[(JD)]

I'm not sure why I was drawn to this forum to post this, as it could have gone into psychotherapy or depression more easily... but it's here I feel I need to put it. If someone can figure out why, feel free to post it

I'm frustrated a bit lately... and can't seem to break through what appears to be black and white thinking.... if I could, then I wouldn't be thinking that way?

Many say this thinking is what feeds depression.

My best has to be good enough: I can't do better. But my best really isn't getting the job done, and I must work on better. T says we don't stop doing what we know is right just because it isn't working... YET. I fall into sometimes wondering why keep doing the same thing with the same results.. isn't that stupidity? If not stupidity, it surely leads to frustration. Where is the grey area?

What's grey when you are between x and z and y is nowhere to be found? When for instance, a task that needs to be done but I can't get to it because other things in life interfere (i.e. dog poisioning) and the task, not having been done has now made a decision that is not changeable. What's the grey there? I had to do it, I didn't get it done, now I can't and I suffer the consequences. Just looks black and white to me.

That's the way life is... I try to ignore those things I don't get to do because I can't. But just today, as I just couldn't get to physical therapy nor to my psychologist's office for session, I realized as I moved about the house many things that were once on top of my list, that I never could get done, and are so low on the list now that they don't show up... things like the ice maker, and the car repair from the rear-ender I suffered in... December? and then there's the homeowners insurance policy changes... I have more important things like figuring out how to get the license tag back onto my car( worked on this for over 3 hours total in 2 days, and how to finally get fuel into the car (which I've been trying to for 5 days.)

I can't do it all. I can't complete all the things I need to get done to compete in life. To me, either it's done or it isn't... and the things that fall into the grey area are things still needing to be done ...forgotten, but not gone.

[SweetSunshine]

Sky I dont have any answers for you on this.. but I do want to say I understand. I know your on your own doing all this. But even being married .. I cant get him to help me with things that need done.. He doesnt see these things like I do.. like walls being wiped down. He knows I cant get on a ladder ( it puts my back out every time) And the reaching itsself puts me offbalance .. I have nearly nill equilibrium. Mopping my floors here doesnt get done nearly enough for me either. I try to Swiffer them.. but thats all I can do. I wish I could get down on my hands and knees the old fashioned way and give it a good scrubbin. I have no dishwasher.. no shower.. so everything is back work for me and its sooo painful. It doesnt get done near as often as it should and needs to. But I have to accept that. I cant afford a maid. I dont like a messy house.. but I live in one. Too much on our plates . Hope it helps to know your not alone.

I'm like Beth. I have no answers but I wanted you to know I understand.

Black and white thinking, for me, makes more sense. At least it's categorized.

The gray is what's confusing. It's blurry and hazy and I get lost.

But then sometimes just breathing is overwhelming.

((( _Sky )))

((( Beth )))

[(JD)]

We're supposed to breathe!

Thanks... seeing T today before he goes out of town... I think what I'm trying to deal with... How to NOT think in black and white so I can understand thinking with grey. I can't engage fully with grey areas, because I generally think in black and white ... hmmm it's like... the "grey" areas are color... and the only "colors" I have are black and white. (not all the time, but in reference to things of my own)

[Perna]

I use to get tangled in the black and white and not understanding where gray (my preferred spelling :-) was until I started to think along the lines of "perception". We only perceive that things are black and white at the moment, they "obviously" aren't really or everyone would see things the way we do? When I can't see things the way I "want" I either try "forcing" a perception change (have you ever climbed up on top of your bedroom dresser to think about Life? :-) or "borrowing" T's or my husband's perception and working toward seeing things "that" way. I use to not understand or agree with some of the things my T would say so I just assumed I wasn't ready yet and that I would see/understand them eventually and, lo and behold, a few hours, days, months later I'd have an "ah ha!" reaction and there it would be.

Five+ years ago my husband told me I didn't have an "I don't know" bucket LOL. I have to know the answer right away, can't be in doubt! It's heck when you're working through something and literally can't know the "answer" yet because you haven't gotten that far. So, I've been trying to remember that and work with that whenever I get anxious because I don't know something (or when I get to knowing "everything" when I don't actually :-) I love my husband when he tells me about myself becuase he is concrete enough for me to grab his ideas and use them to help myself. When I get anxious my speech gets tangled and my husband will say, "I don't hear any nouns" :-) and I'll know to stop, think about what I want to communicate, and then try again slower. When you can't imagine where you're "supposed" to get to, ask someone you trust and who you feel understands and then look at things from their point of view until you can see it too. It's like when you point to something you want someone to see? Kind of like pointing at a particular star or spot on the ocean where the dolphins are leaping? :-) The other people come over to where you are and sight down your arm to see if they can see what you're seeing?

