[Protoform]

I am not looking for money.

I just want the legal system of the US to force the APA (American Psychological Association) as well as all the other mental health associations in this country to demand all mental health clinics and professionals in private practice to change their disclosure statements to include the dangers of "romantic transference" and warn prospective clients of the psychological pain that they might endure if they feel attracted toward their therapist (this is not a rare occurrence in therapy).

I know that I am not alone on this one. It suffices to read the"Romantic Feelings Toward My Therapist" forum to find out that the pain we experienced in therapy goes well beyond "feelings toward our therapists that we feel uncomfortable about". It is true that pain sometimes is part of therapy, but feeling unrequited love can hardly be considered therapeutic. It's just emotional torture which absolutely nothing positive can come out of.

Who wants to help me make a difference and prevent innocent people, especially those who are already emotionally vulnerable, from getting hurt?

[dizgirl2011]

Is it not possible that all type of transference have the potential to cause pain or distress, as apposed to just Romantic Transference?

[emilyjeanne]

Originally Posted by Protoform

I am not looking for money.

I just want the legal system of the US to force the APA (American Psychological Association) as well as all the other mental health associations in this country to demand all mental health clinics and professionals in private practice to change their disclosure statements to include the dangers of "romantic transference" and warn prospective clients of the psychological pain that they might endure if they feel attracted toward their therapist (this is not a rare occurrence in therapy).

I know that I am not alone on this one. It suffices to read the"Romantic Feelings Toward My Therapist" forum to find out that the pain we experienced in therapy goes well beyond "feelings toward our therapists that we feel uncomfortable about". It is true that pain sometimes is part of therapy, but feeling unrequited love can hardly be considered therapeutic. It's just emotional torture which absolutely nothing positive can come out of.

Who wants to help me make a difference and prevent innocent people, especially those who are already emotionally vulnerable, from getting hurt?

Hey,

You would have to go to each of the licensing boards instead of the associations. Because it is the licensing boards that has the power to enforce a change. The associations like the apa could recommend the disclosure but cannot enforce it.

[BlessedRhiannon]

Originally Posted by dizgirl2011

Is it not possible that all type of transference have the potential to cause pain or distress, as apposed to just Romantic Transference?

Excellent point, Dizgirl.

And, in fact, all relationships, not just the theraputic one, have the potential to cause difficult emotions...even unrequited love. Would you have everyone you encounter give you a disclaimer first? "Warning, your feelings for me may not be returned and may cause you pain."

I'm not trying to make light of the emotional pain you felt...just pointing out that the feelings, whatever they may be, are not limited to therapy, and not limited to romantic feelings. It's something that each person must learn to deal with.

[SoupDragon]

That's really interesting, it is a very confusing / painful think to experience, but I was just wondering if this was to be highlighted as an unwanted / unpleasant side effect, what difference would it make?

the legal system already bhas more than enough impact on my health issues as does the insurance industry. i don't want any more control...how many times i can see my doctor, how long a session, pre approval, etc. i don't need them telling me i can not or must not get attached to my therapist..nor do i need them putting their big fist on my doctor.

i am not a medical doctor. i do not have the training or knowledge. i have to trust their skill and yes power that they are treating me safely and in the right manner. risky yes.

BUT that said. i am not an auto mechanic. so i must put the same faith in the guy who works on my vehicle. his shoddy work could kill me. i have to believe that he has my best intrests at hand. period. if i have doubts then i must either ask him point blank or go find someone else to do the work. if i don't & i get hurt, then shame on me.

you got hurt. i realize that. for that i am sorry.

i got hurt badly by my parents...i can not sue them. (deceased)..i figure i have to make choices...i can live with the damage they did & wallow in it (for the lack of a better word) or strive to be better than they were & make improvements. i chose the later...if it involves therapy & taking chances then so be it. it hurts, it's hard..but it is so much better than the alternative.

i guess what i am trying to say...will this solve the pain you are feeling? maybe? will it fix the bullying you endured? you have asked so many questions, challenged everything & everyone...maybe therapy isn't for you...& that is ok...maybe you aren't at that place yet or haven't found the right person, what ever...maybe you just need to make some peace with yourself.

i got bullied big time..everyone all has issues...no one 's are worse than anyone;'s esle but i think there comes a point where you have to move on..i can either be "stumpy child abuse victim, ptsd terror victim" or i can just be stumpy...it's a choice. i only get to live once...i just don't want it to be a miserable time

oh so i guess i won't be joining you..
stumpy

[Protoform]

Originally Posted by dizgirl2011

Is it not possible that all type of transference have the potential to cause pain or distress, as apposed to just Romantic Transference?

I don't know. I am just speaking about the type of transference I experienced. My guess is that Romantic Transference is more painful than other types of transference. Just look at the subforum under this one. Obviously Romantic Transference is that big of a deal since the people running this site felt the need to create a forum for people to discuss "uncomfortable" feelings toward their therapist.

