[MotownJohnny]

Thank you, thank you, thank you again to OpenEyes, who has provided a link in another thread to a site from Britain about PTSD from bullying. Seeing the information put out in such a concise and ordered way has really opened my eyes to some aspects of my own situation that I guess I hadn't really put into context yet.

Out of my entire life experience, I can legitimately say that presenting at a psychiatrists office with the thought I was going to finally deal with my issues, only to be labeled "crazy" and be told that essentially, my life was over, I was hopeless, was the single most defining traumatic moment in my life, worse than any one single thing my father did to me in terms of the damage it did.

Differences between mental illness and psychiatric injury

The person who is being bullied will eventually say something like "I think I'm being paranoid..."; however they are correctly identifying hypervigilance, a symptom of PTSD, but using the popular but misunderstood word paranoia. The differences between hypervigilance and paranoia make a good starting point for identifying the differences between mental illness and psychiatric injury.

Paranoia

Hypervigilance

Paranoia is a form of mental illness; the cause is thought to be internal, eg a minor variation in the balance of brain chemistry

*Hypervigilance is a response to an external event (violence, accident, disaster, violation, intrusion, bullying, etc) and therefore an injury

*paranoia tends to endure and to not get better of its own accord
wears off (gets better), albeit slowly, when the person is out of and away from the situation which was the cause
the paranoiac will not admit to feeling paranoid, as they cannot see their paranoia.
the hypervigilant person is acutely aware of their hypervigilance, and will easily articulate their fear, albeit using the incorrect but popularised word "paranoia"
sometimes responds to drug treatment
drugs are not viewed favourably by hypervigilant people, except in extreme circumstances, and then only briefly; often drugs have no effect, or can make things worse, sometimes interfering with the body's own healing process
the paranoiac often has delusions of grandeur; the delusional aspects of paranoia feature in other forms of mental illness, such as schizophrenia
the hypervigilant person often has a diminished sense of self-worth, sometimes dramatically so
the paranoiac is convinced of their self-importance
the hypervigilant person is often convinced of their worthlessness and will often deny their value to others
paranoia is often seen in conjunction with other symptoms of mental illness, but not in conjunction with symptoms of PTSD
hypervigilance is seen in conjunction with other symptoms of PTSD, but not in conjunction with symptoms of mental illness
the paranoiac is convinced of their plausibility
the hypervigilant person is aware of how implausible their experience sounds and often doesn't want to believe it themselves (disbelief and denial)
the paranoiac feels persecuted by a person or persons unknown (eg "they're out to get me")
the hypervigilant person is hypersensitized but is often aware of the inappropriateness of their heightened sensitivity, and can identify the person responsible for their psychiatric injury
sense of persecution
heightened sense of vulnerability to victimisation
the sense of persecution felt by the paranoiac is a delusion, for usually no-one is out to get them
the hypervigilant person's sense of threat is well-founded, for the serial bully is out to get rid of them and has often coerced others into assisting, eg through mobbing; the hypervigilant person often cannot (and refuses to) see that the serial bully is doing everything possible to get rid of them
the paranoiac is on constant alert because they know someone is out to get them
the hypervigilant person is on alert in case there is danger
the paranoiac is certain of their belief and their behaviour and expects others to share that certainty
the hypervigilant person cannot bring themselves to believe that the bully cannot and will not see the effect their behaviour is having; they cling naively to the mistaken belief that the bully will recognise their wrongdoing and apologise
Other differences between mental illness and psychiatric injury include:

Mental illness

Psychiatric injury

the cause often cannot be identified
the cause is easily identifiable and verifiable, but denied by those who are accountable
the person may be incoherent or what they say doesn't make sense
the person is often articulate but prevented from articulation by being traumatised
the person may appear to be obsessed
the person is obsessive, especially in relation to identifying the cause of their injury and both dealing with the cause and effecting their recovery
the person is oblivious to their behaviour and the effect it has on others
the person is in a state of acute self-awareness and aware of their state, but often unable to explain it
the depression is a clinical or endogenous depression
the depression is reactive; the chemistry is different to endogenous depression
there may be a history of depression in the family
there is very often no history of depression in the individual or their family
the person has usually exhibited mental health problems before
often there is no history of mental health problems
may respond inappropriately to the needs and concerns of others
responds empathically to the needs and concerns of others, despite their own injury
displays a certitude about themselves, their circumstances and their actions
is often highly sceptical about their condition and circumstances and is in a state of disbelief and bewilderment which they will easily and often articulate ("I can't believe this is happening to me" and "Why me?" - click here for the answer)
may suffer a persecution complex
may experience an unusually heightened sense of vulnerability to possible victimisation (ie hypervigilance)
suicidal thoughts are the result of despair, dejection and hopelessness
suicidal thoughts are often a logical and carefully thought-out solution or conclusion
exhibits despair
is driven by the anger of injustice
often doesn't look forward to each new day
looks forward to each new day as an opportunity to fight for justice
is often ready to give in or admit defeat
refuses to be beaten, refuses to give up

