[Symbiosis]

May trigger-





T has taken a turn for the worse since I was last here. I don't feel like my T is all that connected to me (in the therapeutic sense of course). I had a really bad thing happen to me recently and as I was sniffling and in pain, staring off into space like I sometimes do, I looked back at T and he was completely staring at my breasts!

I never wear anything showing cleavage---ever. It's because it is so overkill for me because I'm uh, kind of well-endowed and just have a body type that tends to accentuate this. I don't wear any tight shirts either unless I'm out on the town and looking for that kind of attention. Even then, anything too obvious looks ridiculous so I dress classy. But I'm used to the periodic gazes even in places where it is not so appropriate, like work. Occasionally I'm flattered. Most often I'm annoyed. Sometimes I don't care.

With T, I care! It was the 3rd time I caught him doing this, but I chalked the first two up to me misreading his gaze. This time there was no mistaking it. I happened to be wearing a shirt that is as low as I go...a scoop neck properly falling just above where cleavage would begin. Not a millimeter of it showing. But maybe in my slumping misery it showed a bit. Again, it couldn't have been anything all that crazy. I'm basically a walking Banana Republic ad to give you guys an image.

I can't bring it up to him. The last time I was critical (the confidentiality issue) it turned into a war.

I guess I just want to vent and get validation. For some reason, I feel like the bad person. I think it plays into another factor that bothers me: he was formerly in a field that has major hierarchy snobbery and I'm currently at the bottom of that field, the lowest caste, not to mention working for his wife, the Big Boss, the czar. Since I've been getting this vibe that he just doesn't like me or care about me, I guess I'm taking his looks as further proof that to him, I equal something equivalent to a servant. Something that can be oogled if he wishes.

I scoured the forum for someone else who experienced these kinds of moments and there was nothing.

Anyone?

Am I making the whole thing too big of a deal? Most of the time this kind of thing happens to me, I shrug it off easily enough. Sometimes it can even be amusing. Not so much with T.

[Fartraveler]

Have you worked with other T's before? How long have you been working with this T for a long time? Would you consider trying another T to see if it is a better fit?

(I have to say that it really would bother me if my boss were my T's spouse. If you want to vent about a work issue, how can you do that freely? How could you speak freely about difficulties or whatever regarding your work? Confidentiality is a big issue of course, but for me it would be way more than that.)

Therapy is very difficult, but this particular T seems to be causing you lots of unnecessary distress.

-Far

[Symbiosis]

No, I haven't worked with others. 6 months with this T. Yeah, confidentiality was a big, messy issue for months.

I'm seriously considering switching Ts.

[sailboat]

I just wanted to ask you why you think you have to justify his behavior like this and then I read this

Originally Posted by Symbiosis

For some reason, I feel like the bad person.

so I don't need to make you notice it. I do want to say that even if you had shown cleavage, staring at women's breast is just not something you do, it's called manners.

I'm a woman yet I have the opposite problem when it comes to breast size so I don't really know how it must be to be stared at like this. I do however know the 'you're an object' looks so I kinda do know what it's like!?
Anyway, on one hand, your T is just a man you know, he's human and a man and I'm pretty sure he wasn't aware that you caught him. However, he's your T and that makes it inappropriate. I don't know about you, but to me, therapy should be an asexual place somehow. So I think it was inappropriate of him.
I don't know the story of you and your T but it sounds like you do have some differences.

Are you sure he doesn't like you or are you projecting things or reading things into this that aren't true? I know I thought and sometimes still think my T doesn't like me just because I feel like people who really know me, just can't like me and because of other issues but this is about you, not me.
Your T shouldn't care at all if his wife is your boss or where you stand in this hierarchy. And it should definitely not influence your progress in therapy.

Does he get defensive if you criticize him or why can't you tell him?
sorry if this post is a bit all over the place, I'm awfully tired.

[Omers]

I would have slapped him across the face... but then, well, that's me. I had no cleavage until about a year ago and then * poof * here we are! @ 33 years old no less! anyway... now that there is something to stare at I am SO defensive about it.

