[Debbie07]

Background: We'll call her Old Therapist, or OT, to differentiate her from Current Therapist, or CT. I saw OT for a few months back in 2004. She dropped me because she didn't think she was helping. I thought she was. She referred me to someone else. Over the next 7 years, I called her back four times. Once to tell her the referral therapist wasn't working and I wanted to go back (after a couple of months), the second after a year or so when I hadn't found a new therapist that worked, in 2009 when my dad died and told her she helped and I still wanted to work with her, and in 2010 when I left her a message that I know she thought she hadn't helped me but she really had and that I was a different person and that I didn't want her to agree to see me, I wanted her to "interview" me and just meet with me once and see if she wanted to work with me (and I really did change after my dad died, I lost 85 lbs and after being obese my whole life I now have done a marathon, half marathon, triathlon, skydived, literally ran across mountaintops, etc). I am a lot more talkative in therapy and a lot more confident and assertive, etc. It's been a complete overhaul. She said no.

I found another therapist.

Back in 2010 after the last time she said no, I saw her at the gym a few times, we never acknowledged each other. Then I roamed around the same gym chain but different gym locations and I didn't see her again. Fast forward to a few months ago. There's a particular gym location I go to more than the others, 7 minutes away from home, and I usually take 20-25 group classes in a week. That's how I lost and maintained the weight loss. She started going to those classes, so I see her three or more times a week for five or more classes a week. One day, she just popped up and never left.

At first I thought I shouldn't acknowledge her because I know she doesn't like me or at least wants nothing to do with me. She ignored me too. But over the last few weeks, she has changed how she ignores me. If we are walking towards each other she will change her route to avoid me. If we happen to pass each other she will literally turn her head away. We've made eye contact unwittingly a few times and have not said a word to each other.

This last bit of turning her head away has finally started to piss me off. Hey, person here. I don't think she's treating me right, and I am tired of pretending she doesn't exist and I don't think she should go out of her way to avoid me. We can just pass each other normally. This has been going on for months.

CT thinks I should say "Hello OT" even if she's not making eye contact with each other to kind of assert myself. She doesn't think a former therapist should be going out of her way to ignore a past client to that degree. OT and I have been alone, just the two of us, in a room together as we set weights up for a class and I have not said a word to her.

So, should I say "Hello OT" next time I pass her even if she's not looking at me? What do I want out of this? I want a gym relationship. Hi, hey, cold outside, killer class, see you Friday, etc. I don't want coffee and donuts and baby showers and let me tell you my favorite places to shop. But I am going out of my way to ignore another human being and I personally don't want to expend all that energy on it anymore. I don't hate her. I still think highly of her. But up to now I only knew her therapy self and not her person self, so to speak, and I feel I've gotten to know her personal side over the past few months and I am disappointed.

CT also says I should say "Hello OT" now and then, not every time, even if she doesn't reply. Kind of a I'm here, I'm not pretending not to know you, and I don't agree with your treatment of me.

I talk to EVERYBODY at the gym. I've met tons of people there, if I see a new person I'll go up to them and strike up a conversation, and I'm very social at the gym. She talks to other people sometimes. So other people are worthy of small talk but I'm not.

So, thoughts? Thanks!

P.S. If it makes a difference, she was seeing me for relationship issues, how to connect better with people, and feelings of rejection and abandonment. CT and I think OT might think that if she opens the door even a tiny bit and just says hi then I won't ever leave her alone and the floodgates will open. I think I have shown self-constraint and deserve an opportunity to show her that will not happen.

And if it makes a difference, I'm 33 and OT is 43, both women.

[roads]

This strikes near home for me--with a former boss, in my case. CT's advice makes sense to me. Whatever OT's reason might be, she's contributing to a strained situation. It's a waste of your energy. So--say, "Hi!" & walk on by. No big deal.

[Flooded]

I would go out of my way to say "hi" letting her know just what a rude cow she is being.

