[Protoform]

As those of you have "fallen in love" with the therapist, transference is one of the most intense pains you have probably ever experienced in your life. It's one of those things that unless you feel it you probably wouldn't be able to imagine how painful it really is.

That said, is there any hope that one day the psychological associations and the powers that be create a set of behavioral guidelines that will mandate therapists to take appropriate steps in order to prevent vulnerable patients from falling into this trap?

Their attitude right now, as I understand it, is that it's not the therapist's fault that the patient fell in love with him/her and that since falling in love is not supposed to be a painful emotion, then no harm has been done to the patient. But those of us who have been in this position know how painful it really is.

Nowhere in the documents that I signed before I received therapy was I told that I was going to endure this type of pain.

Just wondering, if I file a lawsuit do I stand to gain anything other than getting laughed out of court?

Originally Posted by Protoform

As those of you have "fallen in love" with the therapist, transference is one of the most intense pains you have probably ever experienced in your life. It's one of those things that unless you feel it you probably wouldn't be able to imagine how painful it really is.

That said, is there any hope that one day the psychological associations and the powers that be create a set of behavioral guidelines that will mandate therapists to take appropriate steps in order to prevent vulnerable patients from falling into this trap?

Their attitude right now, as I understand it, is that it's not the therapist's fault that the patient fell in love with him/her and that since falling in love is not supposed to be a painful emotion, then no harm has been done to the patient. But those of us who have been in this position know how painful it really is.

Nowhere in the documents that I signed before I received therapy was I told that I was going to endure this type of pain.

Just wondering, if I file a lawsuit do I stand to gain anything other than getting laughed out of court?

I can't answer your question about a lawsuit, but I can sure identify with your pain. I am not sure that I can say I 'fell in love' with my therapist, but I sure did have emotions that I was totally not prepared to have!Luckily, she handled it very well, and I am past that. BUT, I am sure that those feelings can return at any time. It IS excruciating to feel that kind of pain.

I do think that we should be informed early on in therapy that this may occur. We should be advised about what to do IF we see it coming. They see it as 'no harm done'?? That is a bunch of crap! It is very harmful to us. It made me think I was beginning to have lesbian tendencies. I was questioning my sexuality. No harm? Oh yeah, it does A LOT of harm! I wonder if any of them have gone through it!

I am sorry for your pain, but I am not sure if you can file a lawsuit. Will be interesting to see what others have to say about this.

[dizgirl2011]

Originally Posted by Protoform

As those of you have "fallen in love" with the therapist, transference is one of the most intense pains you have probably ever experienced in your life. It's one of those things that unless you feel it you probably wouldn't be able to imagine how painful it really is.

That said, is there any hope that one day the psychological associations and the powers that be create a set of behavioral guidelines that will mandate therapists to take appropriate steps in order to prevent vulnerable patients from falling into this trap?

Their attitude right now, as I understand it, is that it's not the therapist's fault that the patient fell in love with him/her and that since falling in love is not supposed to be a painful emotion, then no harm has been done to the patient. But those of us who have been in this position know how painful it really is.

Nowhere in the documents that I signed before I received therapy was I told that I was going to endure this type of pain.

Just wondering, if I file a lawsuit do I stand to gain anything other than getting laughed out of court?

Hi,

You seem to be really struggling, as is evident from your other questions.

Transference isn't just about "falling in love" with your therapist, transference can apply to even negative feelings that you project onto your therapist that perhaps you have felt for someone else in your life...so its not just about the love or attachment.

I know how painful it is to feel attached to a therapist or carer of some sort and to loose them, I have went through it a few times and so have others on here...unfortunately it seems to happen most of us who have been in therapy for a long period of time.

Some people dont get attached to therapists, some people do - theres no way to predict who will or wont find it a painful feeling...some people thrive when they realise what is happening between them and the therapist is transference and use it to help heal their issues.

In a way it's like someone saying that everyone we meet in life we should have a contract with so that if we feel hurt by any of their actions...or lack of action that we can file a lawsuit against them....it doesn't sound very reasonable does it?

The fact is the transference comes from you, it's not that the therapist is putting you under a spell and making you "fall in love" with them...its just how your reacting to them. That doesnt mean that therapists cant help you talk through these feelings and try and make sense of them but T dont try to hurt their clients with it.

