[learning1]

I meant to put the trigger warning on here, not thumbs up. I dunno why odd icons showed up on both my posts today...

This is long and pretty negative about therapy so please don't read it if you think it will discourage you. I respect therapy a lot and I can tell it really helps a lot of people on PC. I strongly believe it could help other people on PC who are struggling to decide about that. So I hope I won't discourage anyone. I'm just not sure therapy can help me for moderate ongoing depression.



Reasons not to continue therapy


I’m afraid I’m using it to avoid loneliness instead of spending time in the real world. I don’t think stopping therapy will inspire me to suddenly improve my social life much. But at least I won’t be dependent on someone I’m paying to pay attention to what’s going on in my life when I could be putting the energy into something in real life.

I have imaginary conversations with whatever t I’m seeing in my head all the time. I read that having these imagined conversations is normal for clients, so I don’t worry about it too much. I know I won’t ever really have a fraction of these conversations with the t because there could never be enough time. I don’t even begin to try. But it seems like there is something wrong with spending so much time even imagining conversations with someone who couldn’t actually have nearly that much interest in your life.

I’ve been to 3 therapists in the past year and a half for 4-6 months each. None of them have really helped noticeably. They said nice things that made me feel good for a few days sometimes, and improved my confidence a little at times. One of them validated a little bit that some things that hurt as a kid shouldn’t have happened. Overall, my depression – wanting to sleep and eat most of the time, and experiencing that people don’t like me much, is about the same. You all online are great- the experience of people not liking me is in closer relationships. At this point, it’s pretty hard to imagine how therapy could make a difference the way I hoped it would. Likely I was hoping for too much.

My current t is male and my age, which feels awkward. I’ve searched the therapists in my area pretty thoroughly and he’s the best fit I could find except for his gender. Even though he's the best fit, I think he will not notice if I stop coming and that he probably does not particularly like me. (I might stop going because he apparently forgot to respond to my email about what happened when I got to my last appointment late and he wasn't there.)


The amount of time therapy takes over years might not be worth it for me- the amount of improvement might not be any different from what could happen without therapy. The time in session is not much, but the time thinking about therapy is.

If I stop, maybe I will get over this hoping that things could be better and accept things the way they are.

Reasons to keep going to therapy
I really admire how some people I meet can express themselves at times. I wish it seemed acceptable to be open about who I really am like that, and I still wish/hope therapy could help with that, even though my experience so far has been that it doesn’t. I also still wish/hope it could help with the depression symptoms I mentioned.

I can afford the copays and the time in session. They are not much to lose for a chance to feel less depressed, no matter if it’s a small chance.

If I don’t go, there’s a chance I’ll keep wondering if it could have helped, kind of living in that imaginary possibility sometimes, instead of really accepting things the way they are and living life the way it really is. This is the strongest reason I feel to keep going.

I’m really disappointed to give up on the time and effort I’ve already spent with not much to show for it. If I have decreased that unrealistic hope that therapy could help me, that is something to show for it, I guess. But it still hurts that I couldn’t make any progress on the other issues like I hoped.

Why did I post this?
Does anyone else struggle over hope of therapy helping you to improve things versus accepting things the way they are? I know most people here are in therapy and it's helping, or else there are good reasons they could be helped (like people who don't remember their childhood, or who experienced abuse). But for other people like me who know they didn't go through a lot of abuse, does it seem like therapy gets in the way of accepting the way things are?

[2or3things]

Hi Learning. You sound a little sad and defeated. Maybe you could use a (((hug)))?

This might sound a little simple, but I guess I think that T is hard/not fun/generally a pain in the butt, but if there's ever a chance of feeling better than you do, there's no reason out there for not taking that chance. Maybe you haven't connected with a T with whom you click, but I think it's SO worth looking if there's hope that you can come out on the other side in better shape. And I know you can!

I say "hang in there." Just my vote, but I wanted you to know I care.

[stopdog]

I have struggled with the can therapy help me or is it making me worse for over a year. Still undecided. Sorry I am not better at giving some sage advice.

[learning1]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I have struggled with the can therapy help me or is it making me worse for over a year. Still undecided. Sorry I am not better at giving some sage advice.

Thank you for posting stopdog. As you know from my posts on your threads, I really think therapy is a good idea for you because the things you're dealing with- not being able to remember your childhood, such extreme feelings after therapy, and the anxiety in your regular life without therapy- all make me think there are some real things that happened with you that are things therapy usually helps with.