[ECHOES]

What odd and immature behavior on her part! Isn't she just a wiz at relationships. lol

I would say a simple and courteous hello to her to be the better person in my own mind.
And sometimes with folks like her, I might have a neutral but warm smile and hello on the outside, and in my head I would finish it off with more of my true thoughts that continue after the hello "...you may now return to your avoiding." Just for my own fun

I just want to say kudos - I think I would have simply quit the gym to avoid awkwardness! Seriously, though, how rude of her... she should know better, right?! I think your current T has given you decent advice - it would be good to assert yourself and say 'Hello', be the bigger person.

[elliemay]

SOme therapists wait for the client, or ex-client to initiate conversation. I think it is a part of patient privacy or something.

I've seen my therapist out in public and neither one of us acknowledged the other. It was kind of nice. Let me know he was going to carry my "secrets".

If you want to say hello to her, then I think you should, her reaction is her problem, not yours.

[Debbie07]

So far it appears everyone agrees I should say hi. I don't care if anyone knows she was my therapist, I'm not ashamed. And that place gave me a whole new life, I'm not going anywhere! And I love the classes at that particular location. She goes to one of my most favorite classes of the week, there's no one that could make me skip that class.

See, at the beginning I ignored her because I didn't want to force myself on her. So I don't know if she reacted to that and I reacted to her reacting and then she... and so on and so forth. But this is stupid. We should not be pretending we don't exist.

And there's a huge difference between ignoring and avoiding. She's avoiding, I'm ignoring. Turning the head when passing each other is just totally unnecessary.

[geez]

This could be my story about saying hi to an OT :-) Thanks so much for posting. Let us know when you say hi and how it goes!

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Debbie07

Background: We'll call her Old Therapist, or OT, to differentiate her from Current Therapist, or CT. I saw OT for a few months back in 2004. She dropped me because she didn't think she was helping. I thought she was. She referred me to someone else. Over the next 7 years, I called her back four times. Once to tell her the referral therapist wasn't working and I wanted to go back (after a couple of months), the second after a year or so when I hadn't found a new therapist that worked, in 2009 when my dad died and told her she helped and I still wanted to work with her, and in 2010 when I left her a message that I know she thought she hadn't helped me but she really had and that I was a different person and that I didn't want her to agree to see me, I wanted her to "interview" me and just meet with me once and see if she wanted to work with me (and I really did change after my dad died, I lost 85 lbs and after being obese my whole life I now have done a marathon, half marathon, triathlon, skydived, literally ran across mountaintops, etc). I am a lot more talkative in therapy and a lot more confident and assertive, etc. It's been a complete overhaul. She said no.

I found another therapist.

Back in 2010 after the last time she said no, I saw her at the gym a few times, we never acknowledged each other. Then I roamed around the same gym chain but different gym locations and I didn't see her again. Fast forward to a few months ago. There's a particular gym location I go to more than the others, 7 minutes away from home, and I usually take 20-25 group classes in a week. That's how I lost and maintained the weight loss. She started going to those classes, so I see her three or more times a week for five or more classes a week. One day, she just popped up and never left.

At first I thought I shouldn't acknowledge her because I know she doesn't like me or at least wants nothing to do with me. She ignored me too. But over the last few weeks, she has changed how she ignores me. If we are walking towards each other she will change her route to avoid me. If we happen to pass each other she will literally turn her head away. We've made eye contact unwittingly a few times and have not said a word to each other.

This last bit of turning her head away has finally started to piss me off. Hey, person here. I don't think she's treating me right, and I am tired of pretending she doesn't exist and I don't think she should go out of her way to avoid me. We can just pass each other normally. This has been going on for months.

CT thinks I should say "Hello OT" even if she's not making eye contact with each other to kind of assert myself. She doesn't think a former therapist should be going out of her way to ignore a past client to that degree. OT and I have been alone, just the two of us, in a room together as we set weights up for a class and I have not said a word to her.