My entire childhood experience with my father has faded enough that, while it still hurts, it did not have the immediate force of that one moment in a psychiatrist's office.

These two charts just clarify things in my mind SO MUCH. I identify so many of the things I do on the PTSD side of the chart.

[Fresia]

You are SO not crazy! That is why it is so important we listen to our true inner selves, and not self chatter, when we hear stuff like this, disregard what they, and try to know, that though we know need help of some nature, the docs are human, are not God, are not perfect, and can make huge mistakes; we need to throw out unsupportive crap like this and find someone who will support us. Even when it seems like there is no hope, there is always a bit of it hiding somewhere. It is just a matter of finding the right person, or doc, or T, or provider that can support us the way we need. It just may take a little more effort to find it, but it is out there, hanging by a thread albeit but it is hanging.... that is why we say, hang in there. My theory anyhow.

I can completely understand why you found this so important, to distinguish between hypervigilance and paranoia, and about psychic injury and mental illness. I had not known about hypervigilance before, but it is interesting. I hope you found some solace as I did with it not only being illuminating but relieving in a way too; as with these distinctions, it helped me to know I was not completely losing my mind but was in fact reactionary in some instances, while further helping me to understand the nature and pathology behind how attributes/events could characterized to be helped. Lots of discussion to be had in the future with T; she has NO IDEA what is in store for her next week.

I greatly appreciate you taking the time to research it and in posting this. Thank you too Open Eyes for inspiring this thread. So informative you two. Truly, thank you! Wishing you well MJ on your path of discovery. Take good care meanwhile and thanks again!

[Hellion]

To me that seems too simplified....for instance people with paranoia issues can have diminished self confidence as well, its not always 'delusions of granduer'. My hyperviglence has not mellowed out since being away from the situation that caused my PTSD, if anything its only gradually gotten worse. Also I can see how hypervigelance could contribute to paranoia or at least some paranoid thoughts(due to the brain trying to make sense of the hypervigalent feeling) for some people. Also people with paranoia can be concious they have issues with paranoia and may sometimes be able to identify when they might be experiencing paranoia rather than a real danger or people really out to get them....people with issues like that are not constantly in a psychotic state you know.

Also paranoia isn't a mental illness in itself, it can be a symptom of mental illnesses but by its-self its not considered a mental illness.

Also illness, injury....whats it matter either way it effects me just as bad. Could be said plenty of other mental illnesses are more mental injuries as well, like depression since external factors heavily contibute, also though PTSD has genetic/enivoronmental factors aside from the trauma itself as well....hence why two people could experience the same trauma and only one might develop PTSD.

[venusss]

I never liked the "disorder" tag in PTSD because it feels like saying "you should be able to get over it, but you have broken brain..."

would you call it illness if somebody falls and breaks a bone? Broken soul is just the same. Normal reaction/consequence to effed up events.

[splitimage]

I was recently at an advisory council meeting at my psych hospital (I'm on the council) and we heard a panel from hospital staff on trauma informed care. One of the psychiatrist's who heads one of the few programs that explicitely deal with trauma, said the focus needs to shift from asking "What's wrong with you?" to "What happened to you?"

I thought that was good to hear coming from a psychiatrist.

splitimage

[Open Eyes]

I can't blame anyone for disliking the term "disorder", I doubt that will be changed anytime soon. I would prefer that PTSD be called PTSI for "injury" instead of disorder. I think that using "injury" will change the way others look at PTSD, and respond to it in more understanding ways rather than the way many fail to understand or react to someone with PTSD.

I don't see any reason that when someone presents as a trauma patient, the information that I posted can't be shared with family members and even the staff where a patient is being treated. I think it is important to even make sure to explain to a patient themselves that they are struggling the way they are because they are injured and that with time they "can" do better.

I have the same challenge as Mowtown where I have a lot of anger and stress about how I was traumatized even further, misdiagnosed and misunderstood by people who are supposed to be professionals. I was especially traumatized about having drugs pushed at me and being told that I "had to" be on drugs in order to be able to get out of that psych ward.

