About the only time I dissociate or come close to it is in therapy. But because I know the physical and mental feelings that indicate I am headed in that direction, I am always able to stop the process. Sometimes by just stopping that train of thought and pushing it away, other times I have to stand up and move around and focus my eyes on things like book titles.

Lately I have been wondering though, if that is the right thing to do. I am always very controlled emotionally (In two years with my current T I have used exactly one kleenex.) It is starting to seem like making sure I don't dissociate is just another way of avoiding whatever it is that scares me so much.

Yesterday in my group therapy I was asked what I would do if someone actually wanted to take care of me, and trying to think about it brought me as close to splitting as I have ever been in that group. I would really like to know why I am so terrified of being taken care of, as I know that is not a normal reaction. Maybe that information can only be accessed by allowing myself to dissociate and seeing what is 'on the other side'?

The few times I have actually dissociated, the experience is that of co-consciousness. Someone else driving the bus and me in the back seat along for the ride. It definitely feels very out of control, which is why I fight it so hard.

I know I need to ask my T about this, but I am wondering also what others' experiences or thoughts might be...

[Sannah]

I don't see any benefits of dissociation. Pursuing your issues, like fear of having someone take care of you, is a good route to take but avoiding dissociation is also good. This is why therapists try to bring you back and ground you when you dissociate.

I have a few ideas about your fear of having someone take care of you (if you want to think more deeply on this) but since you didn't ask to get info on that I won't say anything unless you ask.

Thanks Sannah, what you say about dissociating makes sense. Please do say what your ideas about fear of being taken care of might be...it is definitely something I need to explore.

I agree with Sannah. Dissociation is avoidance. The trick is to stay present AND actually figure out what is going on that is making you want to zone off.

[rainbow8]

Ripley, does your T know that you come close to dissociating in therapy? Telling her what you posted here would be the first step, but you know that already.

My opinion is that any time you hold yourself back in therapy it is not helpful even though you have good reasons for doing so. I am saying that because you used 1 kleenex; I used none in 15 years of therapy with different Ts. I always have to be in control, it seems, and am too inhibited to cry. I always thought if I could "let go" in therapy, it would be healing, but that never happened. So, I identify with your not wanting to be out of control. If we could "let go" and still feel in control. At least that's the way I feel about it. Or, if we are sure our Ts will "catch us" no matter what happens. I think it's about trust and feeling safe in therapy, though I thought I felt safe and trusted my T, yet I could never completely "let go".

You trust your T, right? This is the same one who "disappeared" for a while but that's all been settled? Then I think it would be beneficial if you could see what's on the "other side." Since you are terrified of being taken care, are you afraid that your T will have to "take care of you" if you dissociate? Have you discussed your fears about being taking care of with her?

Good luck with this!

[Sannah]

Well, when you grow up in a dysfunctional family a common reflex is to build walls and keep people away. I had many years of very thick safety walls. So could your fear of being taken care of be because you don't want to get hurt and you can't trust anyone?

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Ripley, does your T know that you come close to dissociating in therapy?

yes, although I don't always let her know when it happens.

My opinion is that any time you hold yourself back in therapy it is not helpful even though you have good reasons for doing so.

There are many times when I hold back words. and emotions, like sadness. It is reflexive for me to do so, but I look forward to the day when that reflex is a bit slower to kick in. But that is, in my mind anyhow, different than fighting to stay present and in my normal state of consciousness.

You trust your T, right? This is the same one who "disappeared" for a while but that's all been settled?

It is only in the last couple of months that I can say I am beginning to trust her, and yes, same one who disappeared and came back. I always had enormous respect and confidence in her, and felt she was the right one to help me, but at the same time I was very afraid of her.

Then I think it would be beneficial if you could see what's on the "other side."

I guess I am hoping there is a way to see the other side while remaining 'me' I always feel very ashamed after I dissociate. But I can also relate to the longing to let go Once in a while I get a glimpse of how exhausting it is to always be in control.

Since you are terrified of being taken care, are you afraid that your T will have to "take care of you" if you dissociate? Have you discussed your fears about being taking care of with her?

It is more that I am afraid she will be angry with me. And this just became clear yesterday in my group therapy, which is run by different people. But I will bring this up next time I see her. I definitely tend to avoid subjects I know affect me this way, so I figure the place to start might be by talking about them as much as feels safe.??

thanks for your thoughts and good wishes

[Sannah]

You feel ashamed after dissociating?

Originally Posted by Sannah

Well, when you grow up in a dysfunctional family a common reflex is to build walls and keep people away. I had many years of very thick safety walls. So could your fear of being taken care of be because you don't want to get hurt and you can't trust anyone?

