[Carmina]

I just let someone know I was feeling used by them and now I feel really awful. I hate myself and feel I should hurt myself. This is stupid but I do this every time. I'm crying and feel really bad inside.

I also feel like I've opened myself up and that makes me feel vulnerable.

[Teddy Bear]

I'm too much of a wus to stand up for myself good job

[Carmina]

I feel like I've done something bad though. I hate the idea of hurting someone elses feelings. This often leads me to giving in.

I feel physically sick and shaking right now - why does this trigger these feelings?

[Purple,Violet,Blue]

Sorry to hear that. Don't hurt yourself, if you can possibly avoid it.

It's going to pass by morning.

I hate mornings, but it is true that what seemed so raw the night before is usually unrecognizable the next day.

You must have had a good reason for saying what you did.

[HowDoYouFeelMeow?]

I do, too, and also have PTSD. I feel like I'm being aggressive rather than assertive, even though I'm not.

[Carmina]

Originally Posted by Purple,Violet,Blue

Sorry to hear that. Don't hurt yourself, if you can possibly avoid it.

It's going to pass by morning.

I hate mornings, but it is true that what seemed so raw the night before is usually unrecognizable the next day.

You must have had a good reason for saying what you did.

Thanks - I am trying to calm myself now. I feel drained but not sure I can sleep. I have been trying some promethazine which seems to help.

[Carmina]

OK so I slept, and the person in question has got back to me and accepted my comments so while I still feel a bit tender and uneasy the sense of panic and doom has worn off.

I have to explore this further though, why do we do this? Rationally I know I had a valid point but the irrational part of me just goes to pieces if I try and stand up for myself when it's for me (let's be clear, I can be very assertive when it comes to the needs of others such as my students or political causes). I know how to do the assertiveness thing, but as soon as I open my mouth about my needs straight away I start to think it must be me that's wrong and go to pieces, and if the person at the other end retaliates I'm devastated and usually completely give in and go beyond what is needed to make up to them.

standing up for myself.. for me, it feels like I don't deserve to

it feels like... well, because my abusers shut me up and not let me talk, I don't have the right now- it's been taken away from me

and on the odd ocasion I do, my first thought after is what would my abusers think?. they would hate me for this- and I get all anxious and upset

then realise that their's a good chance they'd never find out, and try to calm down about it.

[Shazerac]

Part of the curse of having PTSD is that feeling of guilt when we DO stand up for ourselves. It can be extremely triggering. But it's also growth. The first time I stood up for myself after working on it in therapy I almost literally crapped my pants. I had to flee to the bathroom and had an explosive case of the runs. Sorry to mention something so gross, but it illustrates how difficult the process is. The good news is I got better at it very quickly.

[Spangle]

Because many of us were not ‘allowed’ to have any sort of an opinion on anything, when we do, it feels very alien & we are just not used to saying anything. We’ve been ignored & told we are not worthy of anything that it really does feel wrong. I’m pleased you were able to move through that horrible feeling you had & kept yourself safe too. Well done & hopefully it will be easier next time.

[Carmina]

With me it's not that I wasn't allowed but that I had a mum who had mental health issues of her own and whenever things got stressful would threaten to kill herself, which was sometimes a daily event (although it was all empty threats, she's still alive). So not only did I have to learn to keep my mouth shut and be very careful not to upset her (which required a lot of self monitoring and also learning to read emotions and behaviour), and to walk on eggshells around her, but also when she did blow up I felt to blame and carried that for a long time.

She also thought she was dying of cancer so would tell us she wasn't going to be around for long (which I think was a combination of her own depression - it does feel like a cancer eating away at you inside - and her own mum dying young of cancer).

I was also scared of her and my main nightmare had her in it, as she was just unpredictable and would sometimes blow up angrily.

[Shazerac]

Originally Posted by Carmina

With me it's not that I wasn't allowed but that I had a mum who had mental health issues of her own and whenever things got stressful would threaten to kill herself, which was sometimes a daily event (although it was all empty threats, she's still alive). So not only did I have to learn to keep my mouth shut and be very careful not to upset her (which required a lot of self monitoring and also learning to read emotions and behaviour), and to walk on eggshells around her, but also when she did blow up I felt to blame and carried that for a long time.

She also thought she was dying of cancer so would tell us she wasn't going to be around for long (which I think was a combination of her own depression - it does feel like a cancer eating away at you inside - and her own mum dying young of cancer).

I was also scared of her and my main nightmare had her in it, as she was just unpredictable and would sometimes blow up angrily.

That's an incredible load for child to bare. You said yourself "walking on eggshells." I grew up with an alcoholic mother and I had the same feelings. My problems weren't "important" in comparison. It took me decades and finally going to therapy to grow past that and start to have some semblance of a normal happy live and love.

