[sittingatwatersedge]

The road to discovering what you really need from your therapist begins by exploring the intensity of your reactions when you don't get what you ask for from your therapist.

So......... I asked my T for something that I thought might make me feel safer, so I could maybe get into deeper issues, & was told hey this was easy to take care of, we'd do that next time for sure.

When next time came nothing had changed and it was obvious that T hadn't even thought about it in the interval (Read: hadn't even thought about me in the interval. Because if the thought of me had crossed her mind just once, surely my predominant safety issues would have been the first thing to come up).

My reaction when I found that this was the way it was? OH, please don't bother about that, T, it's nothing. Really. Honest. Please, just forget about it. (internally: again, that is).

[granite1]

I'm sorry SAWE.i wonder if she is waiting for you to ask again for what you need.i would for sure feel like i was unimportant.do you think you could bring this up with her at all.she may have just forgotten .sending hugs

Sometimes our T's just need to be reminded. Resist the default reaction to assume you weren't important.

[PreacherHeckler]

SAWE, I know how insignificant it makes you feel when it looks like your T has completely forgotten about you, but I don't think that's what happened. I used to have very intense reactions to being told no when I asked my T for something, and I also reacted very strongly when I was certain he had forgotten about me because he didn't do something we had previously agreed upon. This is one of those times when my T would have asked me, "Are you sure I didn't think about you at all? Can you think of any other possibilities?" And then we would have come up with a list of several other possibilities that had never occurred to me because I was so certain he had forgotten about me between sessions. Eventually, after going through this process many times, and realizing it had nothing to do with him forgetting about me, I could ask myself the same questions he asked me. This skill has been very helpful to me in real life when someone doesn't respond to an email or doesn't return a phone call, etc. Instead of immediately jumping to my default conclusion, which inevitably led to feelings of worthlessness that further increased my tendency to isolate myself, now I can see other possibilities and my relationships are much more stable.

[sittingatwatersedge]

>>> This is one of those times when my T would have asked me, "Are you sure I didn't think about you at all? Can you think of any other possibilities?" And then we would have come up with a list of several other possibilities that had never occurred to me because I was so certain he had forgotten about me between sessions.

Thanks, and I agree with what you're saying, but when I found that nothing had been changed I said something like, "...um... we were going to... ?" and T jumped up and said, oh that's right, I forgot.

So exploring possible other explanations was sort of out.

The quote above says, The road to discovering what you really need from your therapist begins by exploring the intensity of your reactions when you don't get what you ask for from your therapist.
and that's what I guess I need to talk to her about now. Not that she forgot - anyone can forget, I surely forget things - but how this particular forgetting comes across to me, and (ulp) why it does.

is that right? it won't be easy for me.

[PreacherHeckler]

Yes, I understand how hard it is but you need to talk to her about how it comes across to you and why it does. Also keep in mind that forgetting to do something is not the same as forgetting YOU. My T helped me understand that concept by asking if I ever forgot to do something my kids asked me to do. Of course I've forgotten -- so then he asked me if it meant that I forgot about THEM. That's when I realized there was a huge difference between forgetting a task and forgetting the person I was going to do it for.

Originally Posted by PreacherHeckler

Also keep in mind that forgetting to do something is not the same as forgetting YOU.

I agree with this.

Also, how old is your T? Sometimes you have to make concessions for age, lol (my dad is alwaaaays forgetting things, and that's his excuse!)

I understand though, it was something important to you and you wanted it to be important to your T too.

[PreacherHeckler]

Originally Posted by just_some_girl

Also, how old is your T? Sometimes you have to make concessions for age, lol (my dad is alwaaaays forgetting things, and that's his excuse!)

LOL Yes, although I prefer to think about it less as an "old age" thing, and more like the memory in a computer -- my brain can only store a certain amount and the older I get, the more information there is to be sorted and stored; therefore some things need to be deleted and I sometimes delete the wrong files accidentally!

