T cant reach me...........

sittingatwatersedge · Aug 28, 2009, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenix7

...... to believe she deserved to have good things happen to her and that she deserved to be happy........

I will take care of these for you, dear Phoenix, at least for now.

I definitely do believe that you deserve to have good things happen to you and that you deserve to be happy.

thanks so much for your post, my T is trying to get me to think about the same things & I don't know how to begin.
She says that having compassion for others begins with having compassion for yourself; but this makes no sense to me. I feel that I am compassionate towards others - I even remember others telling me so - but for myself, no. For others I can make excuses; for myself I know the facts. It hurts to know what I really am, & what my past is, but how could one ever change it.

BlueMoon6 · Aug 28, 2009, 08:05 AM

in the end he said if you said the things you are saying aobut yourself to a friend woudl you stil have the freind? i said no - he said would you say that to a friend I said no - then why say it to yourself ? ( I hate it when he uses common sense to show me I am wrong

)

((((P7)))))

Oh boy do I know this sentence from my t.
How we treat ourselves? Its sad b/c why is there so much hate and anger and what the heck did we do wrong? When I have such strong SI impulses sometimes I tell myself what did I do so wrong to want to hurt myself so badly? Would I do that to someone I love? Why cant I love myself more?

You so deserve all good things and to be happy and loved

phoenix7 · Aug 28, 2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

I will take care of these for you, dear Phoenix, at least for now.

I definitely do believe that you deserve to have good things happen to you and that you deserve to be happy.

thankyou

thanks so much for your post, my T is trying to get me to think about the same things & I don't know how to begin.
She says that having compassion for others begins with having compassion for yourself; but this makes no sense to me. I feel that I am compassionate towards others - I even remember others telling me so - but for myself, no. For others I can make excuses; for myself I know the facts. It hurts to know what I really am, & what my past is, but how could one ever change it.

if i had said this what would you say to me? can you say that to yourself ? you may not believe it hte ifrst time or the first hundred times - but kep saying it till its true - if i deserve happiness than so do you - if i deserve to be loved and cared for in the right way then so do you - and thats all there is to it friend. And as to change - we change our cells every second - if we can rebuild our bodies - then oour mind should be able to be remodelled too - and it can be - i know that i am a far different person than i was a year or two ago adn hpefully next year i wil be different again . better hopefully.

what you really are is a kind person a caring person a wise person - but someone who was hurt by others and who blames herself when if there is blame it should be on them -

phoenix7 · Aug 28, 2009, 10:31 AM

quote clk6:

((((P7)))))

Oh boy do I know this sentence from my t.
How we treat ourselves? Its sad b/c why is there so much hate and anger and what the heck did we do wrong?

we listened when they told us we were bad and we still le tthe voices talk to us - we have to learn not to - we have to listen to ourselves an not the voices formthe past.

When I have such strong SI impulses sometimes I tell myself what did I do so wrong to want to hurt myself so badly? Would I do that to someone I love? Why cant I love myself more?

see answer above lol its hard ot love yourself when you ahve hated yourself for so long... but we have to learnt to do that - its hard but we can do it and we have to learn to belive that we were not at fualt that children are not to blame for what adults do to them....

You so deserve all good things and to be happy and loved (end quote)

and so do you

FooZe · Aug 29, 2009, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

It hurts to know what I really am, & what my past is, but how could one ever change it.

Well, I suppose you could start by not repeating it. Then, after in fact not having repeated it for a while, you might be in a position to assert that you weren't going to repeat it either.

I've heard a little about 12-step programs from friends, though I've never been in one myself. I understand that one of the steps involves making amends to anyone you've harmed. By any chance does that sound like a possible way of getting over your past?

--------------------------------
Dear Sir: My conscience has been bothering me so here's $100 that I stole from you. If my conscience still bothers me I'll send the rest.