My older sister should have "never" been allowed to visit me and treat me so badly either. You do "not" tell a trauma patient that suffered so much loss that they are wrong to be so upset and will lose their marriage, family, home and everything they have. And then leave the trauma patient feeling that where they are is "punishment" and they are "trapped" there.

It is so hard "with an understanding of PTS" to see my records that discuss what I was saying and yet how the psychiatrist literally punished me by saying I had a personality disorder as if I had "no right" to be traumatized by experiencing so much loss.

I understand how you feel Mowtown, being told you now need to quit your job and give up? That is very much what I had been told but a little differently, that is PUNISHING someone, not HELPING them.

I will never forget when my husband came to pick me up, HE WAS ANGRY, he was not nice or CARING. That long drive home he was so angry with me, mean to me, acted towards me as though I had done something "very wrong". That is how everyone treated me.

When I finally began to learn "more" which was mostly on my own, I arranged a meeting with the second psychiatrist about my records and he did put in writing that I did that and his diagnosis was PTSD, that he could do nothing about what had been in my records from the other professionals that had treated me, but he could have written down what he said to me just before I left, but didn't take anytime to explain, " OE is very misunderstood", he could have said in my records the "truth", that he said to me in person, that I went to the wrong place for "trauma treatment" and even that I was misunderstood there and that I was also there "too long" too.

When I was told that my GP should be able to continue to prescribe Klonopin for me, I did not deserve to be in an examining room with a doctor I had been seeing and trusted for so long suddenly look at me in so much anger and throw my records at me the way he did, telling me how mentally disordered and disturbed I was and he would not prescribe anything to me.

I was so traumatized from that and had all I could do to get out to my car with these records and sit in my car shaking trying to see what was in my records that was "so bad" that a doctor I had trusted and even liked would treat me so badly all of a sudden.

Then, because I "only" was told I had PTSD, and had signed a release, my lawyer had these records, what was he now going to think?

I had so many people ANGRY at me, ANGRY for an injury that was misdiagnosed in ways that were so unfair to me.

I almost was not here to write this because of that. It was wrong to hurt me and treat me so badly "for a very real injury" that really WAS NOT MY FAULT.

When I read this material about being trapped with bullies, trapped with abuse or in an abusive scenario, it was never ending for me. I have been treated so badly for a "real injury", something I genuinely could not help, it's so hard to wrap my brain around it all to be honest. It made me worse, and the worse I got, the more crippled I got, the worse I was treated too.

When it talks about "I can't believe this is happening to me and "why" in this information? I feel that way 24/7, I wake up in the middle of the night with it, and I wake up every morning feeling like that, and I never feel rested either.

I "am" however very grateful for this information and the individuals that took time to learn about me and many others like me. I remember the first time I read it Mowtown, I felt just like you, so relieved that someone of "authority" could explain me the way I had needed it. Yes, everyone around me would tell me "stop being so paranoid", and they really treated me badly, and there really is a difference and it isn't fair to the person struggling to be treated as though it is "their fault", or that somehow they will be punished.

OE

[Open Eyes]

Mowtown,

With those two lists as is what you posted in this thread, when you are treated as though you are paranoid, or mentally ill, instead of being validated for the list of how you really struggle, it triggers you, and anyone who struggles with "real PTSD".

When someone struggles with PTSD and also has a troubled history, they can have a lot of flashbacks from the past and that is because of the "theme" or "kind of abuse" they suffered and how they were "hurt" at the time.

The important thing to remember about PTSD and injuries is "refuses to be beaten, refuses to give up". So, a past where someone was "injured" yet didn't really experience full blown PTSD, did "survive" and move forward because of that "refusal to give up" can be present and yet confusing to someone who begins to suffer from PTSD.

Having an "authority" figure that is entrusted to "help a trauma patient with PTS" that does not really "understand" PTSD who treats the patient "wrong", can be an added injury that is unfair to the trauma patient who is suffering from PTS. That happened to you Mowtown, and it also happened to me and I am sure it has happened to others as well. The unfortunate thing about that is that a patient can then stray away from reaching out for help, when they do need help and support, but the "right kind of help" and "support".

If a treatment provider, be it a psychiatrist or psychologist has more expertise in treating mentally ill patients as is described in the list you provided, they may treat the PTSD/trauma patient as though they are mentally ill and mistaken the symptoms of PTSD as other mental illnesses, including Bipolar Disorder, or major depressive disorder, or Borderline Personality disorder, or Accute Anxiety disorder, or Parnoia verses Hyper Vigilance.