[mcl6136]

You're taking stock and I think that's always a positive thing. What about sticking with therapy and getting a different T?

that's what I did. The process has helped me before to the GREATEST extent...I look at therapy as a kind of graduate school of life. However, I think that the match between t and client is of such utmost importance...no evidence that this is the case for anyone but me, but I wonder: how about a female T and a changeup that way?

You seem to be the considerate, thoughtful kind of person who CAN benefit from this process And then, there is the topic of medication.....not suggesting this for YOU, but others here have found that meds and therapy can be a powerful combo...maybe better than each on their own...?

[lastyearisblank]

Learning, this is a wonderful list. Look at you! Just want to point out (and you maybe know what I'm gonna say from our previous interactions) but you're so sensitive, as well as smart. I do think you can benefit from going to therapy..

I am tired a lot too lately and can definitely relate to just wanting to sleep. I just wanted to ask just in case, have you been checked out by a doctor. Medical stuff like anemia, thyroid levels, and vitamin D levels, which can make a difference in the winter months.

Re: having therapy but not being able to make changes... maybe not every T is the right fit.. maybe you could make a goal for yourself.... therapy, with a focus on feeling more empowered? And getting out and doing stuff? (And feeling cheered on and supported in doing stuff!). And I don't think therapy necessarily has to take away from life, it's like reading... my books are a road map to life, even though reading is not doing, but thinking, pondering, and dreaming... this is an important part of life, clarifying what really matters. Maybe therapy is the same way? So I think therapy can help!!!!! (Obviously!)

Take care of you

[stopdog]

Do you know if you are looking for a way to stay doing therapy or a way to quit? For all my ambivalence, questioning, belief in being harmed by it, and so forth, I actually am trying to justify doing it. For me, when I look at the lists I have made, any reasonable person would cut their losses and quit and get on with their life. I desperately want to be able to justify the tiny strand of hope I cannot seem to kill (though not from lack of trying).

[learning1]

I'm not sure if I'm looking for a way to keep doing it or not atm. But I'm really glad you are trying to justify it for yourself . I think wanting to do it is enough of a reason, but I also think the other symptoms you mentioned (that I listed above) are good reasons.

For myself, I guess being upset that t didn't respond about what happened when I was late means I wanted it to work. I wanted him to care whether it works more than he does. But that's just part of the whole thing of wanting therapy to help more than it realistically can help for what I'm dealing with, I think. Knowing most therapists don't/can't be expected to care much about the relatively small issues I'm dealing with just makes it too fake

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by learning1

I

For myself, I guess being upset that t didn't respond about what happened when I was late means I wanted it to work. I wanted him to care whether it works more than he does. But that's just part of the whole thing of wanting therapy to help more than it realistically can help for what I'm dealing with, I think. Knowing most therapists don't/can't be expected to care much about the relatively small issues I'm dealing with just makes it too fake

For what it is worth, I think my issues are small and uninteresting too.

In some ways, I think a therapist can be expected to be even happier with the "relatively small issues" (I am not saying yours ARE small - just using your language) because they might actually be able to do something useful in a reasonable period of time. It is my understanding these t people do like to think they are helpful.

[learning1]

thanks for the support and compliments mcl and lyib. it helps. i have thought about medication and I was probably going to ask t about it if i hadn't been late for this appointment. i'm nervous about long term side effects that they haven't studied yet, since the drugs have only been around for 20 years, but idk, maybe it's worth the risk.

I feel like I have really thoroughly explored my options for therapists in my area. I said I went to 3 therapists, in the past 1 1/2 years, but there were actually 5- two of them very brief. I've thoroughly been through all the lists I could find for options.

[BlessedRhiannon]

Does anyone else struggle over hope of therapy helping you to improve things versus accepting things the way they are? I know most people here are in therapy and it's helping, or else there are good reasons they could be helped (like people who don't remember their childhood, or who experienced abuse). But for other people like me who know they didn't go through a lot of abuse, does it seem like therapy gets in the way of accepting the way things are?

I was struggling with this same thing about a month ago. I started therapy because my anxiety was becoming so severe, and I knew from experience that would lead to depression...which would then lead to sui thoughts...been there, done that, didn't want to do it again.

