy guy to phone still).

[Beth1957]

Originally Posted by greenidentity

To me it is important to get a dx, otherwise I feel like I'm just a bad person who cannot be helped. It's my worst fear!! That I just really suck, and don't deserve to be happy or be dx with anything, because relly I'm just terrible to the core.

I can certainly understand your feeling a need for a DX. That feeling of being a bad person who cannot/does not deserve to be helped is certainly a bit BPD-ish
Rap & Sicklysweet have a point though; your T might well be doing you a favour by not labelling you as BPD; it's very misunderstood, even by many T's. The agression/hostility, for example, need not be overt; mine (yes, I have a DX of BPD) is internalised. At least she's arranging DBT for you, which is fantastic!
Have a look at http://www.borderlinepersonality.ca/borderquietb.htm which was posted here by someone a while back (sorry, can't remember who!) and which I found very helpful & reassuring, in a way, after all of the "Walking on Eggshells" stuff.

[Rapunzel]

I relate to the "quiet borderline" description too. All the anger and rage and hostility is there, but it is locked inside, not turned against others, at least not in ways that they can see. Some of us have had to hide all of that, and can be very good at hiding it. It's hard to find it again.

Just as an aside, all licensed mental health professionals can diagnose. Some prefer to avoid categorizing people, and some are reluctant to tell the client the diagnosis for various reasons, but insurance generally requires a diagnosis in order to pay, and every therapist needs to conceptualize the symptoms in some way. Mental health diagnosis is subjective, though, and from one clinician to another, regardless of training and qualifications, there is not always agreement. I am a master's level counselor, and depending on which setting I am working in, generally the first thing that I do with a new client is an assessment and diagnosis. I don't necessarily share the diagnosis with the client. It depends on if the client asks or shows interest, and what benefit there would be to the client. Quite a few don't want to be categorized or diagnosed at all. Some clinicians tend to consider family dynamics, etc., rather than individual diagnosis. But if there is treatment, there pretty much has to be some diagnosis. That includes psychotherapy, as well as medications. A medical doctor who prescribes an anti-depressant has to diagnose a condition that he or she is treating with that medication. Referral to psychologists for more thorough psychological testing is an option and can be a very good tool for ruling out or refining diagnoses, but isn't required in most cases. And isn't necessarily conclusive, either.