And as is explained in the material I posted in another thread that you are taking this information from, if a person who has PTS and is suddenly put in with genuinely mentally ill people in a psych ward that can be even "more traumatic" to an already traumatized patient. That was the case with myself, as well as for you too Mowtown.

I even have described how in that kind of environment I was empathetic to the concerns of the other patients despite my own injury. That could have been clearly recognized by the other health professionals, IF they knew what to look for "as I had needed desperately at the time".

If professionals are allowed to treat a trauma patient as a patient with paranoia even considering them to have "delusions of grandeur" and also allow family members to treat the "victim of trauma" that way as well, the "victim of trauma" will get worse and it will be ABUSE. That is the "last and worst and cruelest" thing to do with a trauma patient. That is how I was treated "over and over and over again". In fact the person/people who caused so much damage to me that it traumatized me have consistently treated me that way and still do. For myself, I have not been able to "leave the place of trauma".

Here is the link again for anyone who needs to read more about PTSD, verses Mental illnesses.

Complex post traumatic stress disorder (complex ptsd, pdsd, shell shock, nervous shock, combat fatigue), symptoms and the difference between mental illness and psychiatric injury explained

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by Fresia

You are SO not crazy! That is why it is so important we listen to our true inner selves, and not self chatter, when we hear stuff like this, disregard what they, and try to know, that though we know need help of some nature, the docs are human, are not God, are not perfect, and can make huge mistakes; we need to throw out unsupportive crap like this and find someone who will support us. Even when it seems like there is no hope, there is always a bit of it hiding somewhere. It is just a matter of finding the right person, or doc, or T, or provider that can support us the way we need. It just may take a little more effort to find it, but it is out there, hanging by a thread albeit but it is hanging.... that is why we say, hang in there. My theory anyhow.

I can completely understand why you found this so important, to distinguish between hypervigilance and paranoia, and about psychic injury and mental illness. I had not known about hypervigilance before, but it is interesting. I hope you found some solace as I did with it not only being illuminating but relieving in a way too; as with these distinctions, it helped me to know I was not completely losing my mind but was in fact reactionary in some instances, while further helping me to understand the nature and pathology behind how attributes/events could characterized to be helped. Lots of discussion to be had in the future with T; she has NO IDEA what is in store for her next week.

I greatly appreciate you taking the time to research it and in posting this. Thank you too Open Eyes for inspiring this thread. So informative you two. Truly, thank you! Wishing you well MJ on your path of discovery. Take good care meanwhile and thanks again!

Fresia,

If you can print the link I have provided above again, you can bring the entire information to your therapist to review. Fair warning, it is 24 pages long, but is worth having for yourself and your T should have it as well.

[MotownJohnny]

Hi, all. I only browsed the thread a couple of times today, while I was on the go. I'm only here a few minutes now, I have a project from yesterday outside I have to finish, as they are predicting rain tomorrow for us.

It is SO validating for me just to read what several of you have written, because it's like "someone really gets it." And, the people who "should have" didn't get it at all. Honestly, I can see how that could happen, because the symptoms of PTSD during an acute crisis are pretty much the same, superficially, as those of bipolar and a lot of other mental illnesses. BUT, but, but ... if you start delving deeper, you can separate out the strands of thoughts, emotions, and events, and start to get a much more accurate picture of the situation.

It's interesting to me that "grandiosity" is one of the hallmarks of paranoia - because belive me, I never had any aspect of that. In fact, it was, always, the opposite, I always had such an extremely low opinion of myself, it didn't take much to push me over the edge to the point I believed that I was absolutely at the level of the worst of our society.

What I object to in my own situation is the SPEED at which I was pronounced bipolar - approximately 5 minutes into the very first appointment, and after an additional 5 minutes to read my responses on her intake forms. I deserved better than that - ANYONE and EVERYONE deserves better than that out of an medical professional if there is the slightest hint of doubt as to a diagnosis. I found, later, that this doctor did NOT listen to their patients, at all - had the doctor listened to just a couple of the things I said, I never would have been placed into a position of having to decide what was the lesser of two very bad choices, risk "defying" the quote "recommendation" unquote that I check myself into a psych ward, or the "lesser" threat of doing the day program, or "risk it" and see what this doctor would do if I refused. So, I made a choice, the one I thought would give me the best opportunity to "cover up" what was happening. I was afraid that, if I didn't comply, the doctor would report me to the authorities as "dangerous to self" and I would be dragged off from home or work. And, I couldn't think of any possible scenario under which THAT could be covered up. So, I caved, and very quickly, in about 12 hours. And I have regretted that ever since, especially since both my therapist and the current, "great" psychiatrist said there wasn't enough cause to do what I feared.

