[chiachick]

When I moved to south Florida, thankfully one young lady befriended me. After three years, we have remained friends, through many of life's situations. Immediately, she let me know about certain trauma she had experienced in her life. She assured me she was dealing well, with the help of a variety of drugs, therapy, and meditation. I have supported her with many of the decisions she has made-regardless of how I felt-because I wanted to be a friend-though I always managed to play the devils advocate. It has gotten very overwhelming now. She is, believe it or not, a psych intern, and considers herself a very good child counseller. Again, I try to support her- even though her actions are not always ethically the best. Her defense and reason for everything wrong in her life is , of course, her trauma. EVERYTHING comes back to it. She takes no personal responsibility for her actions-blaming her past. Anytime I attempt to make sense of what is happeneing, she shuts me down by stating that I will never understand because I have not gone through her trauma and I am not educated about these things as she is (though I do hold a masters in theology). This is even how she justifies her dope use-which I very much disagree with. Again, I want to be a good friend, but after three years of consistently- in almost every conversation- dealing directly with her trauma and being told -not about her trauma directly- but about how it has and is affecting her- I am losing it. I feel horrible, as a friend. Is this the way it is for everyone who has PTSD? I can understand that everything can be affected in some way, but is this PTSD a justification for no personal responsibility for one's actions?

[LMo]

Hi Chiachick -- you're a good friend for doing the research as you are. However, what part of her behavior is causing a problem between you two? That part isn't clear in your post. Are you just against the medication she uses? Or is it that she keeps asking for help and then not letting you help her?

Welcome chiachick,

You ask great questions. I too wonder how much people use their PTSD as an excuse versus the REALITY of how much PTSD DOES impact and affect one's path through life.

This thread in this forum was my attempt to understand better what happens when someone has an explosive triggered response: Taking responsibility for your actions when triggered

There are numerous links in the resource directory up along the top of the forums about PTSD. The degree of PTSD can vary widely from person to person.

Some ppl are able to handle their traumatic issue in shorter term therapy w/o meds. Others require twice weekly or more therapy and medications to help stabilize the symptoms of PTSD enough to function in daily life. Still others are fighting moment to moment as their PTSD is so severe it overshadows almost all rational thinking and becomes the core drive of that person. It is a horrible disorder no matter how light or severe one has it.

Many wounded ppl turn to fields of help as they believe their own journey gives them insight into healing that others lack. Often it creates a huge blind spot as well for these ppl to their own issues.

Is your friend in therapy herself? If she isn't in therapy then I would suggest that you take care of yourself and your personal boundaries by being firm in what you will tolerate from this friendship.

You have nothing to feel horrible about. I understand you are feeling as you are feeling........those feeings are yours. But with a friend like this who is either too ill to recognize her inability to take responsibility for her own healing or is too stubborn to admit that she is in need of more help you have to step back and let her make her own decisions.

With what you've shared here about the three years you've been friends with her I doubt she'll change...but we never know and hope isn't a bad thing to have when it is based in some grounded reality. All you can do is take care of your needs and remember that a being a good friend doesn't include being a doormat.

p.s. with your name I picture the chia head of course and now wonder if you mist your hair?! funny image in my head but I'm odd that way

[chiachick]

Thank you for responding so quickly! To answer your question about exactly what bothers me, I could give a number of responses. First, she portrays herself as a victim in every situation. I certainly do not want to underestimate anything she has been through, but everyone has bad days and bad things happen. Second, the simple fact that everything in her life that is bad or uncomfortable or not quite the way she wishes it to be is a result of the trauma. There is absolutely no personal responsibility for anything. Third, she justifies her dope use as it is the only thing that relaxes her because of her trauma. She is in a profession where she ethically should not be smoking dope. Her excuse is that she believes it should be legal, it is not harming her, blah blah blah. And to wrap things up, I would have to say that every conversation as of late deals with how horrible her life is, her meds are, her financial situation is, her romantic life, her social life, EVERYTHING....ultimately becuase of the trauma. But I can't say anything because as she says, I am not educated about this, and she has done 'research', and I will never know. What's the point? I honestly believe, sometimes, that she really doesn't want to move forward, get better, be well, as if she were, there would be nothing to blame the problems in her life on anyone or thing but herself. Gosh, I feel horrible saying that, but I surely think it sometimes.