I do understand where you are coming from though..sometimes I feel mad at the system of therapy... of how we are lead to believe someone truely cares because of the way they are trained to react to us..and we get sucked into feeling attached when really its unfair as we usually have to give that person up. I guess thats the strangle reality of therapy.

I am sorry your hurting though but a lawsuit like this would not stand up in court, sorry.

[maggyjo]

I am really sorry for your pain.

I have seen many therapist, some good some not so good. But I don't believe any of them ever meant to intentionally cause me pain. Most people who go into this line of work really want to help people. Some are just better at it than others.

The last therapist I was with a little over a year. I still feel the sting of the pain when I think about her. But I think in her own way she really did want to help me.

Again I am sorry you are having such a hard time, Are you thinking you may try again with another therapist?

Maggy Jo

[Protoform]

Originally Posted by dizgirl2011

Some people dont get attached to therapists, some people do - theres no way to predict who will or wont find it a painful feeling...some people thrive when they realise what is happening between them and the therapist is transference and use it to help heal their issues.

I think that's right. But in that case, shouldn't therapists be cautious lest they lead a vulnerable patient into a painful trap?

The fact is the transference comes from you, it's not that the therapist is putting you under a spell and making you "fall in love" with them...its just how your reacting to them. That doesnt mean that therapists cant help you talk through these feelings and try and make sense of them but T dont try to hurt their clients with it.

I don't doubt that T's are not out to hurt their clients. But they are very "careless" in assuming that all their clients are going to respond positively to the transference.

You know, if you are really nice to someone, if you give them unconditional support, they might even end up falling in love with you. It's not like a psychologist wouldn't have the knowledge that would allow him/her to predict how a patient might respond to their attitude.

I am sorry your hurting though but a lawsuit like this would not stand up in court, sorry.

Perhaps a class action lawsuit against the APA.

[PTSDlovemycats]

What is the APA?

Unless I missed something, you don't indicate if you told your therapist? Have you? How did he/she handle it? Is this why you are so upset? The mishandling of it by your therapist, or the pain, or both?

[Protoform]

Originally Posted by Squiggle328

Unless I missed something, you don't indicate if you told your therapist? Have you? How did he/she handle it? Is this why you are so upset? The mishandling of it by your therapist, or the pain, or both?

I told my therapist many times. But either she did not buy that I was feeling an extreme amount of pain or she didn't care. When I became less friendly and demanded action on her part, she referred me to somebody else.

[Ygrec23]

Protoform said: "Perhaps a class action lawsuit against the APA."

Won't fly. I think you need to do some more research about "transference" and what it means and includes. Wikipedia and then Google. Looking mainly for ".pdf" files. Transference, as far as I'm concerned (I'm not a T), means re-enacting with your T ways of relating that you learned in early childhood with your mother and father. Not falling in love with them. And even falling in love with T's is mostly confined to female patients. You have such a belligerent and angry approach. And I don't think that's going to get you anywhere. If you seriously try to understand not only yourself but therapy too, you'll see that this is a very deep and subtle process dealing almost completely with your own psychological innards. Not those of the therapist. Forget lawsuits. Forget revenge. Find a male T who can lead you in a productive search into yourself, into your own mind, conscious or unconscious, now or back in childhood. And give up this idea of blaming others for problems that come from within yourself. That will not help you at all. At all. Take care.

Originally Posted by Protoform

I told my therapist many times. But either she did not buy that I was feeling an extreme amount of pain or she didn't care. When I became less friendly and demanded action on her part, she referred me to somebody else.

Wow! that is tough. I totally think she mishandled this. I had to work my way up to tell my therapist. I kept hinting around about transference by asking her questions. She never really gave a detailed answer. This made me mad!

I finally wrote her an email. I told her that I had been trying to talk with her about transference, but every time I brought it up, she acted like she didn't have any other clients ever go through that, so I dropped it. I did not want to look like a freak!

I confessed to her that I was having uncomfortable feelings for her. Man, was that hard to do even if it was in an email. I told her ALL about what I was going through.

