Silence..message from T

unaluna · Dec 08, 2011, 09:57 AM

Not to go all negative on people, but answer the OP's question - therapeutically. Does he love me? Don't answer yes or no, or give the reasons she's not doing therapy "right" - we have done that a million times in the Romantic feelings forum, and this "logic" never works. Does he l0ve me - what would that mean for you, what difference would that make in your life? I like to look at therapy as finally being able to "play house" - I never could when I was a kid - I could NOT understand the rules! The moms I was closest to were all mean and yelling, the dads had belts - how was this a fun game? (School - I could play school, but the other kids quickly tired of it!) So me & T kinda play house - and you're right, elliemay, it DOES allow me to imagine now how great it would be to have this IRL. T's DO have some feelings for us, and these must be talked about in session also. But just because a person has feelings, doesn't mean they will act on them, or that it's anything more than a fleeting, temporary emotion. Feelings are not facts (as someone here said, that's the T's mantra!). Masimo, kudos to you for "not beating around the bush", as you put it, and asking your question directly; that was very hard and very brave. I hope some of the thoughts here help. You are truly not alone in this.

roads · Dec 08, 2011, 10:15 AM

MASIMO,
I owe you--& EVERYONE HERE--an apology.

I way over-reacted. I had no right telling you to not feel your feelings. Thank you, hankster & elliemay, for jumping in so quickly.

What you're feeling is very much part of the process & part of the healing. I hope you will bring it up & talk it thru with your T when the time is right. You do have a precious gift here: the knowledge that you're lovable! You are.

Can you forgive me? In my defense I will say that when I'm dumb I make a real effort to outdo all dumbness seen anywhere for the month.

Roadrunner

unaluna · Dec 08, 2011, 11:19 AM

Roadrunner, IMO, no apologies needed, you said a LOT of great stuff in your earlier (both!) post. I just felt like MY earlier post was being perceived as negative in tone, which was not how I intended it. I was just saying, follow your thoughts out. And you did the same thing, in a way - will there be a love nest? If that is the fantasy, it needs to be brought into the open and discussed. MY fantasy is T telling me and his dogs to get into the car on Saturday afternoon - "Get into the car, girls!" What is THAT about??!! And don't tell me THAT'S not a fantasy worth risking his license for!

pbutton · Dec 08, 2011, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankster

MY fantasy is T telling me and his dogs to get into the car on Saturday afternoon - "Get into the car, girls!" What is THAT about??!! And don't tell me THAT'S not a fantasy worth risking his license for!

I love this!

That's great.

mcl6136 · Dec 08, 2011, 01:41 PM

I also love this. I also love the fact that you understand that this is a fantasy.

MASIMO · Dec 08, 2011, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elliemay

Whoa here folks! I gotta say, I think the way you are feeling about your therapist is completely normal, healthy and a natural extension of being treated kindly, with respect and attention.

I see absolutely no reason for you to beat yourself up over it. I mean, if one is subject to abuse, the fact that you still crave and desire love - and can recognize at least the basics of what constitutes love - is a celebration of the human spirit and its innate, and indomitable willingness to connect. Yes, beautiful, this is how I feel. At least I still have the capacity to love and I have totally not lost myself.

I say, enjoy how *you* feel about your therapist. I soooo do, hmmmm.

The pain from this is going to come when you realize (and you will and it's okay) that your therapist, if he cares for you at all, will celebrate this feeling with you, but cannot return it the way you want. Yes, This is so true, I love the idea that he can celebrate "our" love even though it will never be what I wish it could be IRL.
It has nothing to do with you, it has nothing to do with whether you deserve his love or not, but rather it has everything to do with your *long term happiness*.

If you can allow yourself to feel love for your therapist, then I'm sure you can imagine how *amazing* it would feel if love *can* and *will* be reciprocated. I hope to find this love someday, I can only imagine what it would feel like. I look forward to it.