Was it paranoia? Well, until a few days ago, I did think my fear of the MH system was paranoia - it is very unlikely I will ever be in that situation again. But, I did not fully understand what paranoid meant, in the technical sense. The article really cleared that up for me.

Gotta go - THANK YOU all SO MUCH!!! It really does help. More later I hope.

[A Red Panda]

Hypervigilance is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo annoying! I've got a massive startle reflex... I get laughed at a lot because of it. I've learned to laugh it off but I always feel embarassed. It's a pretty extreme reaction (yet doesn't often involve screaming). I know that my hypervigilance is not paranoia - because I'm not out looking for things, I just notice everything without really paying attention to it (?? that looks like it makes no sense but it makes sense to me!) and then if there's anything "off" I become aware of it and am like "...!!!!!"

I think that if Complex PTSD was actually in the DSM I would have that as a diagnosis along with bipolar 2 (For me, I am fully accepting of having bipolar, but I AM quite specific on having the "2" included!). I never had anything really life-threatening (well, I suppose in some ways I have, but not like... not like anything serious or really abusive) but I have had a consistent life of stress and fear and emotional neglect/abuse. I'm acutely aware of how my past has affected me, and although I accept it as being something that happened to me, (as opposed to being born with it, like I was with the bp2), I still can't really accept that it isn't my own fault for not being able to prevent it, or for not being able to totally make it go away (although I do have pretty good management of it and have made looooads of progress over the last decade!)

It was a good read, that article. I've probably gone right off topic but these were my thoughts while reading!

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

I never liked the "disorder" tag in PTSD because it feels like saying "you should be able to get over it, but you have broken brain..."

would you call it illness if somebody falls and breaks a bone? Broken soul is just the same. Normal reaction/consequence to effed up events.

If PTSD is a normal reaction to effed up events, why is it not everyone develops PTSD when exposed to trauma?

Also though I don't see how considering it a disorder implies 'you should be able to get over it' it more seems to imply....'there is an issue that effects the way your brain works' and studies show PTSD certainly effects how the brain works and not in a good way.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Mowtown,
With those two lists as is what you posted in this thread, when you are treated as though you are paranoid, or mentally ill, instead of being validated for the list of how you really struggle, it triggers you, and anyone who struggles with "real PTSD".

And how exactly is it people with mental illnesses and paranoia are supposed to be treated...being dis-validated and blamed for their struggles? Why should validation for how you really struggle be reserved for people with PTSD but with-held from people with other mental disorders?

I have PTSD, I don't see how it is not a disorder, I also have other mental illnesses have since before I developed PTSD...and yeah its nice to have validation for struggles those cause rather than being blamed for exibiting symptoms....just like its nice to have that for the PTSD.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by Hellion

If PTSD is a normal reaction to effed up events, why is it not everyone develops PTSD when exposed to trauma?

Also though I don't see how considering it a disorder implies 'you should be able to get over it' it more seems to imply....'there is an issue that effects the way your brain works' and studies show PTSD certainly effects how the brain works and not in a good way.

Upon some level of trauma... everybody has some level of PTSD. The level of overcoming it depends on many factors... and one of them is actually having support network. And some just don't talk about it so much. Ya think holocaust survivors get over it "just fine"? War children of everywhere? Some people just don't talk about their inner struggles. Some just push themselves hard to appear well, but if you know them closer ya know there is a lot trouble beneath. Lot of people are lucky to have support network to lean on, a faith or whatever to help them through...

Some people fall of heights and escape with few bruises. That is exception.

Breaking bone affects the bone structure. And it is yet not illness or disorder. Neuroplasticity can reverse a lot, just like you can heal a broken bone.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

Upon some level of trauma... everybody has some level of PTSD. The level of overcoming it depends on many factors... and one of them is actually having support network. And some just don't talk about it so much. Ya think holocaust survivors get over it "just fine"? War children of everywhere? Some people just don't talk about their inner struggles. Some just push themselves hard to appear well, but if you know them closer ya know there is a lot trouble beneath. Lot of people are lucky to have support network to lean on, a faith or whatever to help them through...

Some people fall of heights and escape with few bruises. That is exception.