The disclosure statement could simply list "transference" as a potential negative side-effect that can cause you intense pain and lower your quality of life and even lead you to contemplate suicide.

Why won't they mention transference in the disclosure statement? Do they really need to play on the ignorance of their patients for the therapy to be effective?

I know for a fact that if someone had had the humanity to tell me what I was getting myself into I never would have gone to therapy. Either that or I would have requested a male therapist. And what did I get out of that stupid therapy? Nothing. I am even more miserable than last year.

Transference toward a therapist is not the same thing as transference toward a layperson. In the case of romantic transference, it's unlikely that the layperson would treat you in a manner that's likely to elicit romantic feelings toward him/her, unless he/she is actually hitting on you. Besides, in a therapeutic relationship there is the issue of power, where one of the parties is in control and the other is submissive.

[elliemay]

Without a doubt there can be iatrogenic effects from psychotherapy. Even Freud noticed that a lot of his female patients fell in love with him.

It is a painful, but rather interesting complication of therapy.

On one hand developing loving feelings for your therapist is a natural and good thing. I think it means that when someone is nice and attentive to us, we can response in a meaningful and appropriate way. We want to be around them. Makes perfect sense to me.

On the other hand, WTH? We don't even know this person and yet here we are, ascribing all of these feelings to the therapist. We have to absorb all of this rejection (whether perceived or real I don't know) and somehow in the end, it all gets resolved and we are better people for it. In that sense, it's totally absurd.

I know a lot of what Freud interpreted has largely been discredited, but the man did make some good points. He contended that the client can not "win" in the transference. Otherwise, the client will continue those same behaviors in relationships outside of therapy and remained locked, usually in the same issues that brought them to therapy in the first place.

The therapist should model and remain steadfast, thus providing the client new way of interacting.

I do agree that the perils of psychotherapy should be laid out more clearly to the patient. In every disclosure, consent etc... there should be a clause that very very clearly states "this is going to suck, the goal of therapy is to make things suck less."

I mean even cancer patients are very clearly told that, with chemotherapy, they might get worse before they get better and, even then, there are no guarantees.

[dizgirl2011]

Originally Posted by Protoform

Transference toward a therapist is not the same thing as transference toward a layperson. In the case of romantic transference, it's unlikely that the layperson would treat you in a manner that's likely to elicit romantic feelings toward him/her, unless he/she is actually hitting on you. Besides, in a therapeutic relationship there is the issue of power, where one of the parties is in control and the other is submissive.

What did your therapist do that elicited romantic feelings from you towards her?

[lastyearisblank]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

That's really interesting, it is a very confusing / painful think to experience, but I was just wondering if this was to be highlighted as an unwanted / unpleasant side effect, what difference would it make?

I totally agree with this. Life has so many unpleasant side affects. But I think if you see the mistakes as part of the whole (and even as an expression of who you are!) it's easier to love them. You can't control what is going to happen when you put yourself out there. The only thing you can control is the final product, which is how you understand it and the choices you make going forward. (IMO)

[Protoform]

Originally Posted by dizgirl2011

What did your therapist do that elicited romantic feelings from you towards her?

She treated me like no other woman has treated me before. No, she did not strip to her panties or make sexual contact, but she treated me in a very "friendly" manner. I can't imagine a woman in the outside world treating a guy she did not feel romantically interested in that way. It's nearly impossible to not feel attraction toward a person who treats you that way.

Originally Posted by [B

SoupDragon[/b]]That's really interesting, it is a very confusing / painful think to experience, but I was just wondering if this was to be highlighted as an unwanted / unpleasant side effect, what difference would it make?

The difference it would make is that people like me would think twice before signing up for therapy or perhaps request a male therapist.

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by Protoform

She treated me like no other woman has treated me before. No, she did not strip to her panties or make sexual contact, but she treated me in a very "friendly" manner. I can't imagine a woman in the outside world treating a guy she did not feel romantically interested in that way. It's nearly impossible to not feel attraction toward a person who treats you that way.


The difference it would make is that people like me would think twice before signing up for therapy or perhaps request a male therapist.

Do people develop strong feelings to same sex therapists as well?

[jexa]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

Do people develop strong feelings to same sex therapists as well?

Yes. I can attest to that. My transference issues are always with same sex T's. Not in a romantic way, but in a dependent, desperate way.. like wanting a really close big sister or a mother, but much more than that. Don't know how to explain it, but it is extremely painful.

I agree that it might be helpful if transference was explained in the consent process. I am not one to sue for things like this though.

[Brightheart]

I had a male therapist, experienced strong feelings for him, and this ended up being very healing for me. I think that things unfolded for me exactly the way I needed them to. Transference is a very personal thing and there is a lot one can learn from it.

