hear my reasoning.

if all T's care about all their clients, then that basically says "it's in the job description"

it would be different if a T had mixed reviews -- you know, some people said "well that was a good T who did her job well, but that T did not care about me"... but what it comes down to is eventually we all believe our T cares about us

i find this suspect and highly doubt it

i think T's care about everyone because its their job, similar to how a teacher cares about their students or how a boss cares about his employees...job description.

at the end of the day, it's not really "caring" but the job
at the end of the day, its a delusion we fall into, to be able to progress in therapy.

at the end of the day, T no more cares about me (or anyone) than I care about the person I just made a turkey sandwich for at work. he pays me and he gets the sandwich. we pay T and get something that we think we need.

oh boy--i think i have seen the light and it sucks

[Perna]

Do you go to your T to have them care about you or to learn how to feel better?

Why do you care about your T but your T is not allowed to care about you?

Could you listen to someone talk about their hopes, dreams, deepest secrets for years at a time and not care about them?

[Melbadaze]

I think until we really learn to care about others than we see the world through our vision and our past. I made a post here recently about how I was reading an book or article, cant remembee now, and suddenly I felt this strange feeling in me, I was feeling something for the person as I read their words and understood thats how T feels about me as she listens to my words, it was the unspoken coomunication I had picked up and internalised, so yed my T cares, not to say all T's have done their own work, because like any profession theres good ones and not so good, but if someone really cares you will eventually know it.

[WePow]

Solar... I think I understand where you are comming from and feeling.
In many ways, I see this is true with my own T. I know he cares about me in the context of his job description. But I also feel that as our relationship has grown - as T has grown to know me as a person and has allowed me to see some of who he is - that T does care more about me as a person and not just a client.

It is odd because I can watch T's interactions with other clients before or after my session with him. There is a haunting emotional distance he has with some clients. Usually I see that when he says "Hello, I'm xxx. Come on into my office." It is warm but it is NOT what he does with clients I have seen many times. He has different levels of welcoming people. One guy he said "Hey Friend! Great to see you! Come on back!" His whole face was lit up! I thought "I wish he lit up like that to see me." But it showed me he was not just a T who processed everyone through like clockwork.

Anyway, that is my take on this.

[pegasus]

((((((( Solarwind )))))))

Well, yes it is in the job description as a therapist has to truly care about every single client/patient. And I would like to say it is not just a job, to a therapist it is their life!

[ECHOES]

Sometimes it is hard to accept the caring and we might look for ways to not accept it.
To make it something more familiar to us, because we know how to proceed when something is familiar.

T's care about our emotional well being. They show their caring in many ways; my therapist's caring shows in her being non-judgemental, sitting quietly and patiently with me, laughing with me, providing a kind of 'holding', an intimacy in the therapy relationship, making room for me and even coming in early when I needed an extra session, taking my phone calls in stride and making them useful parts of my therapy, encouraging me to share anything... lots of ways--some I have had to learn to recognize and appreciate.

[chaotic13]

I think for me the concept that someone cared and what it really means to care for someone was very skewed. IDK it was like if someone cared about me, it made me feel like I owed them something or that at some point they would start clinging to me, restricting my movement or activities, expecting me to do things for them, just in general I would end up tangled up in their web in some way.Honestly, this feeling WAS true for many of my relationships. Even now my H will try to pull me back into old thinking patterns and get me to feel guilty by telling me things like..."If you *really* cared for me you would...." - I am sooo done with the show me you care strings!

Because I had this perception of what caring meant...I didn't want people to care for me and I didn't want to impose that on others so I kept my own involvements with people very superficial. Whenever I would feel the slightest tug of caring or being cared for I immediately separated myself from it.

As I've gotten more aware of myself and who I am inside..IDK this power dyanmic has become less of an issue. I think my perception of caring was very egoic at the core. I can now see that there is a difference between ego-love/ego-care and real love and caring. I now get that others can care for me without getting caught up in my drama or without trying to "control" me or get something from me in return. More importantly I realize thatI can offer that conditionless care to others as well.

Honestly, I think what helped me was when Sunrise recommended the Patricia Evan's Verbal Abuse book. I think it was that book that presented information on Power-based relationships vs. collaborative relationship. Once I understood that collaborative relationships could actually exist...then I think my organism just went about creating some. IDK... It was hard to break my pattern of doubt and to accept that my T could care about me and really be interested in what is happening with me even if it was a professional relationship. But I did and I've internalized that now.

[darkrunner]

I don't think T's could do what they do without caring.