Breaking bone affects the bone structure. And it is yet not illness or disorder. Neuroplasticity can reverse a lot, just like you can heal a broken bone.

Everything I have read and learned in taking psychology classes in college indicates not everyone exposed to trauma develops PTSD. It takes everyone a bit of time to recover from trauma and they will have anxiety, trouble sleeping, feel depressed and what not for a time think its called acute stress syndrome or something but its not a disorder...It becomes PTSD when none of that wears off and you keep feeling worse, not better. Also there where many people exposed to the trauma that caused my PTSD and even some kids who where in the classroom where things really got grapic and there wasn't just the fear of getting shot....didn't develop PTSD so obviously not everyone exposed to trauma develops it, having a good support network is said to decrease the likelihood of a person developing PTSD I did not have that.

Also the brain and bones are very different things, I doubt the brain can be fixed just like a broken bone....if anything broken bones are much simpler to deal with. Also though not all broke bones heal right and people who have them will still have significant pain in that area....but that doesn't happen to everyone who breaks a bone. Not everyone develops PTSD that doesn't mean trauma doesn't effect everyone who experiences it and isn't painful, However I saw people able to go on with their lives and even try to find the light in the terrible thing that caused my PTSD of course it will remain in their memory and what not but no, it did not screw them up the way it did me though I doubt i am the only one who developed it but plenty did not but that doesn't mean they where less traumatized than me or 'didn't have it as bad'..., it screwed me up, and I couldn't even complete college because of it.

[MotownJohnny]

Originally Posted by Hellion

And how exactly is it people with mental illnesses and paranoia are supposed to be treated...being dis-validated and blamed for their struggles? Why should validation for how you really struggle be reserved for people with PTSD but with-held from people with other mental disorders?

I have PTSD, I don't see how it is not a disorder, I also have other mental illnesses have since before I developed PTSD...and yeah its nice to have validation for struggles those cause rather than being blamed for exibiting symptoms....just like its nice to have that for the PTSD.

I think you are on track about something here, Hellion - and it is a theme that has been foremost in my mind for almost 2 years now - my desire not to be labeled or identified in any way as "mentally ill". My reaction upon being told I was bipolar II was immediate, and extremely strong - because of the stereotypes I had of mentally ill people, mixed with the whole issue of my father, how I was raised, my own repugnance of his mental condition and behaviors, combined with my "programming" to be perfect, even though that is completely unattainable, all blended in my mind into this melange of fear and panic.

I didn't want to be identified with, labeled as, associated with, "mental illness" in any way. In fact, at many points early on in my experience, I would tell myself I had to "act normal" - be sociable, outgoing, appear happy, try to convince the world I was the "picture of mental health". And I kept the entire "crazy" side of me as hidden as possible, to great extremes (and yes, I did go to extremes, like getting a second and then third cell phone, a new safe deposit box at a different bank just for certain documents, so that should I die or be incapacitated, no one would "find them" in my regular box, etc.) And I also found myself very keenly listening to any comments about mental health I heard, whether in person or in society as a whole, from the media, whatever. And, five months into my "experience", mental health really came front and center with the massacre at Sandy Hook, and it was discussed for days and days at all levels of power and society.

And, very ironic, my last therapy session before Christmas, my therapist sprang a bombshell on me - instead of just talking, she said she wanted to tell me something, and took the entire hour session explaining why she felt I did not have bipolar, but instead had PTSD. And I literally broke down, and I remember driving home that night, a cold December night with a biting wind, scudding clouds, and snowflakes, and being kind of numb and yet kind of giddy, I felt like my "sentence had been commuted". All along, I felt like a criminal anyway for all of this, so I actually talked about the entire thing in those terms for the longest time - I would say to myself or my therapist "when I was in the slammer" or "when I was serving my time" instead of "in the hospital" or "in the day program". And, three months later, when a new psychiatrist confirmed the therapist's opinion and also said PTSD, I left her office after an hour and half of discussion, on Good Friday no less, a warm, sunny day, our first one in 2013, and I was literally and openly joyous, like I just won the lotto or something.