Protoform, I'm very sorry for your pain. Part of what transference can do is show you where your needs/wants are and you may then apply this new self-awareness to your outside of the room relationships. I haven't read through the entire thread...did you explore your feelings in therapy with your therapist? This can really be helpful in understanding.

[dizgirl2011]

Originally Posted by Protoform

She treated me like no other woman has treated me before. No, she did not strip to her panties or make sexual contact, but she treated me in a very "friendly" manner. I can't imagine a woman in the outside world treating a guy she did not feel romantically interested in that way. It's nearly impossible to not feel attraction toward a person who treats you that way.

For some men they may have related to her more like a mother/carer figure, even if she had done the exact same therapy with them. Often its what the client brings with them from their lives that indicates the type of transference that will occur.

What was it that she did, that no other woman has done before? You kind of indicate she flirted with you in some way, when you say that you can't imagine a woman in the outside world treating a guy she did not feel romantically interested in that way - however I also get the sense she didn't, that she showed she cared about you and your wellbeing and that made you feel good to have someone do that (which is what a therapist usually does) and you began to feel attracted to her because of that...is that right?

xxx

[Protoform]

Originally Posted by dizgirl2011

What was it that she did, that no other woman has done before? You kind of indicate she flirted with you in some way, when you say that you can't imagine a woman in the outside world treating a guy she did not feel romantically interested in that way - however I also get the sense she didn't, that she showed she cared about you and your wellbeing and that made you feel good to have someone do that (which is what a therapist usually does) and you began to feel attracted to her because of that...is that right?

xxx

It is right. I wish she had acted in a manner that was less likely to result in my feeling attracted to her.

But I would NEVER do what she did to me to another person. It's cruel.

Nobody has the right to make another person go through this pain in the name of curing them, let alone if nobody even care to mention in the informed consent form that this could happen.

[SoupDragon]

You sound so angry and hurt and I am wondering whether you think you may feel less intense emotions if you were to be successful in ensuring that transference is always explained explicitly prior to T, or whether you would still feel angry and hurt?.

I also wonder if it would be helpful to you see another T now to explore your reaction to your first T?

[dizgirl2011]

Originally Posted by Protoform

It is right. I wish she had acted in a manner that was less likely to result in my feeling attracted to her.

But I would NEVER do what she did to me to another person. It's cruel.

Nobody has the right to make another person go through this pain in the name of curing them, let alone if nobody even care to mention in the informed consent form that this could happen.

What do you think she could have done to prevent you from having these feelings?

One thing that strikes me is that even if a new client was given an explanation of romantic transferance I don't think most people would pay much attention to it. I don't know about you, but I never even considered the fact that I'd attach, at any level, with a therapist. I just thought of myself as too strong and independent for anything like that to happen. I think many people tend to scoff at the idea that a therapeutic relationship can be so personal and intimate on the level that happens, especially for themselves. It isn't until you've actually experienced the relationship that you truly understand just how painful the emotions can be that are triggered. And this might be a bit biased on my part and I'm basing it only on my own experience with friends of mine only, but men that I've talked to who have experienced the intimacy of a therapeutic relationship are even more shocked and taken aback than the women at the deep level of intimacy that develops between themselves and their therapist. Most of them talk about never having such a close relationship with another person, one that triggers painful feelings of vulnerability. So, even if our therapist's provided us with an upfront explanation of transferance, I'm not sure how many of us would really believe it was something that would actually happen to any of us.

[ECHOES]

^^^ Excellent post!

And, our reactions in therapy are ours. They come from right inside and nowhere else. They are about us, and they are a rich source of information about us and, while it can be so hard, it is the very thing that we open ourselves to, we explore it and learn about us... the reason we are there.

[Protoform]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

^^^ Excellent post!

And, our reactions in therapy are ours. They come from right inside and nowhere else. They are about us, and they are a rich source of information about us and, while it can be so hard, it is the very thing that we open ourselves to, we explore it and learn about us... the reason we are there.

Irrelevant. Those reactions were elicited by the therapist. Obviously if the therapist had been neutral many of us wouldn't have felt anything toward him or her.

I am a loner. And I am okay with that.

If I wanted to live a life where I deal with the emotions I went through in "therapy" I would at least attempt to live a different lifestyle.

I don't need an intimate relationship with another person. I don't want an intimate relationship with another person. If I enjoyed those emotions perhaps I would be a different person. But I never asked to be turned into a different person. I went to therapy because I wanted help dealing with life issues unrelated to relationships.

The therapist couldn't respect that and ran the same ******** routine she runs on all her patients.

Personally, I am glad the therapy failed. Personally, I'm glad that my conviction to stay away from people, especially women, is now stronger than ever.