She replied and calmed be down. Told me it was okay, but we were going to talk about it in our next session. (I had indicated in the email that I did not want to talk about it with her)

It was terrible to sit there with her and talk it. Had she not been so compassionate and understanding I would have been crushed. Just as you are. I cannot imagine the pain you are going through to have your therapist brush you off like that.

I totally see why you are to the point of wanting to file a lawsuit. Therapists have a responsibilty to their clients. Transference is a very common thing for clients to go through. Therapist SHOULD BE well trained in how to deal with this.

[ECHOES]

There are therapists who don't use transference or the therapy relationship as the core of therapy.

I hope you will find another therapist soon to help you with this. When interviewing therapists, be very upfront about what happened (as you are here) so you will be sure to find someone who can and will help you with it.

You might want to research types of therapies and types of therapists here: www.guidetopsychology.com. It can help you when you begin to search, so you know just what you want to find.

[Protoform]

Originally Posted by Squiggle328

I totally see why you are to the point of wanting to file a lawsuit. Therapists have a responsibilty to their clients. Transference is a very common thing for clients to go through. Therapist SHOULD BE well trained in how to deal with this.

But even then, what would such a training consist of? Learning magic words that will soothe the pain the clients are experiencing?

Training should consist of learning to tackle transference before it happens.

[lastyearisblank]

Well, transference in the way you're talking about it here is basically a crush. Training would be based on making the client not feel rejected for having natural feelings. It would also be an important part of the therapy. Some approaches see a crush as an expression of the client's unmet needs and ideally therapy would be a safe enough place to talk about that.

I think as individuals therapists might have a different approach to crushes, some might refuse to talk about it because they see it as extraneous to the therapy, others might see any attempt to sexualize the relationship on the patients' part as something to explore over and over again, in an attempt to salvage the work.

The focus would basically never be on encouraging a patient to have a crush on their therapist. But also does transference need to be like, wiped out? I mean we don't go around suing people for being too loveable that we fall in love with them.

I think (and maybe I'm wrong) the real issue here is a therapist who prompts a client to feel abandoned. That might not be a punishable offense in court, but you certainly have the right to own these feelings. A new T can help with that a lot.

[Protoform]

Originally Posted by lastyearisblank

Well, transference in the way you're talking about it here is basically a crush. Training would be based on making the client not feel rejected for having natural feelings.

And how does that kill the pain of having a crush with the therapist?

It would also be an important part of the therapy. Some approaches see a crush as an expression of the client's unmet needs and ideally therapy would be a safe enough place to talk about that.

If the client wants to talk about it. But what if those unmet needs are not the reason the client went to therapy?

I mean we don't go around suing people for being too loveable that we fall in love with them.

Yes, that would be absurd. And that's why I would never file such a lawsuit, because it would be turned into a joke. However, lawsuit or no lawsuit, therapists should be more sensitive to the emotions of vulnerable clients, and actually take steps to make it unlikely that the clients will develop strong feelings toward them.

Originally Posted by Protoform

and actually take steps to make it unlikely that the clients will develop strong feelings toward them.

Protoform, I'm really curious as to what this would look like. It seems like, from reading your posts, you believe that therapists have the ability to control how their clients feel.

Everyone is so individual...so, perhaps a therapist could be cold and professional and that would discourage strong feelings in one client, but be very enticing to another client. It just depends on the person.

I honestly don't see how therapy would work (for me, anyway) if my T was "pretending" to be someone he is not. It's a real relationship, involving two real people. My T has told me that it would be too confusing to have to be different people for different clients...he is just himself.

Anyhow, having said all of that, I really am curious as to what you have in mind.

I'm sorry you are in so much pain

[lastyearisblank]

You can not be both a "vulnerable client" and not have any unmet needs. Being vulnerable and wanting you needs to be met are the same thing.

You are clearly willing to talk about the unmet needs thing. But I think you are having some trouble with the vulnerability.

And unfortunately, I say this with the most respect, this is absolutely related to being male.

A female patient in love with a male therapist is culturally appropriate. Women are supposed to define themselves through relationships.

For a man if this happens it's some kind of gender death.

