[MotownJohnny]

I would love some answers. I just had overall a miserable weekend, just a small part of a miserable life. Except that this weekend, it was all in my mind - it was actually pretty nice IRL, I just couldn't get myself out of the mental black pit enough to begin to enjoy it.

I have so much shame and guilt over ending up in the day hospital, and a completely irrational fear of being sent back, to the level of paranoia. IRL, the only grounds anyone could conceivably have to do that to me would be if I were stupid enough to the to kill myself and get caught in-act or botch the job and survive. If I ever did that, a right I reserve for myself under the proper circumstances, I would have to make sure neither of those things could happen -very private and very effective.

It all feels like I did something really "wrong" - like a major transgression of the rules of society, a crime or a cardinal sin. And I do not seem to be able to wrap my mind around the concept that I shouldn't feel guilt or shame over all of this, because society does not walk the walk. No one puts cancer patients in restraints or locks the doors to the oncology wing, or puts then in the back of a squad car and hauls them in for treatment against their will. But if you have a mental illness, all of those indignities and many more are possible.

I hate this. It all combines in my mind, what did happen, what could happen, and it becomes this thing that overtakes me daily. I hate it, and I have no clue how to make it go away. Imam do profoundly sad now, because no matter what I do, I'm always just the crazy guy in my mind.

[JaneC]

Who is it that says that you are not allowed to feel shame and guilt? These are your feelings, and they are just that....feelings Johnny. Have you discussed this with your T? Have you come up with a plan together to work through these feelings? Because it is possible. It is ok (despite feeling horrid, I know, I feel shame often) to feel that way, but it is important also to get support to work through it.

As far as society's view of those with mental health challenges...well, that stigma is not going to change overnight IMHO. I believe by opening conversations, by slowly bringing these conversation out into the open, then the general public will slowly begin to realise that mental health issues are like any other health concern. They deserve to be treated with respect, compassion, understanding and support.

In saying that, unfortunately there will always be a few cases that are extreme and will always need a slightly stronger response. However, I personally detest people being restrained against their will when a softer and kinder approach may work just as well. I speak from personal experience, both having been treated with disrespect by the police at a time I just needed compassion and understanding.......and also from the perspective of working with clients who have been in active psychosis hearing command voices that tell them to hurt others (could have been me) or themselves and my compassionate approach resolved the situation.

I am sorry you are having such a hard time. Please though, don;t give up on yourself, get to see your T and begin to work through this.....you can and will if you want to.

Kind

[splitimage]

I can relate, sort of. I have a semi-irrational fear of being put on a form (involuntarily committed). My addictions Dr. has come close a few times, so now I'm really careful what I say to her. I don't have the same fear with my pdoc, since he views hospitalization as a last resort.

If I can be gently challenging, I think you need to try to let go of the label and move on. Since your partial hospitalization program, you've made huge, incredible strides in changing your life for the better. I'm not saying quit therapy, if it helps you, but you might want to look at mindfullness. It's all about staying in the present, and not letting the past haunt you. I still struggle with regrets about the past occassionally, but now I'm mostly able to stay in the present, and it's incredibly liberating. Jon Kabat-Zin is a good author to start with.

Please don't think I'm trying to minimize your struggles. I'm not. I accept that they are very real to you. All I am saying is that sometimes it can be more useful to stop dwelling on the past and focus on the now.

splitimage

[JaneC]

PS: you are not a crazy guy.....cause if you are, then so am I a crazy girl. And in jest I use this word for myself...but not to label myself in a derogatory way. Please don't talk about yourself in that way ok?

[Open Eyes]

You have some excellent responses here Mowtown. What I noticed myself is that
after someone experiences something traumatic and develops PTSD, the person often
has these feelings for a while. I was very challenged with guilt myself that I would
get so bad that I too ended up at a psych ward in total emotional confusion.

Maybe what you need to think about is that it was not bad or wrong if you were
at a point in your life where you experienced a trauma where you got to a point
where you got severely emotionally confused. That is not "crazy" Mowtown and
Jane is right, so right about the need for that to be recognized and be treated
with compassion and understanding.

In all honesty Mowtown, I have struggled with these emotional challenges myself. I went through some really rough times and my therapist helped
me through them and he validated all these emotional challenges, and still
is helping me with them.