My only regret, other than signing up for that therapy, is that I was unable to make the therapist feel the pain I felt. Nothing would have given me more pleasure.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by Protoform

Irrelevant. Those reactions were elicited by the therapist. Obviously if the therapist had been neutral many of us wouldn't have felt anything toward him or her.

I am a loner. And I am okay with that.

If I wanted to live a life where I deal with the emotions I went through in "therapy" I would at least attempt to live a different lifestyle.

I don't need an intimate relationship with another person. I don't want an intimate relationship with another person. If I enjoyed those emotions perhaps I would be a different person. But I never asked to be turned into a different person. I went to therapy because I wanted help dealing with life issues unrelated to relationships.

The therapist couldn't respect that and ran the same ******** routine she runs on all her patients.

Personally, I am glad the therapy failed. Personally, I'm glad that my conviction to stay away from people, especially women, is now stronger than ever.

My only regret, other than signing up for that therapy, is that I was unable to make the therapist feel the pain I felt. Nothing would have given me more pleasure.

no one can make you feel anything. it is your "choice" to respond and react--which is why people are saying that how you react is entirely because of your experiences in life. even if a T was 100% neutral (which is impossible since they are not robots), you'd still experience some sort of feelings. my T is more psychoanalytically inclined, and is more like a "blank slate." Yet, I have brought in my issues into what she says, or not says. I take that neutral stance, and color it with my own experiences.

For example: For a long time, I thought that her non-response towards some things I said equaled her anger with me. I was terrified. What I eventually figured out through talking about it with my T, and her consistent behavior--is that I thought that because of my relationship with my mom growing up. Silence = Anger. My T wasn't angry, she was allowing me the space to think/talk. But because I had experienced silence as anger growing up, I automatically thought it was the same with her.

Originally Posted by velcro003

For example: For a long time, I thought that her non-response towards some things I said equaled her anger with me. I was terrified. What I eventually figured out through talking about it with my T, and her consistent behavior--is that I thought that because of my relationship with my mom growing up. Silence = Anger. My T wasn't angry, she was allowing me the space to think/talk. But because I had experienced silence as anger growing up, I automatically thought it was the same with her.

I so agree with this. When my T used to sit in his chair and look at me silently, I felt like he was "watching" me and wanting to abuse me...because that was my experience as a child with a man sitting in a chair and watching me play. Velcro would take that exact same thing..T sitting and looking silently...and feel like he was angry. Same exact behavior from T, different reactions, based on our histories.

That's how therapy works. And it's PAINFUL, for sure...and after the pain, comes the healing. Slowly, but surely.

[Protoform]

Originally Posted by velcro003

no one can make you feel anything. it is your "choice" to respond and react--

That is not true. It is possible to elicit emotions in people. If I insult you and all your family, you might have an initial angry feeling. At that point you can choose to entertain that feeling or employ a coping mechanism to make it go away. But the initial feeling is still there.

You can say whatever you want.

I did not want to feel attracted to my therapist. I tried to not feel attracted to my therapist but I failed because ultimately we, human beings, don't have 100% control over our unconscious minds. I don't need to prove this to you. I know it is true.

I believe that asking me to not feeling attracted to the therapist is akin to asking a heterosexual man to not feel sexually aroused if he sees an attractive naked woman. You can close your eyes... You can run away... But you can't really successfully suppress the initial sexual arousal.

In my case my best bet would have been to quit therapy before the cancer grew bigger, but if I had done that then people would have said that I failed to solve my problems because I quit therapy.

which is why people are saying that how you react is entirely because of your experiences in life. even if a T was 100% neutral (which is impossible since they are not robots), you'd still experience some sort of feelings. my T is more psychoanalytically inclined, and is more like a "blank slate." Yet, I have brought in my issues into what she says, or not says. I take that neutral stance, and color it with my own experiences.

For example: For a long time, I thought that her non-response towards some things I said equaled her anger with me. I was terrified. What I eventually figured out through talking about it with my T, and her consistent behavior--is that I thought that because of my relationship with my mom growing up. Silence = Anger. My T wasn't angry, she was allowing me the space to think/talk. But because I had experienced silence as anger growing up, I automatically thought it was the same with her.

I still believe that it is unethical not to warn patients about transference.So why is it that it's so much trouble to warn patients about transference? Is it because then the therapy wouldn't work? (By the way, most people probably don't even read informed consent forms. But if they go to therapy and end up experiencing this unnecessary torture, at least they can't say they were not warned.)

[ECHOES]

Irrelevant. Those reactions were elicited by the therapist. Obviously if the therapist had been neutral many of us wouldn't have felt anything toward him or her.

Delusional. The therapist does not control your reactions. Your feelings about intimacy are yours alone. This would be comparable to blaming the victim of abuse for eliciting the abuse response in the abuser. Totally incorrect.