You don't like the idea of fixing things through talk, because it's too nonspecific. Can we turn that around? How would you propose that a therapist modulate a client's level of attraction? Through her tone of voice? Her clothing? What you are doing, proposing that your female therapist should have been more aware of herself as an object of desire, is already something our culture already requires.

[crazycanbegood]

*Do not construe this as legal advice.*

I am sorry to hear about the pain you have experienced from having fallen in love with your therapist. It does seem like Ts should warn us of transference, but then the knowledge of the possibility may interfere with the effectiveness of therapy. So many therapists rely on it, and when they notice it or are informed, they are trained to deal with it. It seems like something got mixed it here. Without knowing the full facts, I would guess that you do not have a legal claim, i.e. a viable law suit. I am sorry. The relationship may have caused you pain but she herself did you no harm in the legal sense. She likely met the standard of care in addressing it and then referring you to someone else. Call up an attorney for proper advice though. You could of course always complain to the licensing board. This is of course my opinion without knowing facts.

*Again this is not legal advice.*

[dizgirl2011]

Originally Posted by treehouse

Protoform, I'm really curious as to what this would look like. It seems like, from reading your posts, you believe that therapists have the ability to control how their clients feel.

Everyone is so individual...so, perhaps a therapist could be cold and professional and that would discourage strong feelings in one client, but be very enticing to another client. It just depends on the person.

I honestly don't see how therapy would work (for me, anyway) if my T was "pretending" to be someone he is not. It's a real relationship, involving two real people. My T has told me that it would be too confusing to have to be different people for different clients...he is just himself.

Anyhow, having said all of that, I really am curious as to what you have in mind.

I'm sorry you are in so much pain

I have to agree with Treehouse here. Would a Therapist have to be cold, rude, unattractive, uncaring, dismissive etc in order that they try to ensure clients don't like them?
I honestly feel for you and your pain and I think once you get to a point were you dont feel just as angry anymore you will be able to take on board the rational side of the argument because at the moment it seems your finding it difficult to see another point of view except the one you have which is driven by pain and anger, not logic and reasoning.

[Protoform]

Originally Posted by treehouse

Protoform, I'm really curious as to what this would look like. It seems like, from reading your posts, you believe that therapists have the ability to control how their clients feel.

No. But when a client trusts and likes the therapist, the client is in a vulnerable state, and is likely to feel whatever emotion the therapist attempts to elicit in him. Not saying that the attraction was purposely caused, but to say that a person with a PhD in psychology would not possess at least rudimentary knowledge of attraction is absurd. Obviously, the therapist has a lot of psychological power over the client. Why do you think the APA is so adamant in forbidding therapist/client romantic relationships?

Everyone is so individual...so, perhaps a therapist could be cold and professional and that would discourage strong feelings in one client, but be very enticing to another client. It just depends on the person.

And? Let the therapist adjust her approach according to the individual. If she can't meet the needs of a particular individual, let her refer him to someone who can. But she should not take him as a client. That's unethical, because she is not fit to treat him.

I honestly don't see how therapy would work (for me, anyway) if my T was "pretending" to be someone he is not. It's a real relationship, involving two real people.

It's a real relationship. But it's also a paid relationship. And it's also a relationship that would probably never have flourished outside of the therapist's office.

My T has told me that it would be too confusing to have to be different people for different clients...he is just himself.

Anyhow, having said all of that, I really am curious as to what you have in mind.

I wonder why your T told you that? Did you confront him with the same doubts and insecurities?

Originally Posted by lastyearisblank

You don't like the idea of fixing things through talk, because it's too nonspecific. Can we turn that around? How would you propose that a therapist modulate a client's level of attraction? Through her tone of voice? Her clothing? What you are doing, proposing that your female therapist should have been more aware of herself as an object of desire, is already something our culture already requires.

Those would have been steps in the right direction, don't you think? But it would have been better if she had never accepted me as a client. Then she could have continued being "herself" and I would have been spared a lot of pain.

Originally Posted by crazycanbegood

I am sorry to hear about the pain you have experienced from having fallen in love with your therapist. It does seem like Ts should warn us of transference, but then the knowledge of the possibility may interfere with the effectiveness of therapy. So many therapists rely on it, and when they notice it or are informed, they are trained to deal with it.