It is "ok" to have emotions Mowtown, and when you have these periods
that you are describing, write them down and bring them into therapy
with you and talk about them with your T. That is what I have done myself,
and as I have been doing that with my T and he is validating these emotional
challenges as I experience them, I continue to do better.

One day while I was expressing some of these challenges, my therapist listened and then he asked me to think about where I was when we started
therapy compared to that day as we discussed what I was struggling with.
What he wanted me to think about is "how much I had gained" in therapy
as compared to where I was in the beginning. And then he talked about
how all his patients gain as they are allowed to vent and discuss their emotional challenges.

When you have these periods and you write them down and talk about them Mowtown, that is called "remembrance and mourning" . Judith Herman wrote
a lot about this in her book "Trauma and Recovery", and she talks about the
three stages of trauma recovery too. I think it would be helpful for you if
you read her book, because it will help you your "I am crazy and unworthy"
thoughts or emotional challenges.

My T told me that in PTSD recovery/healing there is no straight line up, instead it is up and down for a while, especially in the first stage of recovery.
When you talk about your own process of recovering and healing you talk
about a time line from when you were diagnosed up until when you finally
got therapy or were exposed to a good therapist. Well, everyone is different
when they fall apart and then begin the healing process as far as working
through that first challenging stage. The same is true for the second stage and third stage too.

Judith Herman spent a lot of time with Holocaust survivors Mowtown, and if you think about it, these people lived through witnessing horrific things. However, many of them did survive and learned how to live productive lives
in spite of surviving such horrors and extreme emotional challenges.

So, you are on a healing path Mowtown, and you are really not alone with that challenge either, many people are on that path. It is "ok" to have these challenges come up, talk about them and work through them.

(((Hugs)))
OE

[Parley]

I hate to sound stupid but I don't understand why so many people feel guilt. I know I have guilt over what happened in my life but I had no guilt for how I acted. Now granted, I never went in a psych ward. I was on the outside fantasizing about it and couldn't wait for my time. That's messed up but I don't feel guilty for that. Is it because I didn't break down? would I be worse off if I had of? Its a bit confusing to me because it's no better from this side. On this side of the fence~ I maintained stability but I'm a lot older now and I'm going back to get my break. I do not look forward to a psych ward and I would consider it ultimate act of betrayal on my therapist part because I've been stable too long to end up there.

I guess I don't expect anyone to really have the answer. I just want to say that dealing with it now might have been the best thing in the world for you. I had stability but only because I got lucky and was able to create an environment that works for me. There was nothing I could do then but now that I can, I see the monkey breaking my back.

[MotownJohnny]

So, I might be a little calmer now. Well, calmer isn't quite the right term, I wasn't exactly agitated or hyper when I wrote this post this morning, but I was more "tense" if that makes sense.

My current situation (whether real or entirely in my mind, or a mix thereof) actually is parallel to what I experienced growing up. Then, there was a big dark secret that HAD to be kept, "or else", I was expected to create and maintain a public image that was different from the on-the-ground reality, any transgression was a "big deal" even if it really wasn't, and the "penalty" for a transgression was severe. When I was a kid, it was "dad's crossdressing", the image of the "perfect family and loving son", getting an A- on a test in school was a major failure on my part, and the punishment for such a major failure was being brutalized emotionally with the threat that it could turn physical, even though it almost never did (he would do things like grab me by the shirt collar and pull me close as if he were going to punch me out).

Now, the big secret is my time in the day hospital program and all of the other psych related things I have been through, seeing therapists and psychiatrists; the image I have to project is that of citizen/professional/neighbor/family member/good upstanding citizen; the failure was the failure to do that, instead "losing it" and ending up in said day program; the punishment is ... the fear that I will somehow be "cast out" of my life should the big secret be revealed.

When "calmer heads prevail" I can break it down like this. Yes, it is an embarrassing secret. Not something I would like to have known. BUT, it's also not exactly the "end of the world". Other people have done far worse things and managed to pull together their lives - committed crimes, destroyed marriages and families through substance abuse or gambling or infidelity, bankrupted themselves with compulsive spending, etc. - I know I'm putting "value judgments" on those acts, but ranking them like that sort of ... makes me feel better, I guess, whether or not it's really valid to do it like that. My public image, should the dark secret become known, would ???? I don't know. Maybe people are more accepting than I believe them to be? Maybe the majority of people would "understand" or at least not care?

