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#1
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TRIGGER...RELIGION, MENTION OF SI, AND SEVERAL INFLAMMATORY STATEMENTS FROM MY T. ALSO VERY LONG POST.
I have mixed feelings about my session today. Mostly anger, some sorrow. I'm going to tell how it went, facts only, then at the end post my gut reaction now that I've thought about it for a couple of hours. She addressed my anxiety first. I came in quite anxious following yesterday, what I was going to talk about in session, and a work meeting this morning. We talked about reacting vs. responding. She told me to try to remove myself out of a stressful situation if I could, even if for a few minutes, to walk or sit in my car at work. That would give me time to respond, not react. Reaction is rooted in perfectionism. I consider myself a recovering perfectionist (I dealt with that with my 2nd T). I told her a perfect storm of problems happened yesterday to cause the anxiety, not the least of which was that something is wrong with my right hand which is causing me trouble writing. She suggested I get a manicure. I was like, "How's that going to help?" They massage your hands when they do it. I've had two manicures in my life and they didn't do that. I said maybe I should get a massage. She told me she couldn't have massages anymore because she cannot lie on her stomach since her surgery. So I then managed to distract her by asking about it. I asked if she had a mastectomy, which she did; double. She has "spacers" in right now to stretch the skin for reconstruction, but no one will do the surgery until her heart problems clear up, which they aren't. I felt kinda bad for her. She then asked me to talk about the hard stuff. I asked if she would sit next to me on the loveseat and she did. She actually sat sideways and faced me and I did the same. It helped me feel safer. I made sure I thanked her at the end of the session because it really did help. Terrible-sounding tangent: by having her sit next to me, and really looking at her when she talked to me, I realized something. She is really not an attractive woman. I've never really noticed the details of her face. The part that sounds terrible is this: she reminds me of someone who has Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. She has so many physical characteristics it makes me wonder; low-set ears with attached earlobes, epicampal folds around her eyes, small wide-set eyes, a very short nose that sticks up...puggish, very thin lips, and a small head (like her neck is as wide as her head). She must just have unfortunate genes, because I thought mental retardation was pretty much a given with FAS. Anyway, I told her I didn't know where to start. She said with whatever I wanted. So I went into my bisexuality and affair I had two weeks after I married my H. She asked me question after question trying to get me to keep talking; not about details, but about what I was trying to accomplish at the time and culminated in her asking how it made me feel about myself. I said, "I was a horrible person." She said, "That's not true. Let's turn that into the truth. Did you make mistakes?" "Yes." "Did you make some bad choices?" "Yes." "Did you realize at the time how much your actions affected everyone involved?" "No." Did you realize at the time how much your actions affected yourself?" "No." "Do you realize those things now?" "Yes." "Were you a horrible person?" "No." I told her that time in my life is when I SI'd and diagnosed bipolar and borderline and she said, "That's what sin does to people. It destroys lives. You've decided not to live that way anymore and now you are much healthier. Since you don't present that way (bisexual) anymore, which is not the way God intends for us to live, you are doing better." She told a story about when she worked as a volunteer in a ministry to women who were post-abortive. The leaders told her to make sure she told the women that they had sinned and her response was, "Don't you think they know that already? They killed their children." Then she said, "What I told the women is that God had another plan for their aborted children, that they dwelled in heaven." She said "We have to realize none of us are worthy of the gift of salvation. We all sin. Sin is sin. I could say, 'At least I'm not a pedophile or rapist or murderer.' But I've gossiped, I've lied, I've stolen. To God, the process of forgiveness is the same. So I'm no different than a pedophile." She choked up and got teary at this point. She said she realized that thousands of years ago, God knew she was going to be born. He knew she was going to sin. And he sent his only son to die for her anyway. I asked what if I don't want a relationship with God? She asked why not. I told her I didn't know. She said "Because you're not worthy? None of us are worthy." She then told me the next statement may sound cruel, but it was stated to her when the gospel was presented to her. She told the person sharing with her that she wasn't worthy of God's gift. That person told her none of us is. All God is doing is handing out the gift. We