So, should I say "Hello OT" next time I pass her even if she's not looking at me? What do I want out of this? I want a gym relationship. Hi, hey, cold outside, killer class, see you Friday, etc. I don't want coffee and donuts and baby showers and let me tell you my favorite places to shop. But I am going out of my way to ignore another human being and I personally don't want to expend all that energy on it anymore. I don't hate her. I still think highly of her. But up to now I only knew her therapy self and not her person self, so to speak, and I feel I've gotten to know her personal side over the past few months and I am disappointed.

CT also says I should say "Hello OT" now and then, not every time, even if she doesn't reply. Kind of a I'm here, I'm not pretending not to know you, and I don't agree with your treatment of me.

I talk to EVERYBODY at the gym. I've met tons of people there, if I see a new person I'll go up to them and strike up a conversation, and I'm very social at the gym. She talks to other people sometimes. So other people are worthy of small talk but I'm not.

So, thoughts? Thanks!

P.S. If it makes a difference, she was seeing me for relationship issues, how to connect better with people, and feelings of rejection and abandonment. CT and I think OT might think that if she opens the door even a tiny bit and just says hi then I won't ever leave her alone and the floodgates will open. I think I have shown self-constraint and deserve an opportunity to show her that will not happen.

And if it makes a difference, I'm 33 and OT is 43, both women.

Ok only you can decide whether to talk with this ex therapist or not.

that said

from a therapists point of view -

around here where I live and work we have rules that prevent ex therapists from making contact with ex clients. if you were here and I was that therapist I would have no choice but to do the same - turn my head/ body away from you, prevent any eye contact, looks, bodily contact, and veer to a different path so that anything I do does not alert other people that may be around from knowing I know the client or ex client. its called protecting the client / ex clients confidentiality.

the only way in which I would be able to make eye contact, pass a client / ex clients path or otherwise acknowledge the client / ex client is if I have permission from the client / ex client stating I may do so.

from a clients point of view -

I am glad that therapists have a code of conduct that they must adhere to. there have been some therapists and other treatment providers and situations in which I would not have wanted the general public ie my coworkers at work, the supermarket employees, the public transit drivers, strangers milling around... know I have seen or are seeing a therapist for the reasons that I do.

when I do make that extra special connection with a treatment provider I let them know should our paths cross it is ok to acknowledge me in public, stop to chat with me in public... this way they know they will not be overstepping my rights to confidentiality and their responsibilities of upholding my rights to confidentialities.

The USA have strict laws and punishments for treatment providers should they not adhere to a clients /ex clients rights to confidentialities. Some treatment providers have required I sign a contract or release form, releasing them from having to uphold my rights to confidentiality, so that they may make eye contact, talk with me and acknowledge me in public situations.

I wouldnt be surprised if this therapist is just trying to do her job and adhere to her jobs and locations rules about upholding your rights to confidentiality.

my suggestion if you would like to forgo (omit or go without) your rights to confidentiality in this kind of situation, write this therapist a letter stating it is ok to make eye contact with you, it is ok to recognize you in public and any other rights to confidentiality you would like to forgo. sign and date it, then make a copy of it (so that both you and this therapist have a copy of it for future reference and possible problems that may arise) then mail it to her at her place of work.

once she receives the letter it will go in her filing system where she keeps your file, and she will know its ok with you and it will release her from any further responsibility to upholding your confidentiality should your two paths cross again in public.

[PreacherHeckler]

"around here where I live and work we have rules that prevent ex therapists from making contact with ex clients. if you were here and I was that therapist I would have no choice but to do the same - turn my head/ body away from you, prevent any eye contact, looks, bodily contact, and veer to a different path so that anything I do does not alert other people that may be around from knowing I know the client or ex client. its called protecting the client / ex clients confidentiality.

the only way in which I would be able to make eye contact, pass a client / ex clients path or otherwise acknowledge the client / ex client is if I have permission from the client / ex client stating I may do so."