I've had very vivid dreams where I was strangling my mother and they were quite disturbing. I finally came to believe that I was acting out my anger and feelings of abandonment in safe environment of my dreams. As I have gotten past that the dreams went away.

[Carmina]

Thanks

Sorry not having a good day today - I tried - did some baking and gardening and even a bit of vacuuming (which I haven't done for a few weeks) - but this is bringing everything back. I was just trying to eat a meal and every mouthful felt like I was swallowing poison.

Trying to swallow back down my memories - I want to just have nothing to carry for once

[Open Eyes]

Could it be that you are just more comfortable in the victim zone than taking the control when someone invades your boundaries?

[Carmina]

Not at all

[Purple,Violet,Blue]

Thanks for sharing your story, Carmina (and everyone else). That sounds horrible. It makes a lot of sense, what you're going through now.

One therapist I saw referred to a person with our experiences as 'an adapted child'. The phrase really got through to me, and I've thought of myself that way ever since.

An adapted child is one who's had no chance to develop their own sense of self. You might know the phrase already, but no therapist had used it with me.

With adapted children, usually, the childhood situation is so dire, they have no choice but to fit themselves around it. Trying to hold things together. Doing and saying whatever it takes to avert disaster. They become 'mis-shapen' (not the therapist's word).

They're not developing the same inner resources as a 'normal' child.

When I was little (nothing too graphic coming up) my father was always losing his job. We often completely ran out of money. Many times, we'd have to go to in-laws in the evening, and beg.

There would be blazing (sometimes violent) rows between my mother and father, about whose turn it was to go. It was an awful and humiliating thing, begging like that. Our relatives were embarrassed. Sometimes they'd say no.

My parents used to make me go too!

I was cute and they thought it would be 'easier'.

This is by no means the worst thing that happened to me, but it gives an idea of what my daily life was like. (Not every day was bad, but I'm sure you know that, in between, you're tense all the time, not knowing what's coming next).

Maybe you can see from looking at me as a child, as I can when picturing you, that there was no way that poor little thing could have been anything but deformed by the life they were forced to live.

Where is the space for them to say 'no'? How can they try anything out safely? The time they should be spending getting to know themselves, they're just surviving.

Well, anyway, I just thought I'd share that phrase 'adapted child', in case it strikes a chord with you too.

[Amethyst_Stargazer]

Originally Posted by Carmina

I just let someone know I was feeling used by them and now I feel really awful. I hate myself and feel I should hurt myself. This is stupid but I do this every time. I'm crying and feel really bad inside.

I also feel like I've opened myself up and that makes me feel vulnerable.

Yes in the past I've felt awful whenever I stood up for myself. Sometimes I even cried myself to sleep at night because I seriously hate hurting people's feelings. Trust me what you're feeling is normal. Just so you know though, your not a bad person. Please don't hurt yourself. If you ever need someone to talk to ever, don't hesitate to pm me.

[Halloweengirl]

I'm dealing with it right now. I'm angry about a way that a friend has been behaving towards me. I am clearly justified in saying something but I have not been able to. I must, though, as I am angry and it is unhealthy for me to not confront. It is, as you say, "standing upper myself". Terribly painful for me, when I am put in the position to have to do it. In my case, I am not worried about hurting the other person. I am afraid that they will be angry with me. Or worse - consider me to be crazy, dramatic, a problem... You see, this person means a lot to me but doesn't know me very well. She sees the obsessive, overthinking, long winded part of me. Not the part that agonizes over every word, feels guilty and humiliated every time they stick up for themselves, takes 6 hours to rite a note it would take someone else 15 minutes to write, bends over backwards to avoid conflict. Ahh. It stinks, but it has consumed me for a week. I just find it too painful to think about for more than a few minutes. But it is eating at me, just eating at me. And MUST be addressed.

[Sentimental_Blue]

Real family, real friends will understand the need to stand up for yourself.

I think the fear comes from being in so many situations where we've been let down or we haven't found those friends or family who will understand.

But rest assured, they are there. You have a right to feel good about yourself, real friends will understand.

[Werewoman]

I don't hate myself, I just get raging mad at the people who put me in a position to make me feel like I have to stand up for myself.

[Open Eyes]

It just seemed from what you have described that your mother's challenges caused you to become a codependent instead of you having the freedom to form your own identity and have your own life.

A child simply doesn't have the skills needed to be the caregiver and should not be expected of doing that for a parent. A child needs to have a parent that can help them develop their own identity and independence.

[Carmina]

I don't think that's the case, I'm not dependent on anyone and entirely have my own life.