Originally Posted by Solarwind

at the end of the day, T no more cares about me (or anyone) than I care about the person I just made a turkey sandwich for at work. he pays me and he gets the sandwich. we pay T and get something that we think we need.

This is a good analogy, I think. When you make a turkey sandwich for someone - a stranger - you do 'care' about them in a way - just not in a personal way.

Maybe that's how T's think of us when we have our first few appointments.
They don't know us yet, but they are caring for us by beginning the process to help us.

Let's say, you made a turkey sandwich for the same man every week for months and months. And you begin to learn about him and his hardships. And you begin to know his personality, his sense of humor, his dreams and goals as well as his problems and shortcomings.
You would still have a job to do - making him a turkey sandwich. But you may do it better as you get to know him better. And you would definitely care more about him on a personal level, and care more about making his sandwich good. Even if you never got to be friends with him outside of work, you could care very deeply about him and about what happens to him.

I think that is how it is with T's.
They can care on a personal level, and be a T, at the same time.

[zooropa]

it would be different if a T had mixed reviews -- you know, some people said "well that was a good T who did her job well, but that T did not care about me"... but what it comes down to is eventually we all believe our T cares about us

here's an example of when that is not true: I have a close friend who used to see the same T that I do. She (my friend) doesn't believe our T ever cared about her, and thinks she is a rotten, horrible T.
I, on the other hand, think my T is a pretty awesome one and that she does care about me. Of course I realize that it's in my best interest to believe my T cares about me, and I'm okay with that.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Solarwind

if all T's care about all their clients

I don't think all Ts care about all their clients. I have heard some descriptions on this site about people's Ts that did not sound caring at all--they sounded really damaging. So I do not agree with your contention that all Ts care about all clients. What has made you think that is true? Are you worried that your T doesn't care about you? If so, why? Has she been mean to you? Let you down?

I can only speak about my own relationships with therapists. I have ZERO doubt that my T cares for me tremendously. Whether all therapists care about their clients doesn't factor into this knowledge I have of my own T's caring. Really, what is most important is that my T cares about me and I know he does. I don't worry about what all Ts do.

My daughter and I went to see a family therapist together for about 9 months. He was a nice guy, kind of shy, and we liked him. I would not say we were tremendously close (it is harder to get close to the T when you are not in individual therapy), but the three of us had a relationship. My daughter and I decided we had gotten all we could have out of therapy with him, so we decided the next session would be our last, and we would tell him good-bye. At the session, after about 10 minutes in, I told him that today would be our last session. I remember he just stopped, leaned back in his chair, and looked at the ceiling. Finally he came back "down" and said, "breaking up is hard to do." This was his way of saying this was hard for him, and he would not have said that unless he cared. We spent the rest of the time talking about what we had gained from therapy, and him also--what he had learned from us. So this was a relationship not filled with a lot of overt demonstrations of caring. But in the end, I know he did care. But yet we didn't experience this caring intensely during the therapy, and it wasn't important for us that we didn't. But we never thought he didn't care either.

Anyway, SW, I am not sure why you are thinking of this question now. Is it a rather academic exploration of the T relationship for you to think of how how the therapist profession is defined and if caring is part of their job description or genuine (or both)? Or are you worried about whether your own T cares about you? If the latter, I urge you to look directly at that question rather than what all Ts are like. And explore it with your T.

Originally Posted by Solarwind

oh boy--i think i have seen the light and it sucks

I can't judge if your T cares about you or not, Solarwind, but I don't think you have seen the light! I think a lot of Ts do care. I think you are trying to move from this idea (which I don't agree with) that all Ts care, to the opposite, that all Ts don't really care (because its just part of their job description).

[skeksi]

I don't think all teachers, bosses, or Ts care. I think the good ones do, though. And just like with any other person, I think you have to evaluate what each one says and decide if you believe it, based on your experience with that person. But I think they can all care very deeply about the people they work with, and though it's not the same as a physically intimate relationship, it is an emotionally intimate one and that is very powerful, maybe even more so.

I can say that I care about all of my clients... I care about people... That's not in my job description... But, I can say I do not LIKE all of my clients... But I still care about them and their progress through treatment

[WePow]

Stormy, thanks as always for your honesty! I suppose it may be outside of the scope of therapy to "hope" a T "likes" to be around someone... but I do know I would not want to be a client that the T thought "OMG! It is HER AGAIN!" ... you know? I have customers I think that way about and I wish I didn't.. but the honest truth is some personalities work together and some don't. For stuff like who is cooking my food, I can deal with someone not knowing me or liking me. But I honestly want my T to like who I am. I think if T did not like me (the way I actually do like many of my regular customers at work) ... well I think I would pick up on that on a subconscious level. I think that emotion would harm my ability to heal. I would much rather suffer through a termination and referal out than to keep feeling something is wrong but not knowing what it was.