And, the "big question" - COULD they and WOULD they be able to leave me out in the cold of my own life? Realistically, no. Sure, there are some people who could stop associating with me. That might be very painful emotionally. Could my boss fire me? Sure, anyone can be fired at any time (despite what some of us like to think, if they want you out, they will find an excuse sooner or later). Could they "take everything away from me"? Assets such as house, car, bank accounts, retirement fund? No. I would have to be significantly dysfunctional for that to happen.

All of this really is "in my mind". In real life, people now seem to look up to me as some kind of "winner" because of the way I have changed in 2 years - people keep telling me I'm "inspiring" or whatever. Of course, the inner voice always says "if you only knew the truth, you would recoil from me." Of course, the inner voice is FUBAR, so what does it know?

I need to make the inner voice match the outer reality. That is the crux of this situation, because I have been searching for "how" to do that for 2 years almost, and even though I make some progress, or even a lot of progress as in the recent past few months, things apparently always "fall apart" again.

I don't like this. I don't want to keep doing this - I only make myself very unhappy. I just don't seem to know how to "turn it off".

[Teacake]

I opine that all our crazy fantasies are our minds offering us overwhelming information in enceypteld form. As an affluent daughter of patriarchy, I had a horror of prison. I was an avid amnesty i.ternational supporter. I dated and loved a political prisoner. I studied the supermax prisons of the us. I obsessively researched that paper. I threw up over James Holmes plight.

Its because the affluent suburbs are very like a golf course prison. For kids they are. You cant get out. No bis línes. You are the prisoner and property of your parents. You cant get judicial review in most cases. You are second class citizens.

See how it works?

What priaon is to me i imagine involuntary commitment is to you. Im pretty sure its a childhood issue. Thsts why its encrypted. Irrational, symbolic and so compelling.

[Werewoman]

Originally Posted by MotownJohnny

So, I might be a little calmer now. Well, calmer isn't quite the right term, I wasn't exactly agitated or hyper when I wrote this post this morning, but I was more "tense" if that makes sense.

My current situation (whether real or entirely in my mind, or a mix thereof) actually is parallel to what I experienced growing up. Then, there was a big dark secret that HAD to be kept, "or else", I was expected to create and maintain a public image that was different from the on-the-ground reality, any transgression was a "big deal" even if it really wasn't, and the "penalty" for a transgression was severe. When I was a kid, it was "dad's crossdressing", the image of the "perfect family and loving son", getting an A- on a test in school was a major failure on my part, and the punishment for such a major failure was being brutalized emotionally with the threat that it could turn physical, even though it almost never did (he would do things like grab me by the shirt collar and pull me close as if he were going to punch me out).

Now, the big secret is my time in the day hospital program and all of the other psych related things I have been through, seeing therapists and psychiatrists; the image I have to project is that of citizen/professional/neighbor/family member/good upstanding citizen; the failure was the failure to do that, instead "losing it" and ending up in said day program; the punishment is ... the fear that I will somehow be "cast out" of my life should the big secret be revealed.

When "calmer heads prevail" I can break it down like this. Yes, it is an embarrassing secret. Not something I would like to have known. BUT, it's also not exactly the "end of the world". Other people have done far worse things and managed to pull together their lives - committed crimes, destroyed marriages and families through substance abuse or gambling or infidelity, bankrupted themselves with compulsive spending, etc. - I know I'm putting "value judgments" on those acts, but ranking them like that sort of ... makes me feel better, I guess, whether or not it's really valid to do it like that. My public image, should the dark secret become known, would ???? I don't know. Maybe people are more accepting than I believe them to be? Maybe the majority of people would "understand" or at least not care?

And, the "big question" - COULD they and WOULD they be able to leave me out in the cold of my own life? Realistically, no. Sure, there are some people who could stop associating with me. That might be very painful emotionally. Could my boss fire me? Sure, anyone can be fired at any time (despite what some of us like to think, if they want you out, they will find an excuse sooner or later). Could they "take everything away from me"? Assets such as house, car, bank accounts, retirement fund? No. I would have to be significantly dysfunctional for that to happen.