BlueMoon6 · Aug 29, 2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenix7

quote clk6:

((((P7)))))

Oh boy do I know this sentence from my t.
How we treat ourselves? Its sad b/c why is there so much hate and anger and what the heck did we do wrong?

we listened when they told us we were bad and we still le tthe voices talk to us - we have to learn not to - we have to listen to ourselves an not the voices formthe past.

When I have such strong SI impulses sometimes I tell myself what did I do so wrong to want to hurt myself so badly? Would I do that to someone I love? Why cant I love myself more?

see answer above lol its hard ot love yourself when you ahve hated yourself for so long... but we have to learnt to do that - its hard but we can do it and we have to learn to belive that we were not at fualt that children are not to blame for what adults do to them....

You so deserve all good things and to be happy and loved (end quote)

and so do you

P7- Do you ever feel like you know it intellectually but when feelings come up being loving to myself is almost impossible?
Im not at fault and neither are you and we were hurt as children. And we were very sad children that shut down at some point. But I still feel like I am that hurt child and it takes such mental energy, effort and restraint not to act out and tell myself I DO love that hurt, crying little child who wants so so badly to be happy and have a peaceful life.

(((((P7)))))

FooZe · Aug 29, 2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clk6

Do you ever feel like you know it intellectually but when feelings come up being loving to myself is almost impossible?

I was wondering -- what, if anything, is the difference between "knowing something intellectually" and pretending that something is so for you when it isn't really?

I've always found it harder, myself, to stop believing something that isn't so if I "know intellectually" that it should be so.

BlueMoon6 · Aug 29, 2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fool Zero

I was wondering -- what, if anything, is the difference between "knowing something intellectually" and pretending that something is so for you when it isn't really?

I've always found it harder, myself, to stop believing something that isn't so if I "know intellectually" that it should be so.

My t talks to me about "acting as if" a lot. I guess the idea is even if you dont believe something is so that you act as if it is and then can act your way into whatever it is. The problem I have (and I have told her that) is that it feels invalidating. I feel miserable and act happy? I feel disconnected and act connected? Feels weird. But I have tried it and it can get me out of myself and my thoughts.

FoolZero- Do you mean you feel its harder if you have to try to act your way out of it? As opposed to really feeling that way?

BlueMoon6 · Aug 29, 2009, 09:08 PM

It hurts to know what I really am, & what my past is, but how could one ever change it.

SAWE- I also wonder the same thing. I think it is that we wont ever change it. Never. Childhood is over. But we can have something else, maybe something better and heal the wounds enough to be...whatever....happy?

You are a very compassionate person. You always have the most compassionate things to say to other people here. But if you had compassion for yourself you might have even more of an internal feeling of understanding for others. Thats the idea. I also have little compassion for myself in some things. But I feel so much for others, especially for my children. As if I listen to the terrible things I tell myself but Id never believe it about someone I care about or let them say those things about themselves.

FooZe · Aug 31, 2009, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clk6

My t talks to me about "acting as if" a lot. I guess the idea is even if you dont believe something is so that you act as if it is and then can act your way into whatever it is.

That's something different from what I was talking about. I think the way yours works is, you can feel two ways about something -- miserable and happy, let's say, just like the proverbial glass that's half empty and half full at the same time. If you're only in touch with one of those at a time, you may feel stuck in miserable, but if you try "pretending" to be the other you may discover that it's true for you as well.

I don't see it as invalidating. You're not claiming you aren't miserable and never were; you're just discovering that you also have the choice of being happy.

I've discovered that I often feel two or more ways about something -- I may both love someone and hate them, for instance. Not only isn't it confusing for me (any more! lol) but I'm satisfied that I get a bigger and more accurate "picture" that way of what's really going on. The few borderline people that I've discussed this with, though, have said they couldn't see doing that; it seemed impossible to them. I've noticed some of them bouncing from one extreme to the other, never comfortable with either.