Wow, how bizarre. Sounds like "Extreme Avoidance: Therapist Edition." Did anyone ever stop to think that such an odd and extreme behavior could actually draw more attention to the situation instead of protecting the client? Where I live in the US a therapist is expected to behave as he would when passing any stranger -- he does not have to veer to a different path to avoid passing me or go to such extremes to pretend he does not know me. It's pretty simple. He treats me as he would any other stranger unless I acknowledge him first. That protects my confidentiality and allows me to choose when I want to say hi and when I'd rather not, depending on who is with me or where I am at the time.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by PreacherHeckler

"around here where I live and work we have rules that prevent ex therapists from making contact with ex clients. if you were here and I was that therapist I would have no choice but to do the same - turn my head/ body away from you, prevent any eye contact, looks, bodily contact, and veer to a different path so that anything I do does not alert other people that may be around from knowing I know the client or ex client. its called protecting the client / ex clients confidentiality.

the only way in which I would be able to make eye contact, pass a client / ex clients path or otherwise acknowledge the client / ex client is if I have permission from the client / ex client stating I may do so."

Wow, how bizarre. Sounds like "Extreme Avoidance: Therapist Edition." Did anyone ever stop to think that such an odd and extreme behavior could actually draw more attention to the situation instead of protecting the client? Where I live in the US a therapist is expected to behave as he would when passing any stranger -- he does not have to veer to a different path to avoid passing me or go to such extremes to pretend he does not know me. It's pretty simple. He treats me as he would any other stranger unless I acknowledge him first. That protects my confidentiality and allows me to choose when I want to say hi and when I'd rather not, depending on who is with me or where I am at the time.

when you are out and about watch the behavior of those around you.. it is normal human behavior to look to the sides or looking down, and move to the right or left when passing other people. doing that here is called "veering to the left or right / going in another direction"

it is also normal human behavior to notice / see something that is not directly in front of you and move in that direction as if, or so that you can get a better look at that which has drawn your attention.

Around here strangers do not notice when someone has changed direction while walking / driving or doing daily living.

another way to look at this is pay attention to your own habits when out and about, do you make eye contact with all that you pass, or meet up with or does your natural gaze look and see things that are in front of you, to the right of you, to the left of you or do you walk watching the ground pass under your feet or a combo of all of the above.

when I walk I look forwards, to the right and to the left noticing whats going on *all* around me, Sometimes I even turn around to see whats going on behind me.

around here its completely normal to take notice of things to the left, right , behind as well as forward, and turn aside, go other directions than remaining going straight ahead all the time.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by PreacherHeckler

"around here where I live and work we have rules that prevent ex therapists from making contact with ex clients. if you were here and I was that therapist I would have no choice but to do the same - turn my head/ body away from you, prevent any eye contact, looks, bodily contact, and veer to a different path so that anything I do does not alert other people that may be around from knowing I know the client or ex client. its called protecting the client / ex clients confidentiality.

Wow, how bizarre. Sounds like "Extreme Avoidance: Therapist Edition." Did anyone ever stop to think that such an odd and extreme behavior could actually draw more attention to the situation instead of protecting the client? .

Well said, PreacherHeckler. If I saw someone walking down the street, turning their head and body away from another person, making awkward movements to avoid eye contact, and verring to a different path at all costs, my first thought be "Geez, I wonder what their relationship is? They obviously know each other! Strangers don't act like that! Are they ex-lovers? Ex-friends? I wonder what horrible thing Person 2 did to make Person 1 so blatantly rude? Ooh maybe Person 2 slept with Person 1's spouse!" It would probably make me avoid both people, lest I end up in a similar situation with one of them!

Thankfully, my T wouldn't behave that way if she saw me in public. If she did, it would probably hurt my feelings. It would make me feel like running into me was the worst thing that could possibly happen to her-- why else would she turn her head and body away from me like a crazy person and change her path just to avoid me?