If you are right and they rely on transference, that might explain why they do nothing to prevent it. Meanwhile, vulnerable clients like myself go through pain.

Originally Posted by dizgirl2011

I have to agree with Treehouse here. Would a Therapist have to be cold, rude, unattractive, uncaring, dismissive etc in order that they try to ensure clients don't like them?

Depending on the client, a neutral attitude would suffice.

I honestly feel for you and your pain and I think once you get to a point were you dont feel just as angry anymore you will be able to take on board the rational side of the argument because at the moment it seems your finding it difficult to see another point of view except the one you have which is driven by pain and anger, not logic and reasoning.

I find nothing illogical about my argument. Most men like attractive women. Lay people know it. Psychologists know it. Psychologists probably understand it a lot better than lay people do. So why should a psychologist stand back and watch people like me endure pain? I wish my previous therapist had been upfront about this danger and asked me if I wanted to start treatment with her or another therapist. If I had known what I was getting myself into I would have found another therapist. Who knows, maybe the therapy would have been successful and by now I would have made something out of my miserable existence.

[Elysium]

Originally Posted by Protoform

I think that's right. But in that case, shouldn't therapists be cautious lest they lead a vulnerable patient into a painful trap?

Well, what I can say is that pain is relative to each person. No T, or client is going to know going into therapy how much distress the therapy is going to cause. More often than not, when a person enters therapy and begins to work their issues, the pain increases as hurtful things get brought to the surface.

Transference does not equal "falling in love" with a therapist. I am curious to know though, in what ways do you feel that your therapist has lead you into a painful trap? What sort of behaviors did she take part in?

As far as you being vulnerable, we are all vulnerable...even therapists are vulnerable. You are stating that your T made you feel love for her and you sound angry. Love is painful. It's not all rainbows and butterfly's.....it can't be. There will always be strife and sorrow in love. The important thing to learn is how to communicate through this strife and sorrow to preserve the relationship. It is okay to be angry for your pain, but at some point you need to realize that your pain is not your T's fault. It is a natural feeling to feel these types of emotions towards someone who treats you with positive regard and looks after your best interests.

Anger is often a secondary emotion which serves to protect humans from their own vulnerabilities...so instead of having to feel the love, and the hurt from not being able to have that love, the anger kicks in so you can have someone to blame.

You can research this all you want....and you can contact an attorney and consult with them, but as a non-attorney I can pretty much tell you that you do not have a case. Transference is a common occurrence in therapy. It can be very healthy for the therapeutic relationship if the client is willing to work through it with the therapist, or it can be a devastating occurrence if the client is not willing to work through it.

So, I guess it's your choice as to how you want it to go. You can choose to work with T, or whichever T you end up with and you can do what you can to process your feelings and emotions so you can have a more positive experience, or you can choose to not work through it and become a victim of yourself.

It's up to you....it really is a choice.

[Can't Stop Crying]

Protoform - I can hear all your pain coming through as anger. I wish I had some magic words that would make this easier for you. Sometimes life just sucks and we have to pick up the pieces and move on. Perhaps this would be a good starting place with your new T. For example...
I felt violated by old T and now have angry, vengeful thoughts in addition to the pain...

[PreacherHeckler]

Proto, there is no particular therapeutic stance that will prevent the client from experiencing strong feelings toward the T, and T's aren't mind readers who can predict the kinds of feelings a client may have before they accept him or her as a client. A neutral stance is just as likely to evoke intense feelings, and they may be intensely positive or negative depending on the particular client and the issues he or she brings to therapy.

Originally Posted by Protoform

I wonder why your T told you that? Did you confront him with the same doubts and insecurities?

Absolutely! I did not trust my T at all when I started therapy, and I was suspicious of everything he said/did.

We've worked together for many years, and I can see now that he is his authentic self...which is wonderful most of the time, and kind of hard some of the time...because it turns out he's human and makes mistakes. But I know he is him, and I can trust him, and the insecurities and mistrust that I brought to therapy with me have faded with work and time and experience.

But yes, it took me quite a while to develop trust, and it was a bumpy road getting here.

Having doubts and insecurities about something, and having that something be the truth are not the same thing....but it took a long time for me to figure that out.

Some therapists are very uncomfortable handling transference. Some don't even believe in it! That's rarer nowadays but older therapists might still have the belief.