[LMo]

Well, I'll certainly second you there, that she doesn't sound like she wants to move forward. And someone who is quick to point out that "you wouldn't understand" is probably going to take any constructive criticism you give and twist it around.

Is this friendship good for YOU? I think that's the question you really need to answer. How hard does she try to understand you? Does she bring you more stress than joy?

[chiachick]

You have provided me with some interesting ideas to ponder, and I thank you. I will certainly have to research further, as this idea of a 'trigger' eludes me. And to ease your curiosity, I spray, though my hair is nowhere near green, nor budding. I just liked the way my name rolls off the tongue. Two can be weird that way.

[jennie]

Many who have PTSD do escape through the use of drugs. Another way to push people away and isolate is to say "you do not understand blah blah blah."

How do you stay friends with someone with PTSD? Just be a friend. Try to keep healthy boundaries. Don't rescue them from their problems but honestly guide and point the direction to reality. Don't make excuses for their behavior. PTSD doesn't give one a license to hurt others, even verbally. Drug abuse doesn't excuse behavior either.

Just my two cents.

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You have provided me with some interesting ideas to ponder, and I thank you. I will certainly have to research further, as this idea of a 'trigger' eludes me.

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A trigger is a cue that remind one of a traumatic event and elicits distressing intrusions.
That definition is from a book I've used in my healing work: The Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder Sourcebook by Glenn Shiraldi ISBN 0-7373-0265-8

For a person who was raped triggers could include: <ul type="square">[*]the smell of certain colognes like the one the rapist wore[*]Certain names spoken aloud or even phrases[*]Being touched, even gently, in a certain way that somehow triggers and wham......off to flashback land with the intrusive memories.[*]overly gratuitous sex scenes in major studio motion pictures[*]television shows that mention the word rape[*]people sneaking up and surprising you and thinking your tearful reaction is funny when in fact you are terrified[*]people of the same gender as the attacker similar in build or physical characteristics[/list]I think LMo gave you some good things to think about regarding your friend.

My gut instinct on this is no amount of research you do will satisfy this friend or reassure her that you could possibly understand. You've shown a tremendous kindness just addressing this issue and asking if you could possibly be doing more. Sometimes we have to ask "fish or cut bait?"

Then again you're listening to someone who is delighted to know your hair is neither green nor budding I can go to sleep tonight w/o that mystery nagging my mind. Whew!

[SS8282]

Hello chiachick. I was wondering what your friend would say if you asked her what she would recommend if a 'client' goes to her with the 'same' problem/trauma. Would your friend recommend dope? How would your friend work with this person?

I want to congratulate you in being such a good and caring friend. There aren't many people like you who would stay by someone who puts you down by telling you that you don't understand and doesn't have the 'experience' or 'education' to understand what she went through.

I have been through some traumas myself, and that doesn't excuse me for my actions. Sure they do affect me some ways but not everything.

Anyway, good luck with your friend, and please, take care of yourself. Hugs.

[LMo]

[SS8282]

[CedarS]

Some suggestions:

Take care of yourself first. Fully. You get to set boundaries, you get to say No, you get to even walk away from this person. You get to tell her that you no longer want to hear it.

Keep your focus on how you are feeling when possible. You are feeling overwhelmed, pay attention to this.

You don't need to pay for her trauma, you are not her therapist, you are not in a co-counsel type relationship with her. I even want to put the word -Boundaries- in bright red and caps cause they are so important.

What happens when you try to redirect the friendship? Like if you suggest that the focus be on fun things, a walk through park, a mutual interest that is not about mental health issues?