With my T, also in the US, the rule is that it's up to me whether or not I choose to acknowledge her- otherwise, she'll simply go on her merry way. I've told her though that if she sees me in public, she's always welcome to say hi first. The people in my life know I'm in therapy, so there's no confidentiality to protect. If we saw each other in public, I presume we would smile, say hello, and then continue on our separate ways. One thing I always appreciate about my T is that while she is very professional, she is also sensible- she uses her best judgment when it comes to things like hugs in therapy, phone calls/texts, or acknowledging a client at Starbucks.

[Debbie07]

I also thought it was a rule that a therapist can't say hi to a client first. But CT said they just can't say HOW they know you. But I had an aha moment about an hour ago (I work nights). I'm giving OT a lot of power over me. No more. She's getting a nice firm hello next time. Heck, maybe even a How are you. And trust me, there's protecting a client and then there's what she's doing. And if it's me giving off the mixed signals, then I'm about to fix that. And by using her first name in the hello I'm explicitely giving her permission to use mine.

[ECHOES]

Would be fun to call out to her from across the room and wave wildly "Hi, (name) !! Good to see you again! "

[Debbie07]

Oh, don't get me started on the fantasies lol. They've veered lately to using some non-polite words and illustrative hand gestures as I call out her behavior. That's why I've been mulling over what to do, because it's just going to fester inside if I don't. But that would be fun, along with "Name, it's me, Debbie!! Fancy meeting you here! It has been a long time!"

Other times I muse how each of us have a failure from their past sitting in the same room. She failed to help me and I failed to be able to accept her help. But I just view it as she was unable to present her help in a way I could take it and I was not in a place where I could accept that help. Nobody's "fault.". But she's one of my biggest regrets in life. She's the only therapist ever to dump me, I've dumped the other forty or so therapists. But it took my dad dying and my whole being being destroyed so to speak for me to start building myself back up. So current therapist is working partly because she's great and partly because I've made changes to make it work.

Debbie07, please do let us know what she does when you say Hi!

[Debbie07]

I chickened out I'm terrified to do it.

Originally Posted by Debbie07

I chickened out I'm terrified to do it.

Oh, Debbie07, I'm so sorry. I wish I could go with you in real life and stand behind you and whisper moral support.

[Debbie07]

That's ok, these are the things that make you grow, and the harder something is to do, the more rewarding

So right after I wrote that I went and did it. I only managed a "good morning" and to my surprise I got a pleasant-sounding "hi."

Next time maybe I'll manage a "Hi Name" and one day if I'm particularly adventurous "Hi Name How are you?"

Go Debbie, it's your birthday.

It does feel particularly empowering. And a HUGE part of why I wanted to do this is because I don't know if *I* sent out mixed signals at the beginning. CT told me I probably gave friendly vibes from the beginning since I tend to be friendly to everyone but I told her no, I was probably giving deer-in-the-headlights/want-to-run-the-other-way vibes. I don't know why I freeze up inside when I see OT. But I think today's hello made a difference and I can be a little more relaxed in the same room now (admittedly, that's my problem and issue, not hers... but I was going out of my way to treat her WORSE (pretending she didn't exist) than everyone else and it's just not who I want to be, but I was going by a maybe misguided feeling that she could barely stand to be in the same room as me).

Well done!

Good for you!!

[Debbie07]

How appropriate is this as a follow up tomorrow or whenever I see her alone again?

"Hi, Name, Debbie here, we see each other at the gym all the time. How are you?"

And then after a good, great, how about you, great also, walk away (if she doesn't say anything else).

[JustWannaDisappear]

My first therapist told me if she were to see me in public she would not acknowledge me unless I went up to her first. I thought it was really strict but those were her rules.

The gym I use to go to, my old GP went there. She would look at me but always avoided me as well. It got to the point where I was very uncomfortable and avoided the gym on the days/times I knew she went. I also breathed a sigh of relief when that gym closed their daycare and I was pretty much forced to go somewhere else.

I guess I'd say Hi to her and see what happens.

[roads]

Originally Posted by Debbie07

Go Debbie, it's your birthday.

You go girl!
What a thing you did.
Major congratulations!

[Debbie07]

Thanks Any opinions on the question three posts up?