Back to what I was saying earlier: it would be entirely different if instead of "pretending" to be happy (and so discovering that you really were), you were to argue that you had everything you needed so rationally you "should" be happy. That would be invalidating, and would most likely leave you stuck wondering why you had trouble feeling happy.

I guess what I started out saying was that "knowing something intellectually" tends to get in the way of knowing whether it's true in my experience or not.

phoenix7 · Aug 31, 2009, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clk6

P7- Do you ever feel like you know it intellectually but when feelings come up being loving to myself is almost impossible?
Im not at fault and neither are you and we were hurt as children. And we were very sad children that shut down at some point. But I still feel like I am that hurt child and it takes such mental energy, effort and restraint not to act out and tell myself I DO love that hurt, crying little child who wants so so badly to be happy and have a peaceful life.

(((((P7)))))

I guess i feel that child inside - sometimes we are seperate and i feel her crying where i cannot - soomtimes i recognise that i have become thje child and am stamping my feet saying I want to be better and I want to be better now!!!!! and I want my childhood changed and I want to be loved and to know that i was lovable and not just somthing you pick up when you want to and put back in its corner when you dont.....

hmmmmm sorry - think i got into child mode lol

so the short answer is yes - my logical adult mind understand s and agrees wiht T

and my emotional mind says

no wonder im confused!

phoenix7 · Aug 31, 2009, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fool Zero

That's something different from what I was talking about. I think the way yours works is, you can feel two ways about something -- miserable and happy, let's say, just like the proverbial glass that's half empty and half full at the same time. If you're only in touch with one of those at a time, you may feel stuck in miserable, but if you try "pretending" to be the other you may discover that it's true for you as well.

hmmm I try pretending every day - as i go to work i put on my professional nothng can tuoch me and i am happy happy happy face so no-one willl knoww how i really feel - it takes an enourmous amount of energy i find - my old T said just keep pretending and it will come true......not so far. I just mask it till i get home - when i feel safe at home i crash and burn - lucky im a phoenix - so i can rise formthe ashes

(a bit dusty perhaps lol)

I don't see it as invalidating. You're not claiming you aren't miserable and never were; you're just discovering that you also have the choice of being happy.

I see what you are saying - i tell myself every day - you ahve the choice to feel this way or to be happy - BE HAPPY !!!!!!! NOW!!!!!! lol

not very successful so far - but i keep trying - yes i know im very trying......

I've discovered that I often feel two or more ways about something -

or 3 or 4 in the minutes that folow lol

- I may both love someone and hate them,
(eek wasnt me - I didnt do it .......it was .......him!!!!!

lol)
for instance. Not only isn't it confusing for me (any more! lol) but I'm satisfied that I get a bigger and more accurate "picture" that way of what's really going on. The few borderline people that I've discussed this with, though, have said they couldn't see doing that; it seemed impossible to them. I've noticed some of them bouncing from one extreme to the other, never comfortable with either.

I seem to sway around a lot - no wonder i fall over lol - have quitea few cutrs and bruises to show for it too!I understand that you can love and hate someone - but i do not allow myself to do either much..... I try to say well that is who they are and not decide....... indecision in itself being a decision.

Back to what I was saying earlier: it would be entirely different if instead of "pretending" to be happy (and so discovering that you really were), you were to argue that you had everything you needed so rationally you "should" be happy. That would be invalidating, and would most likely leave you stuck wondering why you had trouble feeling happy.

ah ha! that explains why the professional face and pretending thing isnt working - thanks - it also maeks you angry and frustrated that YOU JUST DONT GET IT !!!!!!!! for crying out loud!!!! JUST BE HAPPY!!!! GRRRRR

I guess what I started out saying was that "knowing something intellectually" tends to get in the way of knowing whether it's true in my experience or not.

i had the intellectual part of my mind in control for so many years cos i had shut down my emotions - now it seems the emotional mind is out of the box and not willing to go back in NO WAY!!!!!!! - I suppose i have to work out a way for these two to work together......

dunno......... fuzzy headed lol - theres a change!