just have to take it. If we refuse his gift, then we are saying that we are better than God. Our "humbleness" is an insincere attempt to reject the gift. Our "unworthiness" becomes an idol. This almost made me cry. I'm unsure why. Then she told me that was my homework. At the end, we set up appointments through the end of the month, then we hugged (she let me hang on for a while, which was nice). The receptionist wasn't in her office, so T did my payment for me. She called me a pet name for the first time ever; "here you go, darlin'" which was kinda endearing. What is not endearing to me is some of her statements in the middle. If I could send her an email right now, this is what it would say: Session today is making me feel uneasy. I feared exactly what happened today; it's one of the reasons I've been hesitating and it's one of the reasons I started with the bisexuality. I do appreciate you sitting with me on the couch because it did make it easier for me to share about myself. But, you said a lot of things, one thing of note being, "it's not the way God intended us to live," in reference to my bisexuality. What I heard is the same damn thing I heard in the past: "Inherently, who you are as a person is wrong." Actually, uneasy is an understatement. The more I think about it, the angrier I become. You inferred that my bisexuality is a sin. You told me you thought it was "wrong" at the end of a session about eight months ago. I asked why you felt that way and you debated whether or not to tell me then. You decided not to and it never came back up. You say I don't present myself that way anymore. Actually, I still very much identify as bisexual. I don't shout it from the mountaintops, but if the subject comes up, I tell people that I am. Not a "reformed" or "healed" bisexual, an actual bisexual. I AM BISEXUAL. I am attracted to men AND women...and honestly, I'm actually more attracted to females. I don't "present" per se because I am married. I made a choice six years ago to stay in my marriage for better or for worse. I made vows and I love my husband. In my eyes, what "made me a horrible person" was not the fact I acted on my bisexuality. In my opinion, what "made me a horrible person" was that I had an affair two weeks after getting married. That I decided to continue the affair for five years despite what I was putting my H, my gf, and myself through. I was selfish then. You believe the Bible is the inherent word of God and should be interpreted literally...except like you said once, Paul didn't like women. So it's okay for women to serve in the church. Well, that's hypocritical. That's not taking it literally. That tactic is called cherry-picking (choosing parts of the Bible that supports your beliefs and ignoring context or anything else that refutes it) and the type of religion I was raised in was full of that. It seems like it is a given that who I am is wrong in your eyes. You're just somebody else who thinks I am wrong. That I need to repent for who I am. The comment about the ladies who had abortions bothers me also. I am pro-life, but what if I wasn't? I know a woman who has had five abortions and she doesn't believe it's sin. She believes it's her reproductive right. I have no qualms with that. I just wouldn't choose it for myself. The part that I couldn't get out because of all the talking you did (I should have interrupted you) is that I feel bad now because I still love and am attracted to ex-gf. Ex-gf still loves and is attracted to me. We started talking about divorcing our H's two weeks after she got married. We still think we were meant for each other. Neither of us want these thoughts. She has two kids to think about." Even if we don't spend time with each other, it doesn't stop the thoughts. I have to sit six days with this. I hate it. I feel like this: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
__________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined. - Henry David Thoreau |
![]() Anonymous100153, anonymous112713, Anonymous32491, Anonymous33425, dazeofdolphins, Lauru, learning1, lostmyway21, rainbow8, Snuffleupagus, sweepy62, Velvet Cactus
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![]() Lauru, rainbow8, sweepy62
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#2
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That's controversial all right!
It also provides a stark contrast between humanist and Christian therapy. If you want to know what a non-humanist therapy looks like, look here! I'm not criticising you or your therapist. Horses for courses. But a horse of a very different colour!
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Mr Ambassador, alias Ancient Plax, alias Captain Therapy, alias Big Poppa, alias Secret Spy, etc. Add that to your tattoo, Baby! |
![]() Chopin99
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#3
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I'm going to be honest with you here. I have only had one therapist ever mention anything about faith to me, and I wasn't bothered at all because he was my pastor. Philosophically we were on the exact same page.