[(JD)]

Thanks perna.

I am not experiencing exactly what you speak of, but I can see bits and pieces.

The only person IRL who I trust to know me is T. When it's a situation we've discussed, yes, I can refer to his words, accepting that his perception is correct... and run on my thoughts that he's given me. Otherwise,

I guess part of my problem is that usually I DO know the answer to so many things... and can come up with a myriad of possibilities for most. But then there are those areas... and I can't define them tonight, but... where obviously I've missed not only the boat but the dock as well.

But gray is black and white.

So you have to look closely at the black and at the white before you can see the gray. Really look... refrain from just glancing...there is so much there. It's never a simple as it seems.

Same with the things that don't seem to be working. The answer is there, really. Not that they aren't working but why. Doing the same thing over and over when it's not working is the only way to take a good look at the 'not working' so you can see what's there.

[(JD)]

Yes, I agree... retraining my brain. I know it's possible because I see grey for others quite well at times

[Fuzzybear]

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I'm frustrated a bit lately... and can't seem to break through what appears to be black and white thinking....

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sky, how do you know it is black and white thinking that is the problem here? What you describes sounds like it could very well be something else. Not every difficulty can be explained by black and white thinking, IMO.

I often have a problem with too much thinking "in the gray," which is counter to what many on psychcentral describe as being problematic for them. It's interesting to me. I see the black and white vs. gray as a means of categorizing. With gray thinking, you divide things into many categories (6 shades or gray, 100 shades of gray, or whatever suits your purpose). With black and white, you break things up into only 2 categories. That can actually be useful sometimes and not a negative thing. Like when you are going through a huge pile of junk in your basement and need to categorize things in either the "keep" pile (white) or the "get rid of" pile (black). In this instance, you can cause problems for yourself by having too many piles (too much gray thinking). You would end up having piles for "maybe" and "keep for a time but probably get rid of eventually" and "can't decide" and "wait to ask kids" etc. You never get through your task and end up paralyzed. So I think the trick is knowing when to use black and white thinking and when to use gray (and how many shades of gray to allow at that).

So interesting that you posted this, Sky. I just spoke with my T yesterday about my black and white thinking. I was getting so frustrated because I came to the realization that it is my way of thinking and relating. It is part of me, my personality-- how can I change something that is so embedded in who I am? It's not like it's a symptom, or a behavior, or even a thought that can be changed cognitively-- it's a whole process of thinking, behaving, and relating that normally gets started in childhood and continues through adulthoood. Mt T was pointing out my all or nothing pattern at one point in the session, and when I answered him, it was another extreme! I do it all the time!

Sky, I believe gray is the ability to hold and/or recognize mulitiple feelings for someone or something at the same time, and be comfortable with that. Gray isn't just the middle, but it's the notion of feeling comfortable in the middle. It's so hard-- how can we be comfortable in the center if we don't have the sides to cling to? The middle is a very scary place. There are things that seem much safer-- yes/no, black/white, all/nothing, attached/abandoned, love/hate, etc. Easier to feel each extreme, one at a time.

It is not stupidity on your part. How easy it is for me to explain all this... yet I can't do it either. Maybe I'm not ready to give up that safety yet. You are not stupid--if your thoughts and your feelings are disconnected, that doesn't make you stupid.

[(JD)]

good answers all.

I know that black and white thinking is one of those cognitive distortions we all can do without. CBT 101.

I can see many different scenarios, answers, solutions etc for everyone else... though I often post here just one main one... but for myself... hmmmm IDK I do sometimes figure out different ways things can be or end... so that's not black and white is it?

T says I run into difficulty... because my whole life is grey.... I do have needs that can't be met. I am doing my best but it needs more work.

I guess I approach these things from the emotional side at times: what good is doing my best or continuing to try if I still FEEL miserable? How many years do I have to FEEL miserable, even though I KNOW that in however many years more I MIGHT be better at handling these feelings??? Guess that the black and white again.

Doing your best is all you can do either in white, black or grey.

(((((((((((Sky)))))))))))