[archipelago]

I have been writing about things that have been going on at my university for psychology, that started with a problematic email I wrote while asleep on Ambien.

Then the student, who couldn't accept that or my sincere apology and changes in behavior, made more trouble for me at the university.

Finally, she verbally attacked me, causing "intentional infliction of emotional distress," which the University supposedly investigated, but really it was just for show because they were not actually interested in protecting me from this student. Instead, they were already considering dismissing me from the program.

I didn't realize that at the time. They said instead that some sort of supportive plan would be put in place, but when I met with the committee inquiring about everything, it seemed to go okay, if not well.

But I just heard last night that that committee summarily dismissed me from the program all together, and the reasons all had to do with the problematic email written on Ambien.

Even though I stressed over and over, and had a letter from my psychiatrist about the side effects of this medication, they are psychologists not psychiatrists so they held me responsible and did not consider the medicine at all.

And they said that there was no previous behavior that could establish a pattern, they just stuck to the content of that one email and just said it was bad enough to dismiss me.

I haven't been able to absorb the impact this has yet. I'm in a state of shock. My whole future is over. I can't apply to another school with this dismissal on my record. I'm going to have to take legal action to clear my record so I can try another school.

In the meantime, I have lost everything. Lots of time and money went into tuition and maintaining an additional apartment away from my husband. Now I have to try to get out of the lease and move back in with him.

Then I have to see if it is still possible to pursue a career as a therapist, this time maybe just an MA rather than a doctorate.

I do have some free legal benefits through my husband's university benefits, but I don't even know what kind of law this falls under. I think there are two cases here. One against the student for attacking me and the other about the University not considering the side effects of a well known medication and just dismissing me which is extreme. I called even in the letter of dismissal an "outstanding student." So I believe that an attorney would be able see right through what the University has done as injustice because there are legal precedents about Ambien, that the psychologists didn't even want to hear about, but which an attorney could use to say that the University dismissed for something I am not responsible for, even though I did try to take some responsibility in the sense that I apologized to the student several times.

I think this whole experience is going to end up producing yet another traumatic experience that will reactivate my now rather quiet PTSD. I'm really afraid that will happen. I'm in such a state of shock right now that I have no idea what will happen when this sinks in.

[roads]

This is a touchy and still unclear area of law. Is writing on Ambiem like driving on alcohol? Is there responsibility?
I don't know. If you're able to find the "exactly right" attorney" for this, you might be able to turn this into a Big Deal.
You never can tell, will lawyers.
Good Luck!!

[archipelago]

Actually there is lots of legal precedent about the side effects of Ambien. A woman who disrupted a flight so much that it had to return to its origins, was facing federal crimes, something like 30 years in prison, but when they found out that she had taken Ambien, they let her go, with 5 days of time served.

DUIs are more difficult and often prosecuted even though the person was "sleep driving," and that is well established. But other cases involving atypical behavior produced by this medication have been documented. That the University didn't even consider the medication in their evaluation of my behavior means that I have a pretty clear cut case to raise.

What I am concerned about right now is that this might end up feeling traumatic to me and reactivate PTSD symptoms. I need support for this possibility. My life has been destroyed. I'm 50 and my husband is 87. I am facing the reality that he will die and I have to have a career to support myself. I cannot pursue another school with a dismissal on my record so I don't think I have a choice about using legal advice. It is a question of my survival. For now I feel safe and somewhat relieved that I am away from what was becoming a progressively toxic environment. But it has implications that I cannot yet register. My life and future and career and reputation have all been destroyed. I'm afraid of what will happen when I start to take that in and really feel it.

[Open Eyes]

(((iota))),

I am so sorry about this. I understand your being shocked that they have taken such a drastic step with this. Don't let yourself keep going over it and allow yourself some time to talk to an attorney about this. You may have alot you can do about this that you don't know yet, so don't let yourself determine the future ok? The sooner you find an attorney and move forward with knowing your options the better you will feel.
So make sure you don't "project" and just take the next steps.

(((Big supportive Hugs)))

OE

[ThisWayOut]

I'm so sorry they did that. ((hugs)) They are supposed to be an institution that is aware of all this crap, and recognize the potential issues meds present... I had a similar issue about being removed from a program, but it was more of me taking a leave of absence, and simply not being given the option to return...
I would definitely go the legal route to at least let you back into another school... that really sucks. Do you think the support form your psychologist will help you through the situation enough to make it feasible?
I'm really sorry... they should have considered the med issue, and been more involving of you in the decision-making process... I totally feel for you.

