if your therapist lied to you

I believe this too.

I think it's a main issue of mine--trying to avoid conflict at all costs. It almost feels like a physical prohibition at times. I understand cognitively that it would be good to bring this up in therapy, but I'm not sure if my body will do it. If just kind of gets frozen and my heels dig in. Embarrassingly pathological. But maybe this time I'll do better.

Yes, I would not "fire him as a therapist" over this. (LOL, that's a little joke as he told me once he was not going to fire me as a client when we were having a disagreement.) I am not the sort to get mad and quit the therapy relationship over something like this (I am not an all or nothing person). The danger instead is that I will be too accommodating, forgiving, etc., and never bring this up. I will focus on all his good traits and "forget" this happened.

I don't think there is anything wrong with forgiveness either. In my imagination, I confront him and he acknowledges what happened. He doesn't backpedal. And he talks openly with me, explains things, and is not defensive. He is a model of how to handle conflict and resolve it. I learn something from this. (I so need models about how to "do" conflict.) That is my fantasy.

I don't know of the seriousness of your therapist's potential lie, but to me what would be more meaningful would be the way he reacted to being confronted with it. If he takes responsibility for it then that would be huge in my eyes. Bad choices are something we all make from time to time, but acknowledging them would speak volumes. Just my personal feelings about that...

Sunrise, I dread confrontations as well. In fact, I spent 7 years living with my H's drinking because I was too afraid to confront him about it. The day I found the courage to tell him enough is enough, either you quit or we're done, he dumped all of the alcohol out and hasn't had a drink since. I guess I never really believed that I was more important to him than the bottle. I could just kick myself sometimes...all of those years wasted because I was afraid to confront my own fears of negativity and his possible anger. Still, though, I find myself to be more of a peacemaker so it's difficult. I think, though, that sometimes there are a lot of answers to be found in the middle of the fire.

Hi Sunny- Im sorry I am so late to this thread. I read carefull through your replies and from what I gather it is all conjecture. You are certain, but not 100% that he lied etc. What about not waiting 3 weeks to bring it up? That to me seems excruciating. I can understand why you wouldnt want to bring it up in a phone call, but possibly it might give you some peace of mind. Do you ever email t?

I agree with what everyone had to say and the excellent responses you got. I am also a forgiving kind of person and believe that if someone lied (which there is a small chance he didnt) it is probably their difficulty in handling a way to say the truth. Usually I would not take it personally unless it was meant to hurt me (or I thought so).

The issue that seems not to have arisen very often with your t since you have such a close relationship. I can also avoid confrontation at all cost. But when I stick exclusively to my feelings and keep the focus on how I feel, without accusing, whatever it is comes out in an honest and direct way. Still, you now have to "do" a confrontaton and possibly put him in an awkward position. And then he would have to step up and not disappoint you again. And then what if he did? What if his respoonse to you didnt measure up? That would feel awful, hurtful and disappointing. Then possibly more confrontaton. And there goes the fantasy of a close, honest relationship- the idealized t. This is the worst case scenario. Just the worst possible outcome pushed to the extreme. With things like this, I go through what my feelings would be with the worst possible outcome.

It seems very unlikely that it would come to this with someone who is a model of how to handle conflict. I also tend to let things go that I should have said something about. But, you know, he is your t, and you have plenty of experience with him (and your) ablility to handle difficult topics together.

I became aware that my therapist lied to me once. I let it be, because it was something to do with him not with me, and I figured he wanted to leave it private without having it complicated by battling me over his silence about something I'd noticed. I mentioned it years later, and verified by his reaction that I was correct. But it was "his".

I'm sure he lies to me about this or that in the white lie sense, although he tries to be scrupulously honest when he's thinking about it.

I think I'd consider it in the wider relationship. And realize that even the best of persons do things they maybe oughtn't, and wonder at why he did it. And at this point in our relationship I would definitely bring it up, if only to indicate that I recognize that he is lying and am allowing it to pass.

Secrets are just as damaging to a relationship as lies. And the therapeutic relationship is a place where you should be able to bring anything. If therapy is to be helpful, it would help to remove that canker of doubt.

And... even if he isn't lying, your beliefs and perceptions are a legitimate topic of therapy. They likely mirror beliefs and perceptions outside therapy. Your thought processes are something that is helpful for your therapist to know.

IDK every time I read this thread I keep thinking... how often lies, even little white ones done for maybe the right reasons, adversely affect relationships. It seems the closer we allow people to get, the more impact they have. I guess the other side of this is the more connected we are with people and the more "their" stuff, feelings, and reactions affect us the harder it is "NOT" to tell little lies or mislead these individuals. When I lived a very disconnected life it was easy for me to be honest with people... mainly because I really didn't really care about how they might react or feel about what I said. They would either confront me and we would resolve the issue or they would get mad and not interact with me anymore. I could handle either outcome so the risk for being honest wasn't all that bad. I think the more connected you become with someone there is more confusion. Issues become more complex, its oven difficult to determine how you feel (because you may feel multiple things at once), the potential outcomes are also more complex and the risks of more unpleasant, and even determining if you are being honest or wading into the lying area isn't as black and white.

I guess it comes down to TRUTH being relative.

I think there is still a very slim chance that it is not a lie. But all the information I have gathered suggests it is a lie. But I am still looking into it. The best outcome is if I find information that agrees with what he said. I am still hoping....

the idea of trying to get resolution with my T by phone or email is funny to me because he is the world's worst phone communicator. And not so great at email either. He doesn't really answer phone calls--I don't think he checks his answering machine often and if he does, he doesn't call back. As for email, it's hit or miss. I would definitely never try to have a substantive discussion with him by email. Email is for rescheduling appointments and such, and the messages should be brief--a few sentences max. Just as an example, I've emailed him twice in the last week with brief, schedule related concerns (once at his request) and he hasn't responded to either message. I know some Ts do a lot of "therapy" phone calls and emails with their clients, but my T is not one of them. Besides, this is not excruciating for me. I'm processing and by the time I go back to see him after 3 weeks, I hope I will have had enough time to process. It's an important matter but I am very good at compartmentalizing, so I won't let this occurrence get in the way of my life or keep me up at night. I can't see him sooner because I have too many other things going on in my life.

