[rainbow8]

I've got to discuss "love" with my T. I know she cares a great deal for me and has told me she likes me very much and I'm special, but when I finally got the nerve to actually say "I love you" to her, she hurt me. I asked if she could say it to me (I know I shouldn't have asked her that) and she said it would be "dis-genuine". She even asked me if that was a word! Then she went on to say how much she cares and how she has a special place in her heart for me.

But why couldn't she just say she loves me? I know it wouldn't have meant "loves me" in a personal way, but in a way a T loves a client. I don't see the difference in what she said. I also wonder what it means that she doesn't "love me". My T is so loving in her actions. Doesn't that mean she loves me?

I didn't realize I was hurt by this. At the time I told her I was fine that she didn't say it but maybe that's why I got angry and scribbled all over those papers. It hurts that she is so, so nice but can't even say those words! I understand that my former Ts would never say it, but this T is so different, and has fewer boundaries.

I remember her saying "you're lovable" early in therapy. Also, once when we were doing IFS and the child part said "I want you to say you love her", she said "I love HER". I noticed that and never forgot the way she worded it.

It's semantics, or is it not? Some people's Ts tell them they love them. Probably the majority don't. In any case, I feel hurt because my T wouldn't say those words to me.

Hi Rainbow, I understand why you would feel hurt I think if it matters to you, then it matters. I do think that each T has their own blanket approach to this (whether they will say 'love') and that is what you are bumping up against, rather than anything about your T's feelings for you.

My T's approach has changed a lot over the 2+ years I've been seeing her. When I used to tell her I needed her to love me, she would say 'but I do care about you very much'. When I asked her, she told me this was the 'boundaried' version of 'love'. Later, she started saying 'I feel loving towards you'. Now she says all the time 'I feel a lot of love for you'. If I ask her if she loves me, she says 'of course I do' (to me it will never be an 'of course'!!). But she hasn't, won't, (and I suspect never will) say those three words in that order- I love you. Which isn't important to me because she is saying the same thing with other words.

But I'm going through a phase at the moment where I wobble badly when I think of her seeing client after client after client, and I ask her to love me the most. Her response is 'You know that my relationship with you is different, I just worry that when you ask me that, it comes from a place of love and care not being enough to go around, and the difficulty of sharing, so irrespectively of how I feel towards you it feels unhelpful to say yes'. I think I'm trying to say that even though my T says all the time that she loves me, there is still something that she won't say, and although her reasons are eminently sensible and therapeutic, it's still something I long to hear. I think there will always be some things we can't have...

[skysblue]

Rainbow, aren't actions more important than words? Words can be much easier manipulated than actions and can also be interpreted in a myriad ways. Actions, like how your T treats you, are more concrete. I think your T believes she must be very careful with you because this is such an issue for you. And if she does exactly what you want her to do, she will not be helping you grow and learn to be more independent emotionally. Her saying those words could likely increase your dependence on her. Pay attention to her actions and there you will discover the kind of love a therapist can give.
Just my thoughts...

Oh gosh, I see exactly why you would be hurt. That must have been so hard to hear.
Maybe your T feels that as an ethical therapist, in her opinion, a good T doesn't say "I love you" to clients because it might start some sort of heavy attachment? Or maybe it was something she was taught in her T training?

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Also, once when we were doing IFS and the child part said "I want you to say you love her", she said "I love HER".

This seems inconsistent with her current stance. Saying she loves a part of you is saying she loves you, isn't it? I would ask her why she can love a part of you but not all of you. Does it mean that some of your parts are more acceptable to her than others? Or maybe she has simply changed her boundaries since then and now has decided not to tell clients she loves them.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

she said it would be "dis-genuine".

I think the word she was looking for is disingenuous. I would not want to ask my T to be disingenuous. I think it shows how close you are that she could be honest about this with you.

Originally Posted by rainbow

Does it matter if T won't say they love you?

Everyone will be different, but it sounds like it matters to you.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

But why couldn't she just say she loves me? I know it wouldn't have meant "loves me" in a personal way, but in a way a T loves a client.