I have PTSD, but I am more than just that. I am responsible for my actions. I won't make friendships all about my PTSD, because that does not work for me. It would make me too vulnerable, too triggered, too unsafe. And it would also be sorta gooping all over my friend. For me, it would make boundaries all loose and nonexistent.

My number #1 thought on this is to underline my suggestion that you focus on yourself first. Your own needs and wants and desires. That you remember to say No when you need to. That you take yourself out of overwhelming situations when possible. That you be a really good friend to yourself first.

Sarah

[chiachick]

Thank you for your inspiring words. I also thank everyone else who offered helpful advice. I am going to try some of the suggestions- I hope something will help, as I really want this friendship to survive. Thanks again.

[chiachick]

First, I have to thank everyone for sharing with me. I have benefitted greatly. However, I have made a major mistake. Basically, she asked what was wrong, and I told her....all about how I felt about her lack of personal responsibility, everything being the 'trauma's' fault...and boy did she get upset. She threw around scholastic psych terms proving she is 'right' and I am obviously wrong (though I was just talking about how I felt- no rights or wrongs). She then started to attack me and my apparent struggles with addiction, and threw more intellect about psychology. She refused to even consider my views, saying that 'in the first year of psychology, everyone learns...'. She ended with the she supports me through my issues, but I do not support her. She was often extremely irrational, bringing things into the convo not even mentioned nor relevant. Did I 'trigger' her? Now I'm peeded off. Was it a bad idea to bring this to her? What if someone came to you with similar thoughts?

[Schatze]

You need to know that you are truly a very good friend to have endured what you have and still be involved with her. I don't have time to post any more about this but I just wanted to tell you that.

[CedarS]

One way you can look at this, is that you tried something, it did not work for you, and now you have more information. No failure in this, just learning.

She truly might be someone with which you cannot have those type of in-depth conversations with, at least for now. Since she attacked, please keep this fact in mind, so you can weigh how much you want to deal with her or not.

Since she has kept her mental health issues front and center consistently in your friendship, perfectly normal that you would at some point say something. Would she be willing to help you shift the friendship to doing fun things, to not hashing out mental health stuff?

Ideally the deep type of support I think needs to come from a therapist, someone paid, a health care person, your friend can keep the stuff for there, appropriately. One friend cannot and should not be everything. You don't have to be her therapist, her counselor, her cheerleader. And you get to say No and not like things.

Hmm, if I had someone come to me with what you had said, I'd be surprised cause I don't see myself that way. I'd work to keep both of us on track, not use attacking language, work together to find out what is at the core of things. If I found out that I had indeed been talking way too much about my mental health stuff to you, it would hopefully dawn on me that I need to get myself back into therapy. That I need to work in my journal and find other ways to vent. I'd work to figure out how both of us can win. I'd probably end up in tears and I'd apologize if I figured out that I had indeed been out of line. If our friendship came through intact and stronger, I'd suggest going out and doing something fun!

You get to be angry, you have the right to your feelings.

Ultimately, I would say you did not force her to be triggered. Might be a triggering situation for her, but she has lots of choices. She could have walked away. She could have worked to be quiet and really listen to you.

These are just some of my fast thoughts on the subject, just my humble opinion. I hope that no matter what, you take good care of -you-.

[(JD)]

I'm thinking... that you might also need to tell her (possibly over and over?) how you are now trying to educate yourself about this disorder. (Remember, you have been acquaintances for 3 years and she hadn't even explained "triggers" to you.)

And, find items on the net (as she won't hear you, imo) how she needs to square herself away before trying to help others. (To me, I can't imagine how she can counsel others as she would be triggering and reacting to herself!) just my opinion

I admire your efforts. It's a big challenge you've taken on.

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Did I 'trigger' her? Now I'm peeded off. Was it a bad idea to bring this to her? What if someone came to you with similar thoughts?