[archipelago]

I am still feeling the shock so everything feel unreal to me. I don't even know what to do with myself. My therapist scheduled a brief extra session today to help me and another full session tomorrow as well as our usual Friday session. So I'll see him everyday this week.

When I saw him, I felt more real again. Our relationship is so deep and affectionate that I feel understood and cared about. It helped a lot, although the reality that this happened has yet to register and I'm still not sure how it will happen. What sorts of emotions I might feel when I'm able to take this in.

I was able to show the letter of dismissal to my therapist and asked him to respond, without my making a comment. He said it was very "heavy-handed." We talked about how they had only considered a single email and blamed me for it though they admit that it is the only one and my record is excellent. They make no mention of the medication at all.

I also showed my therapist an email I wrote to a lawyer. My husband has legal benefits so I called and got the names of two attorneys. I called one and wrote the other one. In the email I lay out all the facts of the case and what I want done, which is simply to have my records sealed so I can apply to other schools.

I make a pretty good case not only about them not taking into consideration the medication, but also they did not even follow their own "due process" rules, which state that if a student is found in "violation" of rules, they may be placed on "probation" with some sort of plan. If the supposed "violation" turns out to be unintentional, as is the case here, then all they can do is issue a warning to the student and perhaps also include a plan to make sure nothing else happens. The rules do not state that a student can be dismissed in this manner. In fact you have to go through the probation process several times before you are allowed to be dismissed. So obviously what they did was wrong and a lawyer wouldn't have too much difficulty raising enough questions to get the University to agree to simply sealing my file to avoid a long legal hassle or my reporting them to the American Psychological Association, which is responsible for giving accreditation to schools. They want to avoid things like that or legal actions that might involve me asking for a great sum of money since there have been successful suits for asking places like this to pay out all of the wages I would have earned if I had become a psychologist. If a lawyer just hints that that is possible, they may be eager to resolve it quickly by just sealing the record.

[Open Eyes]

((iota)),

I am glad to hear your T is there for you with this. Let us know what feedback you get from the Lawyers you contacted.

Try to keep in your mind, "God doesn't close one door without opening another one".
I have been trapped in a lawsuit from the damage I suffered to horses and ponies ruined, two died, from my neighbor's dog. All that sudden loss, including a good portion of my business due to the loss of animals I could no longer use, has led to my developing PTSD. Never in my life did I ever imagine ever dealing with all of this. So I do try to think about some other door opening that I haven't really seen yet. I keep hope.

Well, you never expected that drug to affect you like that and lead to this mess. Make sure you don't have a case against the drug company as well.

We are here for you.

((Hugs)))
Open Eyes

[Pikku Myy]

Guess.. my opinion is "never give up".... and go after your dreams at full and now forceful speed

[archipelago]

Thanks. I'm sorry to hear about your own experience. I am trying to remain hopeful. I also contacted another school to find out about an easier program, just an MA to become a therapist in a shorter period. But I can't apply there unless my record is cleared. I simply cannot lie that I didn't attend there. Plus I need letters and they would have to come from there.

I do have to start to let go a little bit, just in case there really isn't an option left to pursue a career as a therapist any longer. I don't know what to do about this. It feels urgent because my husband is 87 so I don't have much time to establish a new career to support myself and survive the future without him.

Jobs where I live are very difficult to find, and I'll have student loans to pay back on top of that, plus paying for my therapist, which isn't cheap. I can't really start considering all of this right now; it's too overwhelming.

What my therapist did say is that I could just become something like "a life coach" which in my little hippie/New Age town is popular and people seek out alternatives to actual therapy. So while I would rather be licensed and for real, this is something I could possibly do.

I could also just drop it all together and go back to school and pursue something else, like marine biology, which the school is really good at and I'm a dedicated ocean activist. So a whole other direction, but something that would be interesting.

[archipelago]

I just received another letter from the Dean of the whole school, who said I was no longer allowed on campus without an escort! They are being really extreme here. A faculty member who was my advisor asked that we talk when things settled down because he had taken great interest in me and was the only one who really expressed feelings for what the university was putting me through. I had thought that I could meet with him at some point and just also return a library book. But when they say that I need "an escort" they are acting like I'm some sort of criminal! It's totally crazy and outrageous.

I merely asked that my online account remain open for a few weeks so that I could print out all of my important documents. It seems a reasonable and mild request, perfectly understandable, but they are acting so strangely toward me that maybe they won't even allow that, which means I wouldn't have the documents for an attorney.

So far no news from the lawyers I contacted. I'm wondering if something really can be done or not. This seems so unfair. I'm starting to feel really really badly treated. It's hard to fight when I am starting to feel like a whole institution is against me and I'm just a powerless student. This is starting to trigger me.