With my awesome therapists help, I have managed to get the anxiety under control, and have not fallen in to another depression. With those two issues, I realized there were other things I wanted to work on too. But, these are things I've tried to work on with other therapists before with no success. I finally sent my current T a very long email, and just poured out my worries that it would be the same pattern and trying to work through these things wouldn't help. In the next session, we talked about the email I sent. We talked about what is different this time (namely that I'm not extremely anxious or depressed, and that I really feel ready to work on these other things). I asked her outright if she could really help me with these things, if it was at all possible to make the changes I wanted to make. I told her that I had almost no faith that it was possible to make these changes. My T told me that she honestly thought she could help me and that she had full confidence I could make the changes. She suggested I rely on her confidence and faith until I could find some of my own. I trust my T enough that I believe her, so, I've kept going to T. I AM starting to believe that I can make the changes I want...it hasn't happened yet, but I'm starting to feel the tiniest bit hopeful that it will.

So, I guess...I said all that to say, talk to your T about your worries. Ask him if he really, honestly thinks that therapy will help you. Ask him if he feels confident you can make the changes you want. If he does think it will be helpful and he does think you can make the changes, hold on to that until you can believe it yourself.

[learning1]

I'm really glad your therapist was so supportive Rhi.
Unfortunately, I did ask my t if he thought therapy was a good idea for me a while ago. He said he couldn't answer that for me. He asked me if it was helping and I said maybe it takes more time. I had more hope then. But after I thought about it, I realized it's been a long time and it hasn't helped. That's a big part of what led me to where I am now. Later, I told him that I realized has been a long time and it hasn't helped, and I thought I was hoping for too much. Then he said it can help (not me in particular, but in general.) He said he would be more patient. He was very nice and supportive the time after that. That was my last appointment, two weeks ago, before the one yesterday where I was late and he had left.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by learning1

But for other people like me who know they didn't go through a lot of abuse, does it seem like therapy gets in the way of accepting the way things are?

You make it sound so static, "the way things are". I think you need a little hope that you can influence the way things are, especially your perception of them.

It's your perception that others don't like you much? That's a lonely perception which may or may not be true but still, is a perception and perceptions are all from us. Another person can't give us a perception, can't interpret how we see things because it's us doing the seeing.

My husband is the oldest of four brothers. We often go visit his middle brother and sister-in-law. My husband was married before he married me and when he and I visited with this brother and sister-in-law the first Christmas we were together, my sister-in-law gave my husband a single bath, hand towel, and washcloth set in light blue. I didn't get anything even though I had met them before and we were very "together", etc. It felt very awkward, LOL. My husband is very smart and the oldest and did very well for himself in the world, better than his younger brothers and they sort of look up to him but, I guess, maybe don't feel too comfortable with him either, he's "different" from them. I am married to him and like to read. My sister-in-law now gives me best seller books or very intellectual books as gifts. My husband is a "scientist" and I most like to read fantasy or historical romance novels!

I've watched this sister-in-law with our other sister-in-law, the wife of the other brother who has divorced and remarried. She lives on the other coast so we don't see her often but when the three of us are together they seem to gravitate to one another, are good friends with one another and I gather write each other or make weight loss pacts with one another (I'm the only one of the three of us truly obese), etc. They're very comfortable together but neither of them "seeks me out". We get chocolate covered strawberries from this other sister-in-law and brother

Because I'm a stepmother and had a stepmother (and only see my stepsister, 13 years older than I am and her children and grandchildren each Christmas), I am use to feeling awkward and like I don't belong. I was an awkward teenager and life keeps seeming awkward to me.

Do other people not like me or have circumstances made it so I have to try a bit harder to be included, perhaps have a personality that goes well with my husband's but not necessarily with my husband's sons and siblings? I've always been a bit shy/standoffish through fear. . . and here are all these "new" people.

I think therapy helps us see patterns in our behavior and backgrounds that can help us see how responsible/"helpless" we are for how we are treated by others. I don't feel so badly about myself, don't take all the responsibility or feel so left out and disliked when I realize my past situations and how they contribute to what I think and do and perceive now. Now I can push myself forward (if I want) and join in with others, knowing they probably don't dislike me, they just don't know me well and I don't make it easy enough for them to do so with my "regular" reticent behavior?