I've tried, but without omitting what I said, thought, and felt, to describe in my narratives about my experience what happened the way it did, and why it did. But I have tried to be cautious to not offend people with bipolar or other conditions, although I have on quite a few occasions on this and other forums. And I am very sorry for that. I fully recognize that my own prejudices, bigotry against the mentally ill, has been very real. I think a lot of the line from a Michael Jackson song, 'They Don't Care About Us', where he sings about the accusations in the media at the time against him "I've been a victim of shame, you're putting me in a class with a bad name." And I realize that it is both wrong and hurtful to make it sound like PTSD is some "better" disease/disorder/syndrome/whatever to have, because somehow if we call it an "injury" rather than an "illness" it seems to imply that "it's not you're fault" - yet, as you point out, neither is bipolar, or schizophrenia, or any of them.

As I have pondered this for two years, in my mind, it comes down to one thing - anyone with any kind of "mental health condition" still gets a raw deal from society. No one would dream of making comments or treating cancer patients the way the mentally ill are treated - no one would force a Lou Gherig's sufferer to be put on a ventilator against their wishes "for their own good" - no one would allow it if someone tried. Yet, with mental illness, it's still all acceptable. Our society is very intolerant, and our media whips up the frenzy. Any mass shooting, and instantly, let's all speculate what mental illness the perpetrator had. They don't speculate whether or not thyroid disease or arthritis or a torn ACL or a brain tumor contributed in any way to the tragedy.

Yes, I do think it is wrong to try to create a "pecking order" of diseases and conditions, but in my mind, I did that right away when I heard PTSD. Honestly, until it came out of her mouth, I never considered that at all. The second it did, it was like, "hey, wait a minute, I'm not crazy after all." - because I was certainly, and am still to some extent, "buying into it" - the fear, the stigma, the whole ball of wax that is the "mental health experience."

So, I do apologize for my own behaviors. I try to NOT "be like that", but yet obviously, the entire concept of "it's a lesser disease" is forward in my mind. I guess I could say "too bad, some people win, some lose when the dice are rolled," but I don't believe it should be that way. I think the entire "community" from patients and families to the professionals, needs to be a lot more proactive yet about combating stigma, stereotypes, and fear. I NEVER would have felt the need to be so deeply "closeted" had I not felt that society would NOT give me a fair chance. And that is all I wanted - not special or preferential treatment, but to be allowed to live my life without being made to feel or feeling like I was either somehow "defective" or "flawed" and to not be prejudged when it came to things like employment or personal relationships.

So, I hope that helps, at least by way of explanation. Sorry if I offended.

[venusss]

Also there where many people exposed to the trauma that caused my PTSD and even some kids who where in the classroom where things really got grapic and there wasn't just the fear of getting shot....didn't develop PTSD so obviously not everyone exposed to trauma develops it, having a good support network is said to decrease the likelihood of a person developing PTSD I did not have that.

if you don't fix broken bone straight away it gets messy.

And you say they didn't develop any form of PTSD... how do you know... and don't say they "seem just fine". I knew few war children from Yugoslavia, who seemed just fine. Until you get to know them and seen how much they drink, how they desperatelly chase for a partner, are hyperreligious and make some very odd decisions. Sure they were functional on the surface...but happy and just fine they were not. Unless you know the person deeply, you cannot tell. And many cannot simply "afford" to be less then functional.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

if you don't fix broken bone straight away it gets messy.

And you say they didn't develop any form of PTSD... how do you know... and don't say they "seem just fine". I knew few war children from Yugoslavia, who seemed just fine. Until you get to know them and seen how much they drink, how they desperatelly chase for a partner, are hyperreligious and make some very odd decisions. Sure they were functional on the surface...but happy and just fine they were not. Unless you know the person deeply, you cannot tell. And many cannot simply "afford" to be less then functional.

Even if you do fix it straight away it can get messy, my brother still has pain from broken bones he got from falling off a cliff. Also there aren't really different forms of PTSD except some people develop it from multiple or ongoing trauma vs. a sudden event. Not developing PTSD is not the same thing as being 'just fine' what I am saying is PTSD litterally prevents people from going on with their life due to being 'stuck' in the trauma for a significant period of time and not being able to come to closure and having their daily life impaired/negatively effected by symptoms that if anything persist rather than diminish...being exposed to trauma in general does not do that to everyone.

Substance abuse alone is not PTSD, though it certainly can go along with it...but one does not have to have PTSD to use drugs to cope. For PTSD one has to fit a certain amount of symptoms and the symptoms are ongoing...not acute things immediately after the trauma that is how its diagnosed. Also how do you define functional? and lots of people who experience the same or simular traumas do develop PTSD, its just not the case with everyone exposed to trauma....PTSD is certainly a much larger risk in areas that experience a lot of violence so it will exist on a larger scale, but it would likely be inaccurate to assume every single individual there would have PTSD.