[Open Eyes]

(((iota))),

They are definitely over reacting. It sounds like this woman you had the problem with has threatened them with some legal action so they are trying to "protect" against that. So try to remain as calm as you can because you don't really have all the facts.

It is probably taking the attorneys you called some time to investigate this to see what your rights are, so give them time to do that. What you "can" do is let them know what you are dealing with now. Keep a file and get as much as you can get "in writing". So, if the school is making these new demands, don't just take their instructions by phone, make sure they put it in writing.

What you are now addressing is because of things that have taken place in Colleges/schools that were overlooked and some of these things got bad, the Schools ended up with "big legal problems". So now they have to consider any possible trouble as something that could turn into a "bigger issue".

That's like me for example, I have genuine damage resulting for my neighbor's carelessness, I have been involved in the legal fight for years now, why, because of all the people that "lie" about injuries etc and take advantage of the system just to try to get money. There are people that think up all kinds of things to make money off of lawsuits and because of that the people that have "genuine" damage are now going through alot more to get "justice". Yeah, it's very unfair.

We live in strange times now, so yes, it isn't unusual for something that seems so small can get to be blown up like this. So, you are going to have to be patient and see what your attorneys can do for you with this situation.

I am very sorry that you are dealing with this, and you know your facts, unfortunatley,as I mentioned, people lie so much now that it is pretty considered guilty until proven innocent even though it isn't suppose to be like that.

So you gotta do your best to be patient and try very hard not to allow yourself to feed into it emotionally, I know that is hard to do with PTSD, but do your best to be patient and try not to project as I mentioned before.

(((Hugs)))

[archipelago]

Thanks for your message. It is true that I don't know all the facts about my dismissal, but I think I have a straightforward case about the fact that they didn't consider the medication involved and blamed me instead. Furthermore, even though I have an outstanding record, that includes appreciation of clinical skills, they generalized from this one email to my overall abilities which is wrong. And the last thing is that they didn't follow there own processes about maybe putting me on a warning or a probation so they could later check in on how I was doing. According to the rules, that is how a student is supposedly be handled if any question is raised.

Even if I get a lawyer to get involved, people at the University may not be willing to write for me even though they like me and thought I had a lot of talent and potential. They may feel it is too messy, or even worse, may be instructed not to have any further contact with me. So in terms of applying to another school, I don't know that that would be possible without letters or my record sealed.

My therapist tried to suggest some alternatives, but I feel pretty demoralized. He said that if I didn't feel demoralized by this I would really be crazy. He said I had the big heart of a therapist and also the clinical skills. He did raise though that I may not be able to handle the emotional demands, at least there was still a question about that, though he added that he was impressed by how well I was handling this whole mess since when it started. That it showed strength and resilience and that he was not seriously worried about me.

When I feel that I have no future in this career, I'm going to end up becoming very emotional about it. I'm starting to feel that as a possibility. I used to be a professor at Berkeley so I can't imagine just taking any old job and having a life like that. I need more than that and am more talented than that.

This injustice is so hard to deal with, I can't even get angry because it seems absurd that one single email written while asleep would be the cause of all this drama which I didn't create and tried to handle professionally.

[archipelago]

My whole life has been filled with people who did horrible things to me and got away with them. Most people have not proven that they could be even decent, let alone trustworthy. How can I continue in a world that lacks decency and is filled with mean people? Why should I even try? It just happens over and over again. I am vulnerable somehow and people prey on that vulnerability so I can never win, no matter hard I try.

Every time this happens I try again with renewed hopes, and they get dashed to pieces. I'm too old to continue to have to put up with this anymore. I'm so tired of fighting and struggling when I am good and decent and treat everyone well. It doesn't make any sense any more.

[pachyderm]

This could be a good (and very painful) lesson on how people can virtually lose their rational minds when afraid. Maybe studying that could benefit you in any future career. There certainly is enough material for you to study!

[Open Eyes]

(((iota))),

I understand you need to get the anger out with this, and I can't blame you about that. Yes, I understand how it feels like other people do terrible things and get away with it, believe me, my neighbor was just "lazy and careless" and he caused so much damage to my life because of it. It wasn't a case of this dog just breaking free or a one time deal, he knew his system was down and that dog was running on my property so he let it out at night while I was sleeping so I would not notice. I am battling PTSD, dealing with so much debt and loss of business because my animals were destroyed, yet he gets off while I battle with his homeowners insurance company. Yeah, I know all about seething anger. And I can say the same about many times I was hurt and still got up and tried, over and over. I dealt with things that I never deserved, things that were "other peoples problems" not mine. I can't blame you for feeling the way you do. I was your age when I lost years of hard work, so much hard work and things I could not replace.