Personally I would be looking for a new T. IMO. Hell, even if he was staring at the floor instead I would consider it. I would find him staring off anywhere really annoying. Dunno. Guess I would feel like he wasn't paying attention.

[Symbiosis]

The ironic thing about it is that he is Mr. Chilly Clinical. He is distant. He discourages emails/phone calls and I've sent 2 emails in six months, no phone calls, so I don't know what he's so worried about. He NEVER lets me know what he thinks. He's not too reassuring either, which was the biggest problem when we were going over my confidentiality concerns.

But maybe I have the wrong idea about therapy. I think it wouldn't be harmful to say stuff like, "Hang in there," and "You're doing fine," or even, "How do you think T is going?"

Yeah, there are lots of problems. This staring business is just the latest.

[Symbiosis]

Let me just add, I can't talk to him because conversations where I talk about him go like this:

Me: I suspect you broke my confidentiality.
T: Have you felt mistrustful of people in the past?

or, imagining bringing up something way, way too uncomfortable, the looks

Me: There have been a few times I think you were staring at my breasts. One of the times was when I was pretty upset and talking about a current crisis. I feel disrespected.
T: Have there been other times in your life you have felt disrespected?

Then I get angry and push for answers. Then he gets angry. Sigh.

[Omers]

Ooooh I would get angry too. My T can be an ice queen but even she is supportive. She is seriously OCD about confidentiality but if I had said what you said I would expect to hear "what happened that makes you believe I broke our confidentiality agreement?" and from there we would 1. clarify what happened and what the context was 2. discuss my feelings about it and 3. discuss how things needed to be different in the future so that we could re-build trust.
Other things I hear from T:
"I know that must be so hard for you"
"I know that is difficult for you to look at"
"how does that make you feel" (She uses a very specific tone of voice when she says this that keeps me from strangling her)
"Hang in there, call if you need" (I can call her but she does not typically return phone calls unless you are headed to the ER or are inpatient)
"I know this was a hard session for you. What are you going to be doing for self care?"
Dunno... just trying to give you an idea. A lot of people on here have really warm fuzzy T's so it might be hard to compare just because of the personality/theory differences. My guess is your T is psychoanalytic... But that would only explain the "cold" not the rude.

[Fartraveler]

Try to find someone new. I wouldn't normally say that, but in this case:
1. you don't have a history of jumping from one therapist to the next
2. you still seem very uncomfortable with him even after six months of therapy
3. there seem to be serious external things hampering the therapy. (Like you working for his wife.)

Therapy's so hard. It's hard enough when there's only internal issues hampering it. But adding in all those external complications must make it so much more of a struggle.

Also, therapists are generally supposed to ask "How is therapy going?" I don't know what kind of therapy you are doing, but my understanding is that therapists generally do go over process sorts of things. That's actually supposed to be an important part of therapy.

I don't know. If it were me, I'd be looking for another T.

-Far

[WePow]

UUUGGGG! Bless your heart!! I would never - EVER- go back!!!!
You deserve so much more from your therapy time/money !!!!

i agree with far. because you have several other issues with him i'd look for a new T. it doesn't sound like you and he have that good a fit anyway, the fact that he is married to your big boss, and that he just doesn't sound very warm or therapeutic would definitely do it for me. so sorry you have had this happen.

[Elana05]

Originally Posted by Symbiosis

I'm seriously considering switching Ts.

Symbiosis,

I have to admit I am coming totally from my own perspective here. But I would consider switching. You have to be able to relax with your T. I could understand trying to talk this one out if it was a communication problem but this is different and plus this is the 3rd time. Did you ever consider seeing a woman therapist? There are some incredible male therapists, I know. But I know I myself feel more comfortable with women.

[geez]

Sorry to hear you are going through this. I agree with what others have said and I would find a new T. Therapy is hard enough without throwing ogling into the mix.

[Oceanwave]

If I were you I'd discuss it with him very seriously, and just stick with it, not let him off the hook. That's his part. And then there is this, your part: "I guess I'm taking his looks as further proof that to him, I equal something equivalent to a servant. Something that can be oogled if he wishes". Ahem. Can a "servant" be ogled at will? and how come you are feeling like one? I would use this opportunity to try to work through what's behind these feelings.