It's like when I was in therapy and interviewed to work with my husband (yes, I married the boss :-) and my brain wouldn't shut up enough, kept yammering at me such that when a question was asked me, I had to answer it immediately without thought (usually). However, with nearly 10 years of therapy (but only the final 1 or 2 useful) under my belt, I was able to notice that my to-be husband took a lot of time before he had something to say or answered a question. It almost made me anxious for him but then I realized, "If he gives himself that much time, he will let me give myself that much time". It seems so obvious now but what gets me is that I could not have ever realized that without that 8-10 years worth of therapy!

I'd like to say I lived happily every after in the question answering department but, alas, I was only able to give myself time enough to try to quiet myself down to begin to answer the question; never mind thinking of a coherent, good answer! That was still further in the future. But I was able to recall my own name and quiet myself a little so I wasn't quite as anxious and that gave me a little bit of edge with my ability to answer and. . . I got the job right away. Did I mention it was the second time I had sent in my resume and tried for an interview? He'd hired someone else for the job 6+ months earlier; I'd never heard from my first resume but then saw an identical ad in the paper and applied again. That courage too came from therapy I suspect. I was able to realize that I really wanted that job!

It can be very subtle what one gets from therapy but also very surprising. Also very rewarding if one keeps at it.

Your perception of yourself can change. You don't have to settle for less, settle for "the way it is". It can be any way you'd like it to be.

[learning1]

Thanks for your long answer, and for sharing your experiences.

Originally Posted by Perna

It's your perception that others don't like you much? That's a lonely perception which may or may not be true but still, is a perception and perceptions are all from us. Another person can't give us a perception, can't interpret how we see things because it's us doing the seeing.

Actually, I wrote it's my experience that others don't like me much, which is probably a little different than perception. I notice in this part of your post I quoted, and in other posts of yours, you tend to emphasize the detachment between people, such as the ways people are individually responsible rather than the ways people influence each other. Sometimes I think there are two ways to look at the same thing, and there's not really any right answer to the question of whether we are influenced by others or we are responsible for ourselves. Well, at least in some situations there's not an answer I think. Of course we know we're influenced by others, unless we're hermits. But sometimes it's a good idea to take an extremely independent perspective and use a lot of will power to force oneself to try to change one's perception, in spite of what it would naturally be based on how others/environment/history/etc influence us. Other times it's good to acknowledge we are influenced by others and we can't control everything by ourselves (a perception that someone is running at you with a knife, would be an example of that - think I'd rather acknowledge reality and RUN than change my perception on that one ).

I do have a lot of nice colleagues, friends, acquaintances, etc and don't mean to put them down when I say I experience that people don't like me much. I can understand that my current experience has to do with my experience of being bullied through school and not supported through it by my parents very well. My father did care but is quite oblivious socially. My Mom got angry at me. Being treated like I was unacceptable growing up makes it harder to act comfortable around people now, and I know that it makes it harder for people to care about me now. Knowing that helps me figure out insights into what to do about it sometimes. So I think my story has similarities to yours, and many people's, Perna. I'm sorry you went through so many years of therapy that didn't help. That's quite a lot. And it's great that it has ended up being worth it for you now. I don't know how to make therapy useful for me, and I don't know as I can be okay with going back to t if he doesn't respond to me. PC is helpful though
. thank you

[learning1]

Ummm, he emailed me and asked if I want to reschedule. He said sorry too- his usual brief text messaged thing. Now I feel really dumb for being so upset about it, and carrying on so much in these two threads. I really thought he would forget about responding if he didn't do it right away, but it is only one day later, which is a very reasonable amount of time to respond.

I really appreciate everyone's support and attention here. The uncertainty about therapy was strong in my mind before this happened, so I'm kind of glad this motivated me to get feedback about that here. But I'm really glad now I don't feel like I need to stop going immediately due to t ignoring me.

[stopdog]

I am glad you heard from him.

[beautiful.mess]

Originally Posted by learning1

Ummm, he emailed me and asked if I want to reschedule. He said sorry too- his usual brief text messaged thing. Now I feel really dumb for being so upset about it, and carrying on so much in these two threads. I really thought he would forget about responding if he didn't do it right away, but it is only one day later, which is a very reasonable amount of time to respond.

I really appreciate everyone's support and attention here. The uncertainty about therapy was strong in my mind before this happened, so I'm kind of glad this motivated me to get feedback about that here. But I'm really glad now I don't feel like I need to stop going immediately due to t ignoring me.