But, ((iota)), all this anger you are developing is not going to help you, infact it is going to hurt you. I wish I could wave a wand and make it go away, but something bad happened and now you are going to have to take time to figure out what you can do with the help of an attorney.

Remember, you will be dealing with patients who are struggling like you are now, you wanted to be a T right? Well, how would you talk to someone like you? How would you help someone like you dealing with a situation like this? You already know what aggrivates PTSD, how would you guide them because that is what your job would be?

((iota))) While you did face some real challenges in your life, you got up and picked yourself up and fought back again. Do you know what that means? That means you are a strong person iota, so you "do" have it in you and you have to find your way to tap on that "strong part of you again" because you have been a "survivior" and yeah, it is hard, and yeah, there are alot of crappy people in the world that do get away with bad things. Well, now you are facing another challenge, is it fair? No. But you have no choice but to forge forward, and you "can" do that. Is it easy? No it's not, but you should not be chosing to let this aggrivate your PTSD, it isn't not good for your brain. You need to chose to fight your way again.

It doesn't sound like you have heard back fromt the attorneys yet. You have to be patient for that and you may need to ask a few more attornies. I believe you about that drug, there are "known" side effects that are very troubling, so you are not making this up. So, you have to be strong and find out what you can do. And, you have to talk yourself out of allowing you to let this spirial you down where it aggrivates the PTSD. The one that will hurt is you, you can't let that happen.

Yes, you are right you have an education and you were a professor at Berkley which is a very good school. You have to also look at the things you "do" have that are very positive.

(( Big encouraging Hugs)))

[archipelago]

Thanks, I wrote not necessarily feeling anger directly, but feeling defeated and like I didn't have a reason to continue faced with such a world. I took a nap and woke up feeling more positive, that I could probably apply to a new school, even if a lawyer didn't call back. It would be hard to letters to do so, but maybe something could happen. I already looked up a new school so when I get their package, I'll call and see about questions.

I have learned more than I need to about how badly people can behave. I don't believe that I can do much, except be there for those who have experienced it and try to listen and understand so they feel supported. I know I have that quality already and I know that it is also clinical trained to some extent.

I am now feeling relief that I'm away from that school. It was not only becoming toxic for me because of the other student, but it was not really focussed on therapy. It was more for research as a psychologist, which is not what I want and was very very demanding. So they did me a favor in a way. I'm free now to enjoy some time with my husband as I recover and try to set up a new plan.

None of this will be easy at all. I'm bound to have those moments where the injustice returns. Right now I am just trying not to let this overwhelm me as a living nightmare and try to see what I can do.

[Open Eyes]

I am glad you got a restoritive nap in and have calmed down and are thinking about some "positives" and thinking about moving forward "inspite' of this situation. That is much better for you overall.

Good work, keep it up. We are supporting you and here when you need to talk.
(((Hugs)))

[archipelago]

I now know that this school was a mismatch for me since I had a day when my vitality returned and I realized that all my playful, creative sides were being pushed away by having to perform according to their hyper-professional sense that had to do with being more like a scientist.

But today after being told I would no longer have access to my online account there, I had to go through very quickly and pull out all the important documents, some of which an attorney might need. It pulled me back into the feeling of being a victim of their bad treatment of me.

I ended up writing a note to each of my professors letting them know the truth about what happened, that this whole thing should have been taken as a reaction to a medication and nothing more.

I don't think I will hear back, not even from the ones who were on my side and wanted to talk after this all settled down. I left them contact information, but I have a feeling that they won't write to me.

The problem is bigger than the one email. I was open about having PTSD, because it is part of why I want to be a therapist, and it is basically in control except on certain occasions.

I think the school used that information against me, even though they should know better. It's not in the dismissal letter, which only mentions the single email, but I have a feeling they formed an opinion that is prejudiced against people who say that have something like PTSD.

I feel like I'll never be open about this anymore. People seem not to be able to handle it. They pretend they can for a while. But if something comes up, they are quick to jump to conclusions.

PTSD is also not my fault. It is obvious caused by outside trauma. They should be sympathetic and amazed that I'm so well-functioning that I could do their program. Instead I'm being treated like some sort of psycho. I was also told I was no longer allowed on campus without an "escort" as if I'm a terrorist. They are acting so weird and also mean that it makes no sense and makes me spin around and around in a crazy-making attempt to put it together and make it make sense. But it doesn't.