Why? Does it help you to think of the worst case, BlueMoon? I'm kind of a "best foot forward" person, so I hope for the best and have a positive vision of how T will react:

"In my imagination, I confront him and he acknowledges what happened. He doesn't backpedal. And he talks openly with me, explains things, and is not defensive. He is a model of how to handle conflict and resolve it. I learn something from this."

I actually am looking forward a little bit (can't believe I wrote that!) to giving him an opportunity to show me that, to "strut his stuff", so to speak. I feel a lot of faith in him.

Sunny, I think that's a great attitude to have! I think it really helps when we have faith in our T's. And I think that's why I can continue to bring any conflicts up with my T - she handles them well, I feel like I've been heard, and I always feel better after we discuss the conflict.

That sounds like how I would react too. This "lie" that my T told me was about himself, but yet impacts me in a big way, so it's not just something about himself that is solely "his." I wish it was, then I wouldn't even bring it up to him.

Yes, we all tell white lies. I probably haven't represented it well, since I've been so vague, but this was not a white lie either--it was something of consequence.

I do think I reacted so "well" to what he said, appearing totally accepting and nonplussed (not a feather ruffled or a beat skipped), that I imagine he may have been thinking something like this, "that went over well, I've been dreading this but she bought it hook, line, and sinker. phew!" Yeah, I shouldn't be speculating on what he thought, but I do imagine he felt relief at my response. I guess it should not be my role in therapy to make his life easy.

It is very good that you have a positive vision of how t will react. And Im sure he will react in a positive way.
What I do when I am not sure what to believe, as in a lie/confrontation, is think not only of the best scenario, but the worst case scenario as well, so I am prepared. I am way too insecure to not cover all the basis in my mind. In any case, it can happen that neither happens but at least I have been able to process the situation from all angles- if things go the way I would have hoped or if they dont go that way.

sunny, what i've found with the fear of confrontation is that it's good to give yourself credit for doing it regardless of the outcome. unfortunately, we have no control over how the other person will respond--and are not responsible for that--so really all we can do is face our fear and do it as best as we know how. obviously, we can say things in ways that will hopefully make it easier for the person to respond well but ultimately how they respond is in their hands once we say our piece. i've had both positive and negative experiences in confronting people and i think i tend to expect that once i get the nerve up to say something the other person is just supposed to respond as i wish. that hasn't always happened even when i've said things as gently as i can imagine but i'm still working on speaking up as that is my part in my recovery.

I found that last piece of information I was looking for and now know with certainty that T did tell me a big lie. He fabricated something, just out of a hat. It's not even a very good lie (because it was too extreme to ring true to me, and it was something that could be checked on).

I know I've said here there was a very strong possibility it was a lie, but I was clinging to the small chance that it might not be. Now I'm feeling really let down and disappointed. I guess unknowingly I was saving that feeling for when I had more certainty.

Well, at least now I know. I can stop wasting time looking into it.

Thanks for your patience with me, everyone.

(((sunny))) I'm sorry this has happened. Will you talk to him about this?

(((((Sunrise)))))

I'm so sorry, Sunny. I'm sorry that you feel let down and disappointed.

I really think this is the gist of it. Sometimes when you care A LOT about someone you inevitably try to protect. Protect yourself from their potential judgment of you, protect them from being hurt, protect yourself from being hurt...

I don't know what exactly happened with your therapist here, Sunrise, but maybe this time your T's "stuff" affected his behavior.

I hope that you will talk it over with him and that you are able to mend things as quickly as possible.

((((((((((((((Sunny))))))))))))))

Ugh, I'm SO sorry. What an awful situation to be in.

Lots and lots of

(((Sunny)))

Just catching up here. I am so sorry. I hope you can talk about this with T because I think of you and your T as having a very open relationship that is mutually respectful. You must feel betrayed.

((((((((((((((Sunny))))))))))))))))))

((((((((((((sunny)))))))))))

so sorry your suspicions were right.

Sunny, that just sucks. Good luck talking to T about it!

Sunrise,

I am so sorry that your fears were confirmed. If my t lied about something big to me, I'd feel rather betrayed. It would put my trust at risk. There's no way i could continue therapy without bringing it up and clearing the air. There must have been some reason t felt he needed to lie about this matter. Wrong though it was, it might be important for you to find out why he felt the need to do this. Again, I'm sorry this happened to you.

What if it is he who thinks he cannot really tolerate the truth? You and he are separate.

I am having issues with, perhaps, some similarity to this with my T, and I am finding it very hard to cope with it, even when I can think clearly enough to think I see what is happening. Not good.

This is OK, I think -- IF you don't need more from them.

This discussion has captured my attention. So maybe you will forgive me spouting a little lesson in attempted clarity that I am giving myself:

"Honesty" is quite a word. Implies good vs. bad. I like "clarity" better, or even better might be "awareness" or "mindfulness" to the greatest possible extent.

Those words attempt to describe a situation, one that is desired, even essential, without confusing "describing a situation" and "calling it good or bad". Why do that? Well, it might help one become aware of the feeling that goes with the word "honesty", and might make it easier to recognize the feeling apart from everything else.

OK, now that I have left everyone mystified, you can go back to your previous discussion.

You cannot be sure.