I would never be able to go to a therapist who was of different Christian beliefs as mine and who felt the need to preach to me. I HATE being preached to, particularly by certain Christians who interpret things quite differently than I do. It would make me just fume. There is no changing her beliefs. So, can you tolerate the differences? Could you ask her to leave religious discussion out of your sessions as they are triggering for you? If she won't, I'd be thinking of a change. I just wouldn't be able to tolerate it. |
![]() Chopin99
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#4
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i have had 2 t. both are jewish. both fairly religous jew. i am not jewish. one told me my beliefs in christianity we totally wrong, it was all a lie, etc & judiasm was the only way to go. when i spoke about my beliefs she basically said i was wrong. no matter what ..because i was not a jew. (her words)
my 2nd t is a jew. she is much more open...believes that your faith is your faith..whatever works for you & who is she to challenge that. belief is a powerful thing & a personal thing. i found it very difficult with #1 t. she was so strong in her beliefs that it was difficult for me to bring up any of my issues about my faith. (or the fact that i needed to discuss things about my bigoted anti-semetic parents). #2 t is much easier..even tho i find her much more observent that #1 t who considered herself uber observent. it's just frustrating...i know t's beliefs aren't supposed to play a part in therapy but they do... |
![]() Chopin99
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#5
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Chopin, that story breaks my heart for you. I think I'll PM my response.
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![]() Chopin99
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#6
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Sorry, this really isn't even about you...it's about me...
Your T is a f**kwad. (I'm sorry. I know there are lots of ways in which you really care about her and want her caring too. Again, this is just my option.) It's not ever, ever, EVER OK for a T to make someone feel bad about who they are. That doesn't at all mean they have to agree with it. But they're there to help us live better lives--the healthy, happy lives we envision--not to tear down the ones we had/have. I'm SO angry about this!!! |
![]() CantExplain, Chopin99
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#7
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I'm not sure what to say, Chopin, but I want to support you.
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() I'm a little confused about something. Did you choose this T because your religious views were similar? Did you already know her beliefs? I'm asking because if she thought you and she were on the same wavelength regarding faith, I can understand why she said what she did. If not, then it appears that her statements are out-of-line. I used to see a T who had the same religious views as I do, so I can imagine her telling me things that others would find inappropriate. If I were at a different level, religiously speaking, I would have been offended. I hope you can tell your T that you believe differently from her, and can tell her all of your reactions. It sounds like it's going to be difficult, but I think you and she can get through this! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Chopin99
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#8
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I agree with 2or3things. This is horrible what she told you. Being bisexual is who you are. There is nothing wrong with it at all. Please don't let her make you become someone you aren't. And I am sorry, but that bit about us being no better than pedophiles, rapists, murderers???? Please....I was molested by a pedophile who happened to be my sperm donor aka father. I AM better than him 100%...hell 1000% I do not hurt children in any way. I was also raped, I don't rape or murder. I am a hell of a lot better than them! Who is she to tell you what God wants and how to live a "moral" life. Think for yourself, and if it doesn't ring true for you, then it isn't. She has a right to her beliefs, but you have a right to yours. And I am not better than women who have abortions. It is their choice and their life to live. It is certainly not for ME to say what is morally right for wrong for another. Please....PLEASE ... think if this is the type of therapy you want. There are other types of therapy that are beneficial and don't judge you. You are perfect as you are. God made you the way he did. He did not make a mistake. You are not a mistake. You are not wrong. You are a creation of God and loved. know that we all here have your back and support you. If you live this life without harming others and bringing some little spark of goodness into the world, then you are blessed and the world is better for you being here.
__________________
Lauru-------------That's me, Bipolar and Watching TV ![]() ![]() I shall be telling this with a sigh Somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I— I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference. ---Robert Frost |
![]() Chopin99
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#9
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Are you sure it was your being bisexual that she was referring to, and not that you had an affair when married? Perhaps it was clearer in session but from what you've write maybe it was misinterpretation? I hope you can talk to T about it and work through it.
![]() Everyone has their own beliefs and that's fine but I know for me it's important I share a similar philosophy and idea of spirituality with my T, because the nature of therapy and delving into such deep issues it seems bound to come up at some point. I think Ts need to be careful sometimes when expressing their personal opinions and beliefs, especially if they aren't the most open minded or tolerant. Or, take the client's lead on these issues. I mean, aren't we supposed to be able to tell our Ts anything without the fear of being judged? There's that whole 'unconditional positive regard' thing they're meant to have going on, isn't there? Hmm... maybe the blank slate has its place, eh? |
![]() Chopin99
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#10
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Thanks for all the replies and hugs, everyone.