Do you ever have a client you honestly just do not like and you refer them out in hope that they will be a better match with someone else? You don't got to answer - I am just very curious about this. Thanks!!

[deliquesce]

my old T was a competent therapist. we did not like each other very much. he cared about my progress from a professional standpoint, just as much as my surgeon cared about removing whatever it was that was making me "unwell". i was just another client to my old-T, though i do know he was genuinely fond of some of his other clients.

my pdoc loves me. we will be tied together forever, even after i stop being his client.
and my current T cares about and likes me. not to the point of pdoc, but definitely more than old-T.

i have had therapists who cared deeply about me that i did not like very much. and therapists i liked very much who were pretty open with their contempt towards me.

so, yes. i think it's a crock of **** that all Ts care about us as individuals. but that isnt something i would hope for anyway. i do expect them to care professionally, though. that's just them taking pride in their work.

Originally Posted by WePow

Do you ever have a client you honestly just do not like and you refer them out in hope that they will be a better match with someone else? You don't got to answer - I am just very curious about this. Thanks!!

Yes. I honestly have clients that I'm like "Ugh". But, that's more about ME. It's about my feelings of being inadequate with them. With these cases, I take them to my supervisor, and we explore what the problem is. Again, usually it's me. I'm triggered by not feeling competent, or that they have a personality trait that provokes counter-transference. I attempt to work through it. There are those that that is not a possibly, and yes, I talked to the client about finding another provider. I do not want to be a barrier to my client's treatment. I don't want to spend a year+ spinning my wheels with them. As they don't want that either.

I think there is a huge advantage to having chemistry with a client. Liking each other is a huge catalyst for change. Having a close relationship in which we respect each other and value each other's stances, creates a greater opportunity for good work to be done.

It's part of my job to recognize when there has been a very bad match with therapist/client.

[WePow]

StormyAngels, thank you again for the very thoughtful response. You sound like you do a great job with these dynamics. That is very awesome to hear. And I think that any good therapist should be this way... to consider what is in the best interests of a client for long term. Good for you!

As a side note - I did ask my T if he liked me as a human and he replied he does :-) So with that internal question answered, it frees my energy to focus even more on the forward motion of healing. :-)

Hi Solarwind,

I just wanted to say that I agree with some of the other posters, I don't think that Ts have the same relationships with all of their clients...of course, it is a good trait that they care (it is necessary for a good T to do so), but I do think they might be more "invested" in some clients than others.

I know that my T and I have talked about how we do see "things" similarly and how we have very similar senses of humor (therefore, we often find each other quite funny). When I walk back out in to the waiting room post-session, and I am laughing 95% of the time (except for the intense, icky session), and his next client is that stern gentlemen sitting on the couch as it so often is, and he is looking at me like, "HE IS NOT THAT FUNNY..." I know my T and I have quite a different relationship than couch gentleman.

With that being said, the day T told me that he "cares about what happens to me" I had an extremely bad reaction because it sounded like he read it from a therapy book. I think I would take that shown to me in actions over words any day.

I know T cares about me, but sometimes I hate that he does, like if he really sees the real me, he wouldn't care at all. He used to tell me all the time "I care about you and I like you" and I would say "don't say that" and he would act dumb and say "don't say what?", but again part of me is glad he cares, I couldn't see him if he didn't, but again I know he does, I have been seeing him for over ten years,,,, but still so afraid.... yeah, I think they gotta have some feeling for the client or the therapy is doomed, IMHO!!!

[BlueMoon6]

Solar- This is a very interesting thread. As I read along I agreed strongly with the reponses you got, especially the point that we all come from a certain place when it comes to caring and we see "caring" through the lens of what we have come to believe throughout our lives. I dont beleive it is either or- either they care or they just dont.

Therapists see a lot of people and must take care of themsleves in terms of closeness to their clients. And I think different people/therapists do that in their own way. The boundaries of one therapist might strike us not caring and the boundaries of another therapist might be okay with us. Some may make their caring more obvious, while it may be less obvious with others. And we view their responses to us through those lenses of ours.

I dont think I have had a therapist not care about me, but I can say, during the times I was most needy and felt like I needed more caring, the less I felt like my therapist was giving that to me and it was easy for me to say, "she just doesnt care." It was coming from me. The words and actions of my therapist could trigger different kinds of feelings in me and I might feel like I wanted her caring to be more "obvious" or I wanted/needed her to be more demonstrative. Say this or that in particular to show she cared or even offer a hug.