It's important to understand that your therapist's experience of therapy is entirely different from yours. You share, he doesn't. You experience intimacy with him, but he only, and rightly, participates in your intimacy. It does not flow in both directions. Well actually, my T shares a fair amount of intimacy about himself. I feel like I know the real man. Not just the personna I see in therapy. It is what makes him human in my eyes, not unprofessional.

I think it is very easy for people to say "OH NO, don't feel this, don't expect this, don't....." However, you feel the way you feel, and it's okay.

This therapeutic relationship has limits, but imagine what a relationship that *doesn't* have these limits would feel like!

Oh dont tempt me....I would like to experience it, just once!

This is my story and I'm sticking with it. I love my T. My T loves me.
We are involved in a Therapeutic relationship, but we are also involved in an emotionally intimate relationship. These feelings sometimes complicates and intensifies things for both of us. However, we are both committed to continuing it. I'm not going to try to define it as it is totally unique to any other relationship. I'm not going to peg it in a hole.
The way he looks at me , the warmth of his hugs, his commitment to me, his attempt to protect me, the way I respond to him, his presence, his energy. It is love. Let it be.

skysblue · Dec 08, 2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MASIMO

This is my story and I'm sticking with it. I love my T. My T loves me.
We are involved in a Therapeutic relationship, but we are also involved in an emotionally intimate relationship. These feelings sometimes complicates and intensifies things for both of us. However, we are both committed to continuing it. I'm not going to try to define it as it is totally unique to any other relationship. I'm not going to peg it in a hole.
The way he looks at me , the warmth of his hugs, his commitment to me, his attempt to protect me, the way I respond to him, his presence, his energy. It is love. Let it be.

I honor your feelings and I'm happy that you feel this love. My questions to you aren't about challenging that but only a point of curiosity. What do you know about your T besides how he treats you in session? Does he share his dreams and hopes with you? Does he tell you his life history? Does he allow his less than positive emotions be seen? Do you know what his struggles are? Do you discuss the mundane - like ' how to choose a destination for vacation' or 'what are the favorite movies of each of you'? Do you know if he walks fast or slowly? Does he prefer coffee or tea? Is his house neat or messy? Is he interested in politics - do you share the same political persuasion? Is he athletic and swims a mile daily or is he a couch potato? What about religious or spiritual leanings? Do you know his? How does he manage his own frustrations? Does he like to be out in nature or does he prefer video games? And on and on...

Of course, none of that information is necessary to have when the relationship remains in the therapy office and what he provides for you there is awesome. I'm happy for you.

unaluna · Dec 08, 2011, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcl6136

I also love this. I also love the fact that you understand that this is a fantasy.

thanks. we (T & I) got into what it meant today. not much! as in, I sure don't expect to get very much, do I? treated like a pet. no input into family decisions, let alone being informed about them ahead of time. Just - get into the car, we're leaving! Sky, maybe you've hit on something - maybe my fantasy and Masimo's are more alike than different. We just want a safe place? Well, too safe is no fun, and not adult. Not even human, by me!

MASIMO · Dec 08, 2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skysblue

I honor your feelings and I'm happy that you feel this love. My questions to you aren't about challenging that but only a point of curiosity. What do you know about your T besides how he treats you in session? Does he share his dreams and hopes with you? Does he tell you his life history? Does he allow his less than positive emotions be seen? Do you know what his struggles are? Do you discuss the mundane - like ' how to choose a destination for vacation' or 'what are the favorite movies of each of you'? Do you know if he walks fast or slowly? Does he prefer coffee or tea? Is his house neat or messy? Is he interested in politics - do you share the same political persuasion? Is he athletic and swims a mile daily or is he a couch potato? What about religious or spiritual leanings? Do you know his? How does he manage his own frustrations? Does he like to be out in nature or does he prefer video games? And on and on...

Of course, none of that information is necessary to have when the relationship remains in the therapy office and what he provides for you there is awesome. I'm happy for you.

I can say I know the answers to all of these
questions and more. I love the man, who he really is, not the therapist.

CantExplain · Dec 08, 2011, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MASIMO

I can say I know the answers to all of these
questions and more. I love the man, who he really is, not the therapist.