[WikidPissah]

ugh SAWE, this is a painful one for me as well. My T has said he likes when I email between sessions, but he almost ALWAYS forgets my email. He doesn't print it out and put it in my file. He doesn't take notes, ever, so week to week he forgets what we discussed last and forgets when he says that we are "Going to do that next week". I have come to the conclusion that I am either going to simply remind him or drive myself insane with feelings of insignificance. This isn't working out well though. I hate feeling like I am just a number, sometimes I wonder if he even remembers my name. sigh.

I think if we've not been "held" securely enough in the past and have felt let down many times, then that wound is going to be bigger than for others who have not expereinced being let down. The question could be reframed as "in what ways did I feel let down in the past"? Perhaps? As a way of helping you understand?

Perhaps you are ready to face that questioning now and actually unconsciously challenged T to forget so you could "fix" this?? Dunno, just letting me fingers hit the ole keyboard wondering.

[unaluna]

I think I know this feeling. It's a kind of shame for asking for something. It's from the past - THEM forgetting was their way of hoping to "get away with" not having to fulfill their promise to us. That's why the forgetting is so important - does it mean T REALLY didn't want to do it? Were you supposed to say, oh, that's OKAY, never mind! How many times did you have to say that in the past? That's why it's SO BIG here and now, even though, rationally, you understand?

I think a lot of it is at an unconscious level. No "sorry that's ok" moments,. More a repressing of rage/anger. Like biting an empty breast.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by hankster

I think I know this feeling. It's a kind of shame for asking for something. ..........That's why the forgetting is so important - does it mean T REALLY didn't want to do it? Were you supposed to say, oh, that's OKAY, never mind! How many times did you have to say that in the past? That's why it's SO BIG here and now...............

this is pretty much the conclusion I came to. You don't suppose (gasp) I interpreted it correctly? T2 is still pretty new, she'll probably be OK hearing it, but I bet T1 would have fainted.

[Chopin99]

I know it's hard. It would hurt me too, but you have to remember T's are human. They make mistakes. They forget. Most probably feel bad about forgetting.

As a group home program director, I work with the same 13 clients everyday. There are things I forget, too. I feel bad when I forget something; knowing I've let someone down.

As to your reaction, I think Hankster is right. That is my background; someone conveniently "forgets" so they don't have to do something, so there must have been something wrong with my asking. I can assure you, that is not the case with my clients. Now if I decided not to do something because I feel it is not in a client's best interest, I would tell them why I'm not doing it (at least to the point that they can understand; my clients have differing levels of intellectual/developmental disabilities).

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

You don't suppose (gasp) I interpreted it correctly?

I think you interpreted it (uh-oh!) transferentially.
PAST: Parent forgot and didn't care, didn't follow through on promise. You suffered.
PRESENT: T forgets, BUT DOES care, and DOES follow through on promise. Now - your first impulse is to react to T's forgetting and to suffer, **, but then can you accept T's caring and the actual act? And also "process" some feelings at **! Easy-peasy, right? Not! (And we think T's "just sit there"! :grin) But yeah, your interpretation was correct - you keyed in on the forgetting being the issue, on what was causing you pain, on what was special to you in an odd way, on what stuck out.
But it's the what forgetting MEANS, not just getting the other person not to forget anymore.

I ONCE complained to my 2nd husband that one of the reasons I divorced my 1st husband was because he wouldn't go to foreign films with me (while yes I went to every new Clint Eastwood movie with him!). So husband No2 dragged me to every French film in a 40-mile radius. But that doesn't fix the basic problem, right?

[sittingatwatersedge]

it's not what the forgetting means - sometimes a cigar is just a cigar y'know... who said that, George Burns? it's the whole thing about asking.
the "Oh No T, Forget It, No Problem, Pardon Me For Asking" thing.

gee, a gen you wine insight. well, miracles do happen!

[critterlady]

I don't think I've ever asked my Ts for anything.

I just wish for things and they're supposed to read my mind. Yeah, there's more than 1 reason I'm in therapy...

[tohelpafriend]

Originally Posted by critterlady

I don't think I've ever asked my Ts for anything.

I just wish for things and they're supposed to read my mind. Yeah, there's more than 1 reason I'm in therapy...