Functional on the surface is certainly not the same as being functional in my opinion, that is more putting on an exausting act for a short time and then being completely exausted and feeling like a mental wreck when you can finally get a little while alone...trouble is the act gets harder to put on, and you can only do it so long before getting overwhelmed with stress at least that is what happens with me. The people you describe probably do have PTSD, the people I am talking about aren't really like what you describe, one of them being my sister who was at the school that day to...she does not have PTSD and she does not drink in excess alone, and is doing pretty well for herself and she would not be offended if I said that since its true...Me and her are close enough that i know, she hardly even smokes cigarettes.

But I cannot diagnose or undiagnose anyone....all I know is there is reasonable evidence to suggest trauma does not always result in PTSD..doesn't mean I am in any position to judge whether or not anyone has it.

[A Red Panda]

Originally Posted by Hellion

If PTSD is a normal reaction to effed up events, why is it not everyone develops PTSD when exposed to trauma?

Also though I don't see how considering it a disorder implies 'you should be able to get over it' it more seems to imply....'there is an issue that effects the way your brain works' and studies show PTSD certainly effects how the brain works and not in a good way.

Not everyone develops it for various reasons - some are just more naturally resilent, others have a good support network. Some people are just more sensitive, emotional, emphathetic. Everyone has a breaking point, but just as everyone has differences in things like how athletic they are, or how fast their metabolisms are, what they find hilariously funny, we all have different threshholds in regards to how our minds respond to trauma.

I don't (personally) really see how that's something to question. Different people = different reactions.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

Not everyone develops it for various reasons - some are just more naturally resilent, others have a good support network. Some people are just more sensitive, emotional, emphathetic. Everyone has a breaking point, but just as everyone has differences in things like how athletic they are, or how fast their metabolisms are, what they find hilariously funny, we all have different threshholds in regards to how our minds respond to trauma.

I don't (personally) really see how that's something to question. Different people = different reactions.

Yes I am aware there are various reasons....not sure what you mean isn't something to question. I was not questioning the fact there are different reasons not everyone develops PTSD....even so it stops the brain from normal functioning or will further interfere with brain functioning if you already have mental issues....which is how I mean its not a normal reaction, I don't mean someone is a freak of nature if they develop PTSD, it is normal in the sense its not uncommon to get PTSD from trauma.

[venusss]

I guess it's about the semantics. I find the focus on the "disorder" and biological parts unhepful (especially since everything happens in brain, there is thing as neuroplasticity that leads to positive changes).

It would be interesting to see a study about one's perception of their problem (PTS/D) and rates of recovery.

[Open Eyes]

"It would be interesting to see a study about one's perception of their problem (PTS/D) and rates of recovery." quote VenusHalley

That is why I posted that information. It talks about perception, both on the part of the person struggling's perception of themselves, and how they are often wrongly perceived even by professionals.

[Open Eyes]

The important thing to understand is the "yet". Unfortunately, there is still so much we do not understand about the human brain, so when people seem "different" we deem them as
"disordered", and I agree, that isn't really helpful.

As we continue to understand why people experience different challenges, it will end up slowly becoming something society in general will slowly learn to understand better too.

This information I provided took a lot of time to study and finally understand PTS better and see the difference in what a person who struggles with PTS has to deal with verses someone who expresses similar symptoms but is not challenged with PTS, but instead something different.

[Teacake]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

I never liked the "disorder" tag in PTSD because it feels like saying "you should be able to get over it, but you have broken brain..."

would you call it illness if somebody falls and breaks a bone? Broken soul is just the same. Normal reaction/consequence to effed up events.

Some people say post traumatic stress syndrome.

Words are just words. Latest hospital says major recurring depressive disorder and borderline traits. Yup. Ptsd is major recurring depressive disorder and borderline traits. The only difference is when they think I'm a crypto veteran sneaking into a civilian hospital for nefarious purposes they are all afraid and paranoid I want to kill them. When they think I'm borderline they think they have to control my manipulative urges to shower at night by enforcing strict dorm boundaries and denying me towels.

I've gotten pretty good at guessing my dx by the histrionics of the stupider young nurses and "mental health workers". Adult men and medical doctors get me. And some lovely young nurses and mental health workers are uniformly courteous to all. These are fine people. I wish there were a God to bless them. There's just us. But you know, maybe if I try real hard to remember every pleasant and professional person and every act of dignified courtesy, I not only increase my serotonin, but just maybe we are all connected and in some.way They know They helped.