But in my unprofessional opinion it may essentially "freak" therapists out. Even though it shouldn't. They are human.

I've used the transference I have with my therapist to learn a great bit about myself. This is why. I have negative transference with him, meaning I can't stand him most of the time. We have successfully linked this back to the fact that I see him as my abuser, which we also linked back to the fact that my therapist is controlling in some ways and that's where things go wrong with me. It's such a topsy turny thing. IMO on my end my therapist was transferent first. And I counter transferred. He played caretaker, because my situation was "damsel in distress" and caretaker equals control. And now I hate "him" for it. Because someone controlling me is the absolute worse thing I could experience.

This led to being able to see why jobs never worked out. Why I would leave them quickly, because I can't stand having a boss stand over me. Why I've never had a boyfriend, because I don't want to "belong" to someone. Why I'm so antidependent and cannot ask for help, ever. Because I would feel as if I owed someone something and I can't take feeling as if I have to be needy, because it makes me seem less powerful and may result in me being victimized.

But honestly because imo my therapist was transferent first, there was a long period where we didn't talk about "it" at all. And it was very frustrating dealing with it on my own. I would bring it up and he would avoid. Because it required seeing flaws in himself. (being a rescuer). Finally after a year of this and me being patient, because I really wanted to learn from my experience he admitted that he felt the need to rescue, control and take care of me. None of which I wanted or enjoyed. But we both learned from it. Ts are people too and have their flaws also. You can go through therapy your whole life and still find flaws. It will take one patient to "scratch the itch" and then they learn too.

You might have scratched your Ts itch. And she wasn't comfortable with it. Does it make it right? No. I don't believe she was purposely having an intent to harm though. She, like anyone else isn't ready to face some skeletons, so she referred you elsewhere.

[eskielover]

When you were a younger person (or even older), there are times when relating to others around us that we can end up with a crush on someone & have feelings for them that aren't the way they feel about us.

Growing up is about learning the skills to handle that kind of pain & those kinds of situations....unfortunately, many of us didn't learn those skills as we were growing up.....& need to learn them at the older age in Therapy. If you aren't willing to work with your T on learning the skills, & you come across with an attitude of not being willing to learn skills, then it doesn't surprise me that your T is referring you to another T who might be able to relate to you in way that can get through to you.

Law suits aren't the answer to every pain we feel in life. Learning the skills to be able to handle them is the answer....but you need to be willing to learn those skills rather than to go on attack when you are feeling pain & trying to point fingers at whose fault it is.

The pointing fingers would probably go way back to your childhood. There are just some things in life that we have to accept as being what they are & learn the skills to handle those things....which is our responsibility, not the courts responsibility to hold some innocent person responsible for your emotions.

I'm guessing that your T doesn't feel that you are open to learning those skills from her which is probably why she is referring you to another T.

Maybe you would be better off getting a T who focuses on DBT (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy). It's a lot of work but the best therapy I have encountered in my 17 years of therapy. It teaches & gives practice in mindfulness which teaches the ability to identify our emotional thoughts & rational thoughts & come up with wise solutions to problems we come across in life. There is also a section of Distress Tolerance, learning how to handle distressful situations that come up in life. There are also sections on learning about Emotional Regulation & Interpersonal Effectiveness & learning the skills to be able to use them in our everyday life. Skills that would have been good for everyone to learn as we were growing up, but most of us weren't in a healthy enough family life or had parents who had not idea how to teach us these skills while we were growing up.

Therapy is all about learning & practicing skills to help us in life, not trying to point fingers & accuse others for how we are feeling or how we act, or how we respond to situations. When we can learn to handle the situations we find ourselves is, we don't dig ourselves deeper into continuing situations that have brought us to Therapy in the first place. It helps us look at the past situations & also help understand where we have come from & how to handle the emotions that we are dealing with in relation to past issues we need to work through.

Therapy is our WORK, it's not finding a T who will magically FIX everything in our life, but help us put past situations in their appropriate perspective & learn skills to help us in the future. Finding a T who will work with you in this way rather than like my past T's who just sat there & listened to me talk, is critical to our healing & learning how to STAY HEALED in the future.