Engulfment and Abandoment.

I had one of those a-ha moments yesterday. I have difficulty being with people that talk to much. I find myself feeling that ggggrrrr feeling. I think its the fear of being engulfed by someone elses issues, i resnt having to listen, unyet my fear of abandoment draws me to those that do talk to much..i'd not realised before that thats whats happening....its strange i've always seen myself more from the abandoment side thinking myself needy, and not seen the side of me thaT fears to much interaction...what a delemma...how does one find a balance?

Wow, I know exactly what you mean. I'm a loner and really find that I prefer to be alone, but occasionally I get this crazy idea that I can handle a friend. Inevitably I end up being taken over by them and their problems. It even seems like they are trying to impose their thoughts and ideas about things into my life. AG. I realize this is a problem I have and my t swears that regular people like this to happen with their friends, but to me its an encroachment on my peace and aloneness. Its like I simply cannot handle having to deal with another person's ***** on top of my own. When you have friends they expect you to answer the phone; if you don't they want to know why not. They want you to listen to all of their problems and daily minutia and they have EXPECTATIONS! I HATE, HATE when someone has expectations of me!

Um, not helpful as I have no clue how to have a "normal" friendship, but just wanted to share that I really relate to what you said.

This is such an interesting issue. Im wondering if it isnt really a matter of balance, but more of uncovering the fears of being engulfed or abandoned. It may be that the fears of being engulfed (as I imagine it would be for me) would be a fear of not having a worthy enough, secure enough, strong enough (the list could go) self. Or maybe an issue with boundaries. Maybe this person can/will cross my boundary and I will be be defenseless against it? How do I establish boundaries in relationhsips?

Just some thoughts....Ive had to deal with this, too and SO can relate to it.

Yes, thats how I can feel too. I think for me its a bit more than just that though, I realize now that I am so afraid of being abandoned that I allow people to "use" me hoping that they will then not be able to do without me, but in doing that I am abandoning myself, putting someone Else's needs above my own, not listening to my feelings.

Now I've caught this "abandonment dance" I think I;ll be able to tell myself whats happening and then soothe myself, and feel the feelings of rejection and know its OK now, I'm a grown up, yes this is the small child inside thats been directing this little "dance". Its been so painful doing this and not having any insight into why I am doing,, why the other person was triggering and why I choose to keep repeating the behavior.

I'm not blaming the "other" person, but they do tend to be the sort of people that have no interest in whose shoulder they cry on, as long as its a shoulder so really I wasn't securing a relationship with them anyways, I was picking people who have no genuine interest in me, geez I was never going to feel "secure" LOL! oh dear, its such a classic case of fear of rejection but its not until we put the pieces to our_own_stories can we see it and then change it.

Hey Melba, so you were choosing people who wouldn't really offer you intimacy? This was the issue that took me to my first therapist 20 years ago. I worked on my boundaries for this issue. I also worked on why I feared intimacy (which for me included self worth, fear of getting hurt, lack of social skills, just not understanding what is normal, etc.). This dance that you are describing is an attempt to try to get your opposing needs met (wanting intimacy but then not wanting intimacy).

sannah, yes because intimacy to me meant engulfment, but now i see it i don,t think i,ll be so afraid now, plus i wob't keep beating a dead horse with others who are also not able to be intimate. Theres a woman I work with where this issue is mainly at...i feel totally engulfed when i'm with her but was afraid to upset her bt putting my needs first, ie not have to listen to her gabbling on about her all the way through lunc

Yeah, isn't awareness priceless! You will certainly be able to work on this with your awareness now. You will have some experimenting to do now, huh? This is the absolute best way to work through issues I think. Everything that I have worked on was done this way - awareness then experimenting and then examining my results for my next step.........

About the woman at work. Why not try, when she comes up for air, get some sentences in there about you. Not just two words, but maybe a thought and see if she is interested enough to go back and forth with you. You may be surprised, or you may see she is so absorbed in herself that she has no interest in talking about you only about her. In that case, you know she is someone you can have this limited relationship with. And you dont even have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. She may be interesting at lunch and she probably can go briefly to other subjects.

She might be a good person to do some experimenting with.

Actually, I realized in therapy that I was unable to notice narcissistic people in my life. I could sit for hours giving of myself to someone while they droned on and on. Once I noticed it I cut the cords immediately. I never gave them the chance that Blue is suggesting here. Maybe this is tied to my friendship issue! Narcissistic people can still trigger me a bit. I generally avoid them. Maybe I have made this a big tent thing now and I put a lot of people under it??? Hmmmmmmmm........

nah tried it, she is waiting for me to finish just so she can continue back about her...with no mention of what I may have shared with her...

I emailed T about it as she knows about this situation at work and her reply is so spot on..

Dear ****

Yes. Your listening is about not feeling able to count on the good regard of others - if you don't listen, she will abandon you. She won't listen to you and keep the connection going that way, so you have to listen to keep it going. Others' warmth towards you always seems conditional. If you are not the 'mother', your mother won't want you. Then it becomes too much, and you fear being engulfed, because (from the perspective of the child trying to be the mother so she can keep her mother's love) it's too difficult, too much to bear, too incomprehensible - and of course you resent it, but also feel trapped in it. Yes, it's good to realise that you don't have to do it any more, and indeed, don't have to listen to anyone you don't want to, boring or not!

Love,
****

Very interesting note. You are in good hands there Melba! I like what I quoted up there ^. This makes a lot of sense. I never thought of it this way. I need to write this down and process this some more. Very good food for thought. Thanks Melba!

What a beautiful email. And this is what my narcissistic mother consisted of. Love me if you want to be loved. End of story. How sad for us little ones.

Blah, she stinks. I do the same thing though. I want them to want me so I end up getting nothing out of the relationship except for being able to say I have this person as a friend.