I'm surprised at this. My T specialises in not telling me things and not answering my questions.

skysblue · Dec 08, 2011, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MASIMO

I can say I know the answers to all of these
questions and more. I love the man, who he really is, not the therapist.

Very interesting. That means you spend quite a bit of time in session talking about your T's life? Do you still have to pay for that?

BonnieJean · Dec 08, 2011, 10:01 PM

I started looking up therapy love after reading this thread. This pdoc's blog had a helpful section for me http://feelingupindowntimes.wordpres...-therapy-love/
The reader comments helped me, too.

beautiful.mess · Dec 08, 2011, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I'm surprised at this. My T specialises in not telling me things and not answering my questions.

LOL, I found this amusing because my T is the same way. Seriously, all I know about him is that he drinks coffee....and uh, wears socks? I don't think he, no matter how "close we get" in therapy, will ever disclose anything remotely related to anything.

MASIMO · Dec 09, 2011, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skysblue

Very interesting. That means you spend quite a bit of time in session talking about your T's life? Do you still have to pay for that?

I was waiting for this question. Legitimate. He does self disclose, perhaps more than some would be happy with. However, it usually relates to me in a way that pertains to my life, often discussing commonalities and similar struggles by him or past patients. If he gets off track, I say, "and this pertains to me how?" I accept him for who he is, his style personally and professionally. We have been together for almost 5 years now. Knowing him as a person helps me to understand where he is coming from when he advises me. The approach he takes, the angle he plays. He is not a blank slate that puts on a Therapist's cap and becomes someone different in session. None of us are a blank slate nor should we be. Exuding a presence of being unapproachable, impermeable, making a client feel so afraid that if you stepped over the mark, you would be sent assunder. Dont get me wrong, My therapist has his personal boundaries, He has had to ask me to respect them at times. Our relationship somehow works. It's a balance that is always evolving.

MASIMO · Dec 09, 2011, 09:41 AM

OK, I am backtracking to the beginning of this thread.
I'm working on another week of silence. I dont know why.
I have not contacted T since Tuesday. I'm going away to
visit family this weekend, I'm busy. Feeling much better and
more energy. Been tempted to contact him but for no particular
reason just because I want to be close to him. So if I can hold
out until after the weekend, I see him Tuesday. Another week of
silence. What is this? Is he enjoying this reprive or is he worried
about me? He was worried when I left him as I was so exhausted and sick. Perhaps he just thinks I'm resting. He said before he feels me
with him, hears my emotional humming. I am carrying this with me and I'm going to try real hard to not contact him. Silence is a good thing.

CantExplain · Dec 09, 2011, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MASIMO

I was waiting for this question. Legitimate. He does self disclose, perhaps more than some would be happy with. However, it usually relates to me in a way that pertains to my life, often discussing commonalities and similar struggles by him or past patients.

SPECULATION
When the patient has particular difficulty with trust, the therapist will disclose more in order to win that trust.

Is that how it was with you?

unaluna · Dec 09, 2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CantExplain

SPECULATION
When the patient has particular difficulty with trust, the therapist will disclose more in order to win that trust.

Is that how it was with you?

I would vote yes. Yes. YES. A thousand times yes. I could tell anyone the details of any story, and even trust them with my life (hence the exes), but REALLY trust them, as in respect their opinion trust? Respect their personhood trust? I need to see the feet of clay.

Dec 09, 2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonnieJean

I started looking up therapy love after reading this thread. This pdoc's blog had a helpful section for me http://feelingupindowntimes.wordpres...-therapy-love/
The reader comments helped me, too.

Thanks so much for this link - it explains so much!! "Therapy love" is a great way to think of it. The article and the comments, as you said, have given me a lot to ponder. Especially this:

Quote:

"But if your heart is broken knowing your therapist does not love you the way you had hoped, is it possible you are beginning to learn that what you really want is a love that is reciprocated? Painful, scary as it may be, keep talking about what this means about you and love, not just you and loving your therapist, but you and love. In the great big world outside (but mirrored in) the therapy world. "

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