I guess what I am saying is that this is a GREAT issue to bring up in therapy. How can you believe that a therapist or anyone cares about you? How can you trust people? I dont think its an issue for only you. It is an issue for a lot of us. How do you really believe that you are worth caring about? It is SO MUCH easier to be angry and believe, "Eh, its only her job...no one really cares about me" then to dig deeply into feelings of not being worth caring about or worth being anything more than someone's paycheck or used by someone for their own purposes. What if they care and then I care and then I get hurt? How can I allow myself to be that vulnerable when I have been SO hurt in my life?

[mightaswelllive]

Try becoming one these professions that you mentioned or another helping professional (therapist, teacher, teen advocate, non-profit programmer, etc) and see if you can NOT care about the people you are helping or educating or advocating for. I spend countless hours working with teens on the job and when I come home I still think and worry about them. Of course they care. Sure it's in the job description.. but if the professional didn't want to care for people and about people, they would not have chosen to work in the helping profession.

I'm not a big fan of absolute words like always, all, everyone, nobody, never, etc. So, of course not "all" therapists care about their patients to the same degree. That would be inhuman. Absolutes don't work.

I do really take exception to your idea though, that at the end of the day, helping professionals like teachers and t's only care about their students and clients because it is their job. I'm a teacher, and I know I care about my students (and yes, to varying degrees) sincerely and beyond the scope of my day. And I'm NOT delusional about the relationship and caring between my t and I. That is very real; not some put on for our one hour a week sessions.

It sounds like you are struggling with your own confidence about your relationship and trust in/with your own t. I hope you get it figured out.

[tears_of_a_clown]

Originally Posted by BlueMoon6

I dont think I have had a therapist not care about me, but I can say, during the times I was most needy and felt like I needed more caring, the less I felt like my therapist was giving that to me and it was easy for me to say, "she just doesnt care." It was coming from me. The words and actions of my therapist could trigger different kinds of feelings in me and I might feel like I wanted her caring to be more "obvious" or I wanted/needed her to be more demonstrative. Say this or that in particular to show she cared or even offer a hug.

I guess what I am saying is that this is a GREAT issue to bring up in therapy. How can you believe that a therapist or anyone cares about you? How can you trust people? I dont think its an issue for only you. It is an issue for a lot of us. How do you really believe that you are worth caring about? It is SO MUCH easier to be angry and believe, "Eh, its only her job...no one really cares about me" then to dig deeply into feelings of not being worth caring about or worth being anything more than someone's paycheck or used by someone for their own purposes. What if they care and then I care and then I get hurt? How can I allow myself to be that vulnerable when I have been SO hurt in my life?

Loved this!

[elliemay]

Solar,

I get what you are saying. As if indicated before, the whole set up of therapy is rather artificial at first. However, given the right set of circumstances an alchemy can occur. The "me" in therapy somehow transforms into "we".

Don't ask me how or why. Perhaps it is a willingness of both parties to fully engage, perhaps it is just because the two are simply together. Perhaps it's a measure of consistency of expression. I don't know.

But a caring can develop and be quite palpable.

[WePow]

Solar, I just wanted to take the time to thank you VERY VERY VERY much for starting this thread!! Because you had the courage to post this, I ended up with courage to ask my T about the truth of caring. And his direct answer has changed my life (( very much for the better )). I will not go into details, but I wanted to let you know that you have DIRECTLY helped me have a much better outlook on my own life.

I hope that the answers others are giving you are helping you out on your own journey. You deserve to know that you are respected as a person in addition to being a client. And I hope that if it is not the case, that you will find a T who can give you that human to human bond that goes safely and honorabley beyond "just a job" because you DESERVE that type of connection.

[tears_of_a_clown]

Originally Posted by Solarwind

i think T's care about everyone because its their job, similar to how a teacher cares about their students or how a boss cares about his employees...job description.

at the end of the day, it's not really "caring" but the job
at the end of the day, its a delusion we fall into, to be able to progress in therapy.

I just thought I'd share another thought. After several years of work in therapy, I said something in a session that was a moment of real progress for me, and my therapist was moved to tears. I doubt that that was in any psychotherapist training manual. Of course, I made a joke about it (see below), but it was a clear sign to me that there was a true human connection that extends far beyond "T is paid to care."

After two years in psychotherapy, my doctor finally spoke, and it brought me to tears......

"No hablo ingles"