It could be that your T has doubts about your ability to understand the difference. Maybe she thinks you would misinterpret it.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

My T is so loving in her actions. Doesn't that mean she loves me?

Could you just focus on her actions and the message they are sending you, instead of trying to get her to say it in words? I think there can be a lot of comfort in that.

[vaffla]

I can certainly understand the rejected feeling that such a saying can cause . I have been there a couple of times with former T, when I felt she loved me, but she wouldn't acknowledge it. She said she doesn't think about her clients in such terms. I felt very frustrated and rejected. I think that despite the fact that she will not change her stance, it needs to be processed between you two (your feelings of anger and rejection).
My current T told me she would not say to a client "I love you" because she would fear that would make the client feel seduced. By "feeling seduced" I believe she meant getting the longings over-stimulated to an unhealthy extent that would only cause you pain eventually.
Hugs to you, I know it's so painful .

[rainbow8]

Improving: Thanks for posting to me. I haven't seen you around much and I missed you. It may be that my T won't say those words in that order. It took me more than a year to say them to her in "that order". To me, "I love you" is for spouses, SOs, kids, or very close friends. It feels funny for me to say it to my T so I can understand her not wanting to say it to me.

I like the way your T put it, that saying "I care about you very much" is the boundaried way of saying "I love you" to a client. I know that there are some things we can't have with our T and that's the reality.

skysblue, yes, actions are more important than words but the way she deliberately said it, hurt me though I know she'd never, ever want to hurt me. It's a fact I have to accept. My T doesn't love me. I know it's just a word but in light of the fact that my favorite song is "Where is Love" because I want love, it's hard to emotionally accept the reality. I feel good that she has a special place in heart for me, though. That has to be good enough, but my feelings still are what they are, like you feel about your Ts explanation about the phone calls.

SarahMichelle, I think my T said it because it's true. She doesn't "love" me in the way she thinks of love, I suppose. I have to ask her what she means by love. I need to discuss it with her very badly.

sunrise: Thanks for your detailed response and questions. I think it's semantics again. She wouldn't say "I love YOU" but she would say "I love HER" because it was the child who was asking for it. When I told her I love you recently it was the adult me saying it. I remember commenting on the way she said it and saying "you won't say I love you" but she didn't say anything then and I didn't pursue it.

I looked it up. "Ingenuous" means honest, frank. So, it would be dishonest if she said "I love you" to me which means she doesn't love me no matter how you interpret it. I'm sort of surprised because her actions show love, much more than any T I've had!!!

I don't know if she thinks I'd misinterpret it because she could have SAID that. Instead, she explained what she did feel for me explicitly, that she cares very much, likes me a lot, and has a special place in her heart for me. No way does it not hurt me a little.

Yes, I am comforted by my T. She's wonderful, but I was so angry when I colored over her design last session. Out of nowhere, and it wasn't just missing a week, it was bigger than that. It's to do with her not giving me everything, which I understand, of course, but part of me wants to rebel and say "please say that you love me". Not romantic love, just love maybe like a mother's love.

vaffla: I've read your posts about your T and I thought she did say that she loves you, in a beautiful way. But she didn't say the words in that order, did she? My longings have always been over-stimulated in therapy whether a T gives me some of what I ask for or whether she doesn't. My current T is trying to meet a lot of my needs at the same time encouraging me to get more of them met in "real life."

[rainbow8]

I see my T tomorrow morning. I don't know how to talk about my feelings with her. It's easy to write it all out here, but when I get to my session, I will probably be petrified! What should I do?

[Wren_]

(((((((Rainbow)))))))))) can you write them out for her as well?

I left a counselor at the start of this year because they wouldn't say they cared (let alone loved me). I was so desperate to hear that someone cared and they just wouldn't give those words. Looking back now I know the actions were there but we can get so fixated by needing to hear something or wanting something particular to happen than when it doesn't; our emotional response is super extreme and can be so painful and then the rest of our response can follow. Even though you know your T does love you; I can really understand wanting to hear those words and in the way you want to hear them

[rainbow8]

Thanks, tigergirl. The thing is, I've already written her emails about my feelings. I need to talk to her face to face. I'm sure I will manage somehow.