I think that is sort of it. Two things come to mind. One is the belief that I should not need any kind of taking care of, because I do not deserve it. I think the roots of that are in having been scapegoated. As in, my mother took great care of my brother and to a large extent my sister, but I was not treated the same. Her wrath if I ever made a peep about unfairness was quite devastating.
And, along the same lines, on the few occasions when she did seem to be concerned, she inevitably turned on me later and used the exact vulnerability I had exposed as a weapon against me.
When I put it in black and white like this, it seems to make perfect sense for me to react the way I do. I guess what I need to do is find the courage to allow myself to experience something different.

Originally Posted by Sannah

You feel ashamed after dissociating?

Yes, it is like the mask of "I'm not so bad off, nothing that bad really happened" slips away. And there is great shame in that for me. Speaking of or letting my emotional self be visible was generally met with rejection or punishment.
The longer I spend on this thread, the more I don't even think I should be posting some of this stuff. I feel like I will get in trouble, or be accused of making stuff up, or trying to get attention I do not deserve.

My adult self knows differently enough to have got this far, but I may have to take a break now, as my anxiety level is rising I really appreciate your responses and your interest. Even being taken care of this much is setting off alarms all over the place.

Many moons ago, I was in group therapy for incest survivors. We all had our quirks and really tried to help each other through them. Mine was dissociating. So, they got foam balls and put them in the middle of the circle. If I started zoning out, they'd throw them at me. It was hilarious really and a great way to keep me present AND keep my sense of humor at the same time. I learned a lot about my own dissociating that way to tell you the truth. I know that may sound like an insensitive way to do it, but really it wasn't. We were all there for the same reason, and "being there" both for myself and for the other women was really important to all of us. I learned to recognize it before I was too far gone and pull myself back. I learned to feel instead of avoid my feelings.

If I dissociate in therapy now (and my t is very good at seeing it coming almost before it actually happens), my t immediately asks for my attention. He asks me to focus on details in the room if necessary. Insists that I make eye contact with him. I find I dissociate pretty rarely anymore.

Dissociation is a natural response to fear and pain (not necessarily a healthy response, but it just happens.) Try not to feel ashamed of the dissociation. Your t will completely understand what is happening. You won't be judged for it. Just remember if you find yourself on your own starting to drift off to work to pull yourself back and figure out what is going on. It's that figuring out part that can be so enlightening.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by ripley

One is the belief that I should not need any kind of taking care of, because I do not deserve it.

she inevitably turned on me later and used the exact vulnerability I had exposed as a weapon against me.

Originally Posted by ripley

Yes, it is like the mask of "I'm not so bad off, nothing that bad really happened" slips away. And there is great shame in that for me. Speaking of or letting my emotional self be visible was generally met with rejection or punishment.

The longer I spend on this thread, the more I don't even think I should be posting some of this stuff. I feel like I will get in trouble, or be accused of making stuff up, or trying to get attention I do not deserve.
Even being taken care of this much is setting off alarms all over the place.

This is a lot of good insight Ripley. Just keep being aware, working through this stuff at your own pace, and keep taking good care of yourself. Working through this stuff like this is how you heal............

This thread is really interesting to me. I'm curious...what's the difference between dissociating when you're overwhelmed by pain/fear and having a dissociative disorder?

[Sannah]

Degree, dissociation is a continuum where you have this level of dissociation on one end and the seperate personalities on the others.

Originally Posted by farmergirl

Many moons ago, I was in group therapy for incest survivors. We all had our quirks and really tried to help each other through them. Mine was dissociating. So, they got foam balls and put them in the middle of the circle. If I started zoning out, they'd throw them at me. It was hilarious really and a great way to keep me present AND keep my sense of humor at the same time.

What a hilarious idea. I can see how it would be effective, and also would maybe reassure a younger self that things are ok at the same time. Playfulness is very reassuring to me anyhow.
Thanks for your other comments as well. Very helpful

Thanks to everyone for the replies I think I will keep doing as I have been, as in noticing when I am in trouble and grounding myself. But I need to speak up about it when this is going on and ask for help to explore why. I guess not doing so is where I have been avoiding things.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by ripley

But I need to speak up about it when this is going on and ask for help to explore why. I guess not doing so is where I have been avoiding things.

This sounds like a good plan.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by ripley

What a hilarious idea. I can see how it would be effective, and also would maybe reassure a younger self that things are ok at the same time. Playfulness is very reassuring to me anyhow.
Thanks for your other comments as well. Very helpful

wow FG and Ripley, we are so different. "Playfulness" is very scary to me I guess; one foam ball and I'd be out of there in a heartbeat

the reason that group is not for me
Well, I admire you both for being able to do it.