I wish I could just get away from it somehow. If someone has a suggestion about how to take such a disruption that could have a serious impact on me, even trigger PTSD again, please let me know. Thanks.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by iota

They should be sympathetic and amazed that I'm so well-functioning that I could do their program. Instead I'm being treated like some sort of psycho. I was also told I was no longer allowed on campus without an "escort" as if I'm a terrorist.

I'm not there to see for myself, but it sounds to me as though they may be responding to the stories of other students who have gone off the deep end and done mass shootings or something. Their first reaction is self-protection in the most primitive way (short-circuiting their wiser minds). Not sure what you could do about it other than getting far away from them with your sanity (mostly) preserved!

[unaluna]

I'm sorry I haven't responded before this. You might want to look into applying for social security disability, even though you're still pretty young and might not get it until you're 55. I got fired just before I turned 51 from a university admin position computer programmIng. I did temp work and became a manicurist, cleaned the shop I worked at. I enjoyed the artistic aspects for a change.

[optimize990h]

The whole process that started with a verbal attack from that student, the school administration, the investigator(the one I thought on the administration's side), and the dismissal letter seems totally unfair. They just used the facts they needed to support their rationale and ignored other facts(the "investigator" who dropped the info from your therapist on the floor! It's a wonder the "investigator" did not just roll them up in a paper ball!) OK I stop that line of thinking.

I am just sorry the world has people who think and behave this way. The lack of equality and justice in this situation is severely lacking.

[Open Eyes]

((iota)),

I think the school is over reacting, have you heard from the attorneys you contacted yet?

It is important that you make sure you recognize whatever PTSD symptoms come up for you and don't let yourself "feed into them" ok? Remember that "anger" is one of the big PTSD challenges, so be careful to pay attention and make sure you don't let yourself feed into the anger too much.

Also in this situation it is very easy to assume prejudice too. Make sure you stand tall with this and remember not to "project" which is something else PTSD can bring out. As far as the possibility of them determining you are a risk somehow because of the PTSD, well, iota, there are so many therapists that chose this field because they themselves struggled, this is a pretty well known fact about this field. Infact my therapist battles depression and he is such a good therapist because he understands the challenge "first hand". He has told me that there are many psychologists that practice for years that themselves struggle in some way. Sometimes they get alot of their own healing by being therapists, and sometimes they do break and realize that they never really resolved their own issues and take time out to do just that.

The bottom line iota is, we are all just human and we all have our challenges. The better psychologists are the ones that can relate, that understand the challenge and have learned how to better manage PTSD and understand the significance of listening and providing a "safe" place for patients to come and talk out their challenges and finally be "validated".

What is "positive" about how you are working through this challenge is you are looking for the "positives", and that this school didn't fit you and that you didn't see that right away. iota, everything you experience with this challenge, and work through is something you can help others do down the road. That is why it is important to really think about setting aside a "therapist side of yourself, to help yourself with this situation".

The truth is, there are things that happen in society that are cold and matter of fact like this situation you are in. Yes, it isn't fair, but unfortunately that can happen in life for all of us. I have alot of experience with this myself and it sure has been a huge challenge for me. If I had a T that could relate to it all and guide me, help me tap onto my "strength" even though I am so challenged, I know it could make a huge difference to me. There are times where I would like my T to be able to say, yes, I know exactly what you are struggling with, how exhausting it is, I have felt it and here is what I have found to work etc., that would have taken away my sense of loneliness with it.

I think it is great that you "want" to help others, that you have PTSD, have been managing it, and have decided to help others who struggle with it. I see it as a plus, not a threat tbh.

We cannot "change" society, but we can learn to change how we unknowingly allow it to affect us.

[archipelago]

First of all I want to report that I have figured some things out and am learning a lot that will help not just me. So I wanted to start another thread about the things I've figured out.

But to finish up here, thanks for saying what you've been saying, optimize. I was naive, just trusting them. I was in a way "set up." All of those "special" and "urgent" meetings that I had to go to were all about the institution doing what was its own interest, not about my being able to continue to be in that school. Now I know that I will never be that naive again. When the whole thing started after the email was reported, I should have gone in to the administration myself and explained what happened so that by the time the student came to the administration, which was a whole month afterwards, my truth was in their hands already. If anything ever happens to me again that involves a tricky situation, I'm going to make sure that people here from me right away.

Open Eyes, yes you are right about everything. I do think that many therapists struggle with things so it wasn't necessarily that I had PTSD that made them act this way, but I do think that they used the PTSD to put the email in the context of "mental instability" rather than medication. And because they have reacted to me so strangely, that seems the only likely thing that could be behind it.

I want to start a new thread about healing lessons I've learned that might help others.