I first asked my T to help expediate my getting an official copy of my medical/psychotherapy record with all notes so I can try to cope with what happened in med reactions with my cardiologist. She forgot the first time; second time I asked again, she said, "you came in here, all assertive , asking for your record"; yeah, like it was a joke to her. Then last week the lid blew off, I asked again for it in the office setting, not her office and she didn't know where to get the release form, got all defensive and said she felt attacked. I think she was afraid I'd find out what she really "notated" about me, and that's not paranoia. It was a dramatic wake up call in my progress toward asking for needs to be met and dealing with resistance and controlling persons with their control/power issues. She had set up a comfortable "balance of power" between us and my assertiveness was not something she wanted to deal with. I liked her, sadly. But she changed. She was a heavy set woman and really had a very official sense of what psychology was all about. Went in to sign the form today; they treated me like a third grader to "help" me fill it out...what a bunch of control freak women social workers, one psychologist, sucking the life blood out of our healing identities and sucking out their livings as well. I'm done. Zut alors, done....as I feel I need help or support I shall find a T in a private setting...writing a complaint ltr. to dept. of public health for violation of my contract in dropping meds. What a revelation in how bad people can really treat others....i have no hope in them anymore. I know where my hope is. Forgive me if I rambled or if this is out of context, but I'm still off meds, waiting to see my cardiologist for clearance, but the veil has lifted; people do exploit people...it's just in them to do it. Taking back control...taking back my power...don't give it to anyone, especially if you've been abused in life by evil in your family or relationships. You are you. Beautiful and perfect. Become that.
I'm trying...it can be a lonely journey, but no one else can do it for me.

In therapy a cigar just being a cigar affords us nothing, its knowing what that cigar meant to us at deeper levels is where the learning is.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

The quote above says, The road to discovering what you really need from your therapist begins by exploring the intensity of your reactions when you don't get what you ask for from your therapist.
and that's what I guess I need to talk to her about now. Not that she forgot - anyone can forget, I surely forget things - but how this particular forgetting comes across to me, and (ulp) why it does.

is that right? it won't be easy for me.

no, it won't be, but you are still BRAVE, braver than me who can never imagine causing any sort of conflict with my T, or ask for any *needs* be met. i'd rather go to the gyno!

Originally Posted by earthmamma

I think a lot of it is at an unconscious level. No "sorry that's ok" moments,. More a repressing of rage/anger. Like biting an empty breast.

hahahaha!! what an image that created for me.

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

it's not what the forgetting means - sometimes a cigar is just a cigar y'know... who said that, George Burns? it's the whole thing about asking.
the "Oh No T, Forget It, No Problem, Pardon Me For Asking" thing.

gee, a gen you wine insight. well, miracles do happen!

i had to read this like 3 times before i understood.

Originally Posted by critterlady

I don't think I've ever asked my Ts for anything.

I just wish for things and they're supposed to read my mind. Yeah, there's more than 1 reason I'm in therapy...

me either. my T has told me i could call her whenever (multiple times), and that its easy because i will just leave a message and then she'll call me back when she cans. So she gave me an out that way--i've done it about 8 to 10 times in 4 years. But other than that...nothing. I shouldn't have to need anything from her anyway, right? i just need her to listen and provide feedback. and if she wasn't then she'd be an awful therapist and i wouldnt be there

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by critterlady

I don't think I've ever asked my Ts for anything...

see, that's part of it for me too.

I never asked T1 for anything. It was a real first for me to ask T2 for what I did ask for (it isn't much, if you knew you might be surprised at what a small "cigar" this really is) but I am trying to make this therapy different, better.
well, we'll talk about it ... I guess...

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by earthmamma

In therapy a cigar just being a cigar affords us nothing, it's knowing what that cigar meant to us at deeper levels is where the learning is.

This was such an interesting exchange, because I could tell SAWE and I MEANT the same thing, but were using exactly opposite words to say it. Sort of like how stressing a different word in a sentence can change the meaning. Your comment about the breast resonated with me and definitely informed my response. But trying to hold onto what the forgetting meant or didn't mean and by whom or when was very slippery to me! Triggers start going off - it almost does become like a math story problem, doesn't it? Figuring out when the train switches to the transference track!