[Melbadaze]

I tihnk it would be pointless to make a disision on what you posted here...I wonder if its not more a case of needing to feel your body is what he would rather spend time looking at rather then working with you? Your discription of what you wear tends to exagerate the sitation..why not just say he stares at my breast? Î felt as I read your post moe hat you are having a fantasy relationship with him'''just what I reading your words brought up in me.

[Symbiosis]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the opinions.

My best friend who is a T has pretty much told me from the beginning to find someone else. She thought that everything has sounded kind of wrong.

And Melba, I don't know...I tend to be wordy. Not that I prescribe to this way of thinking, but some people might wonder if he's staring at my chest is it because I dress provocatively. I just wanted to emphasize I don't, but disclose that it isn't like this kind of thing never happens with anyone else. It does. And to the point that I'm pretty aware of it, i.e. not on the sly.

I'm not after a romantic relationship (he's like 60 yrs. old).

I would like to feel like my T gives a $@#$ though. Bad, bad things are happening right now and there hasn't been any, "Call me if you need to," or even, "Are you going to be okay," or "Do you think you might need another session this week?" The last one being something he'll allow.

To add on, he knew something bad at work was coming the next day, too, in the midst of my other problem. Obviously, it isn't his place to tell me about work stuff just because of the dual relationship. However, it was BIG news and he still wasn't showing concern for me! Knowing what was coming the very next day!

I'm curious about the psychoanalytic thing---I didn't think people still practice that. Does that orientation have a distant vibe? Does it mean that the client always leads? Does it prohibit support? Because there has been very few supportive statements from T.

[Elana05]

Originally Posted by Symbiosis

I'm curious about the psychoanalytic thing---I didn't think people still practice that. Does that orientation have a distant vibe? Does it mean that the client always leads? Does it prohibit support? Because there has been very few supportive statements from T.

Hi Symbiosis,

As far as I know, I think more people are practicing the more modern version of analysis these days termed psychodynamic psychotherapy. But, yes, there are those who still practice the more formal type of analysis. I have heard that this "more formal" type is intensive and you go usually 4 times a week. To be honest, I don't know the ways that the more formal type of analysis differs from the more modern version of "talk therapy," so I don't know how to answer your support question - except to say that I myself see a therapist with the hope and intention of obtaining support. So I don't think it is unusual to make that request. Here is a good description of psychodynamic psychotherapy:
http://www.cbtvspsychodynamic.com/Psychodynamic.html

[chaotic13]

My first 6 months in T were very challenging. I spent A LOT of time and energy trying to figure out should I stay or should I find someone else. In the end I stuck it out and benefited greatly from working through the issues I had with my T.

HOWEVER, what your describing, doesn't sound like a good situation and the types of responses he is giving you are demeaning NOT helpful. I'd take your best friends advice and find a better T.

[with or without you]

Originally Posted by Elana05

Hi Symbiosis,

As far as I know, I think more people are practicing the more modern version of analysis these days termed psychodynamic psychotherapy. But, yes, there are those who still practice the more formal type of analysis. I have heard that this "more formal" type is intensive and you go usually 4 times a week. To be honest, I don't know the ways that the more formal type of analysis differs from the more modern version of "talk therapy," so I don't know how to answer your support question - except to say that I myself see a therapist with the hope and intention of obtaining support. So I don't think it is unusual to make that request. Here is a good description of psychodynamic psychotherapy:
http://www.cbtvspsychodynamic.com/Psychodynamic.html

That's a great link...reinforces why I love the psychodynamic orientation, as excruciating as it may be at times for myself as a patient. thanks

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Symbiosis

Then I get angry and push for answers.

Then he gets angry.

T shouldn't get angry.............

[SpiritRunner]

Originally Posted by Sannah

T shouldn't get angry.............

No, they shouldn't, or allow it to be seen, or direct it toward you.....to me, I would find that an even bigger red flag than staring at your breasts (not that I mean to diminish the discomfort/inappropriateness of that). I'd be feeling like getting a different T, were these happening to me, I think....