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It sounds to me like her attack is her way of closing off any further inquiries into her behavior, which from what you've said, doesn't seem to be one she wants to change. If she "faces" what you are trying to tell her, then she has to face that it might be true. It's like being forced to look in the mirror when she doesn't want to see what's really there. The "trauma" excuse is just allowing her to stay exactly where she wants to and have a "legitamate" excuse to do so.

When I was diagnosed with PTSD I worked hard at learning everything I could about it, then I shared my knowledge with friends and family. I wanted them to know just as much about it as I did. It strengthened my relationships!

JMO

Petunia

[dayzee9]

Chiachick.......

It must be incredibly draining on you as well; sounds like your situation, you might as well be talking to a brick wall.
I am a psych nurse, I have have several PTSD "upsets", however, I do not use them to cover for every thing that happens in life. As a psych Intern, I would think that she should know better....but I have met ppl who hide behind trauma as an "excuse" for everything wrong in their life & I realize there's times when I want to slap them in the face & yell "WAKE UP!" However, quite inappropriate action.......I think if you tried to gently ask her "why?" is it always her "trauma". Get her to own up w/ her current actions. I am glad that she is your friend b/c I realize how important, yet fragile, friendships can be. If it really bothers you, try to keep asking the "Why??"
Or, you can sit back & let it scrape on your nerves until it negatively affects your friendship..........ball's in your court, Chiachick..........*hug* DAYZEE9

[Schatze]

Hi Chiachick, to me it seems that you deeply care about her and I can only imagine that you feel she cares about you too or you wouldn't be here trying to help her. I think your confronting her about her lack of responsibility and her making everything the trauma's fault was good, but it may have been a little too much for her to handle all at once. If you truly want to continue and foster this friendship, you may want to start telling her how you are being affected by it and how your are feeling about her outbursts and how much she is hurting you.

Instead of telling her things that she can fire back with psych terms, try talking to her more about 'feelings' that you are having. When she tries firing back with psych terms (and I would bet she's still going to try) keep explaining that you are talking about how YOU are feeling and how her actions are making YOU feel. Tell her your conversation is not about her and that you want to talk about YOU. Try turning the conversation to you at any point you can and this will help her feel like she doesn't have to defend herself so much. It will also be harder for her to argue with you about how YOU are feeling. If she brings up being in the first year of therapy still and that people are learning the first year, agree with her and let her know that she now needs to start learning how her actions are affecting those around her and in particular, you. Explain to her that she will learn a great deal in therapy but she shouldn't stop trying to learn from her life experiences as they continue. She seems to have traded therapy for real life and the two must work together.

You have received some very good avice in this thread from others and I think you have to make a decision as to how much you are willing to endure to hold on to this friendship. It seems to be hurting you and you need to be aware that she could actually be traumatizing you right now. (I don't know enough about your situation but I wanted to let you know this could happen).

I hope you do what is best for you, and please be safe with yourself.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((hugz)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Schatze]

Welcome Petunia, nice to meet you and I'm glad your here.

Why thank you kindly, Schatze!

Based on her response to your words I would venture to guess she isn't ready to hear truth right now. Sadly, she may never be.

I think you've done so much as a friend just being there and now finding out as much information as you can trying to better understand.

Please watch your own needs and make sure you're doing okay before attempting to 'go back in the ring' with your friend.

I would hope she could learn to listen to valid concerns from someone who loves her but often folks who do use their illness/disorder/disease as an excuse will NEVER hear anything that contradicts their internal belief system.

I wish you strength and luck. I think you've invested quite a bit in this friendship. Are the returns worth it to you? Or are you throwing energy/love down an endless well?

Your compassion and concern are touching. I wish everyone struggling with disorders/disease had a friend as dedicted as you are showing yourself to be.

I'm sorry you were hurt by her reaction to your concerns.

[chiachick]

In the wise words of my toddler....'thank you- you all good'.

[Schatze]

How cute and sweeeeeet!