All of this really is "in my mind". In real life, people now seem to look up to me as some kind of "winner" because of the way I have changed in 2 years - people keep telling me I'm "inspiring" or whatever. Of course, the inner voice always says "if you only knew the truth, you would recoil from me." Of course, the inner voice is FUBAR, so what does it know?

I need to make the inner voice match the outer reality. That is the crux of this situation, because I have been searching for "how" to do that for 2 years almost, and even though I make some progress, or even a lot of progress as in the recent past few months, things apparently always "fall apart" again.

I don't like this. I don't want to keep doing this - I only make myself very unhappy. I just don't seem to know how to "turn it off".

I'm not so sure there's anything at all "wrong" with you. PTSD is a natural response to unnatural situations. You seem to be responding to your hospitalization the same way you responded to your dad's cross-dressing. For you, paranoia is a natural response. In reality, you are a good citizen/professional/neighbor/family member, etc.

What you are feeling reminds of when I was teaching. It's almost like being a celebrity. When you are in public, you see people who know you, but you don't necessarily remember them (hundreds of students, parents, etc.) and they judge how you dress, what you're doing, how you're doing it, etc. Anything done in the privacy of your own home is fodder for public consumption if it gets out. It sucks but it goes with the job. There will always be those who judge us and make less of us because we're more normal than they are - remember, PTSD is a normal reaction. I worry about the people who are mentally ill who don't seek treatment. I think you will find that there are more people out there who respect you for your courage to ask for help than those that would think less of you. PTSD is not for wimps and pussies.

[Open Eyes]

I agree with Werewoman. You had this presented to you when you were young and
a part of you believes that it is a horrible thing for people to know the reality of
who you really are, but that was imprinted in you from your father. That was always
there in you but since you experienced a trauma and it affected you so profoundly,
even when you were told to give up as you have discribed, that too sent a message
that you broke and now are not good for anything. That is now a big worry for you
because of how PTSD magnifies how we feel about things.

What I find interesting is how you were treated verses how I was treated. I broke and
needed to slow down and take a break, yet was told that I could not do that in many ways. That reflects on my childhood where I had some big challenges, my family had issues too, had to look good to the public, and though I struggled I had to keep finding a way to keep going then too.

Most families have dysfunction and everyone has their public persona they keep up
for appearances. I think you would be cured if you got to be a fly and buzz around
and get to see what people hide behind their closed doors Mowtown.

You have been working out and taking care of yourself and other's have noticed and say you inspire them right? What that means is they need to or wish they could get motivated like you are as they have their own issues you don't know about, much of which is their own self esteem problems that you don't see.

If you don't believe me take time to search the forums because this is it, this is real life Mowtown, so many people that struggle and have family issues, difficult histories they
struggle with too. You are more "normal" than you think you are.

[Teacake]

Originally Posted by Parley

I hate to sound stupid but I don't understand why so many people feel guilt. I know I have guilt over what happened in my life but I had no guilt for how I acted. Now granted, I never went in a psych ward. I was on the outside fantasizing about it and couldn't wait for my time. That's messed up but I don't feel guilty for that. Is it because I didn't break down? would I be worse off if I had of? Its a bit confusing to me because it's no better from this side. On this side of the fence~ I maintained stability but I'm a lot older now and I'm going back to get my break. I do not look forward to a psych ward and I would consider it ultimate act of betrayal on my therapist part because I've been stable too long to end up there.

I guess I don't expect anyone to really have the answer. I just want to say that dealing with it now might have been the best thing in the world for you. I had stability but only because I got lucky and was able to create an environment that works for me. There was nothing I could do then but now that I can, I see the monkey breaking my back.

Guilt, shame and embarrassment. All self-conscious emotions. My personal opinion is its a glitch in the wiring. Maybe our ancestors survived near misses because they were painfully ashamed of having almost bit the dust. Maybe its just wonkery.

What I tell people who complain about guilt and shame to me is that its just part of the physiology of traumático stress. People feel GUILT when a tornado blows their house away. It makes no sense. But didn't we build religion around that? Thats where wondering "what did I do" leads. Superstition and rigidity. Dont go there. Just. Do. Not.

Sometimes i feel so sorry. For what I am. Huh? What does that even mean? It can mean I am sorry for fallen humanity. Sorry I came here. Sorry I still cherish my ego. Anything.

Its ok when I can act on the Impulse to give it all away, my money and time and whatever i have. Trauma has made monks añd nuns óf many.