[Wren_]

Could you write prompt cards then? to encourage you to share what you need to?

and add things to them like our initials to remind yourself we are there with you as much as we can be; cheering you on

[granite1]

jumping in your pocket rain.i know you will figure out a way to talk to T about how hurt you are about her not saying that she loves you.i loves ya girlwith big hugs also

[rainbow_rose]

I once wrote one sentence - simply saying what we needed to talk about - and gave it to her. It opened the door for more communication. Maybe one sentence (i.e. I need to talk about ..... ) is all you need.

Sending positive thoughts for your session, rainbow!

[rainbow8]

Thanks again, tigergirl. I think I will write it down. Eek, I have a lot I want to bring with me tomorrow which means I'll never get to all of it. I'd better concentrate just on this "love" stuff.

granite, thanks for wanting to jump in! Oh, I just remembered. I want to bring back T's bear. The "twin bears" were sitting in my bedroom all week. I didn't look at them much, but I'm glad they were together, though it's silly, I know.

thank you, rainbow_rose! Last week I wrote that sentence "you looked too good" on the paper I was scribbling on, but I'm trying to forget that. I don't know how I can forget last session, though. It was kind of traumatic and maybe I need to talk about it too. I guess it's relevant, my being angry because of my feelings for her. My stomach is getting all jumpy thinking about my last session and scribbling over all those pages!

I also could email my T right now and write that I want to talk about love. But I will never stop writing so I'm not going to do that. I'm going to try to go to sleep early since I have to get up so early for my session.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

and she said it would be "dis-genuine"

The word is "disingenuous" and means "not candid or sincere". If you ask her to tell you she loves you; that's putting your words in her mouth. That can't ever work. I don't think you want her to parrot your words?

I would look at how "like you very much and have a special place in her heart" is not what you mean by/want with "love"? Why does your exact word have to be said? Even if she said it, it would still be her word and not the same as your word because it would be coming from her and have her meaning behind it, not what you think and want it to mean, only coming from her.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I see my T tomorrow morning. I don't know how to talk about my feelings with her. It's easy to write it all out here, but when I get to my session, I will probably be petrified! What should I do?

I think it may be important to understand why you want her to say the words "I love you" to you, but if you engage in a discussion about whether she loves you or not, I doubt that will be productive.

Maybe a little internal processing might help, how would things change in your therapy and/or your life if she said she loved you?

[unaluna]

When I say it to my T, I know it's meaningless, I just like saying it, I like how it sounds. Usually I say, "I love my (hisname)" and he may or may not reply in kind; it's often after an intense moment. But it always feels safe. What WILL trigger me is the odd slightly flirtatious or flippant remark, again usually in response to me, or even serious statement, that makes me think he truly is in love with me AND has expectations of the relationship. We discussed this just last week - I still don't feel unsafe, it's that I don't know what his EXPECTATIONS are (in reality, none; we are just both very outgoing in public in RL). And this puts me back in childhood, with everyone dodging and smirking. The I love you's back then were said only by me, and they were demanded and mechanical. I would hope our T's, especially with our population, i.e., those of us with strong child presences?, would not so much cater to us, as design therapies in this regard to fit our needs, not theirs.

[Butterflies Are Free]

I think I really understand your feelings. Years ago, when my T said to me, "Well, you know that I love you", I was shocked and pleased. I guess I never thought that Ts could say those words, but I know that I love hearing them. It is hard when you want your T to say those words but she tells you she can't. I suppose she is setting a boundary, but it doesn't make it any easier. As far as getting to the bottom of trying to figure out why you want those words said to you, I think it is completely normal and healthy to want to know that people love you, especially your T. It says that you matter, that you are important, that you are loved as a human being.
I like all of the ideas of writing things out. If I were your T, I would say those words to you!