![]() It is also of note that the practice is a faith-based practice (which I sought out purposefully) but each therapist may have different beliefs. I respect T's beliefs; the problem comes in if she is trying to change how I believe. The whole thing comes down to this: I have to talk to her about it. I want to email; H says to wait until next session. He said I can't always get everything I want rightnow and it is something that can wait. I was slightly dissociated during the session. My H brought up the topic of perception/reality and this is a very valid point. There are four angles to take into consideration here: 1. What she said (what actually came out of her mouth). 2. What she thought she said (which may differ from what actually came out of her mouth). 3. What I heard (which may/may not have been what actually came out of her mouth). 4. What I thought I heard (which may be colored by many factors...sensitivity to the subject, fear of judgment, assuming the worst). I want to clear up any possible miscommunication about this first and foremost. Hopefully, one or both of us misperceived the conversation. At any rate, there are several possible outcomes: 1. I'm completely misinterpreting what she said today through a veil of confusion and fear. There is no problem, we continue. (40% est. probability) ![]() 2. She misinterpreted what I said (perhaps thought I was feeling guilt related to the bisexuality itself which ties into her beliefs) and told me what she'd do from her point of view. I correct her, she understands, we continue. (40% est. probability) ![]() 3. She meant what she said; but once I tell her how it makes me feel, agrees to take a new approach, we continue as long as she sticks to this. (15% est. probability) ![]() 4. She meant what she said, she thinks I must repent to heal, we cannot get past our differences, and I find a new T. (5% est. probability) ![]() I really don't understand it. She has known about my bisexuality since day one. She has never condemned me for it. I don't feel it's ever made her uncomfortable; she's hugged me freely, she sat inches away from me all session today (our legs touching at several points...our heads 3 feet away from each other), and has told me she loves me. Overall, my T has been competent, compassionate, loving, and empathetic. I would think y'all would have picked that up from my posts. She has been very good about meeting my needs when I have asked. She seems to have my best interests at heart. She's made a couple of mistakes, but we've repaired the ruptures and no one is perfect. H said after one whole year of no problems with the bisexuality...with it coming up from time to time, one of us probably has our wires crossed. The only thing is, I don't know if I can wait until next Thursday to bring this up. T has never replied to an email sent on the weekend. She doesn't work Mondays and Tuesday and Wednesday I'm working out of town, so there's no possible way for me to have a session before then. Plus, I saw her schedule today, she looked almost completely booked next week. So, email or not? ![]()
__________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined. - Henry David Thoreau |
![]() Anonymous33425
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#11
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Chopin, I felt really yucky when I read the things your T said. Kind of queasy, sick to my stomach. I felt really bad for you.
![]() ![]() I think your detailed comments about her ugly physical appearance are very telling. Suddenly you see her ugliness--of spirit, of heart, of soul. You also state that people who look like her are often mentally retarded, i.e. cognitively impaired. Perhaps this is your way of observing what you think of the cognitive worth of her statements, that they are BS. ![]() ![]() ![]()
__________________
"Therapists are experts at developing therapeutic relationships." |
![]() Chopin99, Velvet Cactus
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#12
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I keep starting and deleting responses. I keep going back to the same thing - not the right T for you. You want to prey upon her "weaknesses" as an analyst and a woman and a Christian so you can either outsmart her or overpower her or disregard her - at any rate, you will control her and thwart the therapy at every thrust of the sword. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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![]() Chopin99
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#13
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Quote:
If the sort of more fundamentalist christian approach is what you want, then okay and I am not trying to criticize that. But if you want to explore your sexuality and responses to women and men, regardless of how you come down in the end, then perhaps this is not the approach for you. |
![]() CantExplain, Chopin99
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#14
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you are a wonderful person all of you and who you are
__________________
BEHAVIORS ARE EASY WORDS ARE NOT ![]() Dx, HUMAN Rx, no medication for that |
![]() Chopin99
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#15
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That's what she said!
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![]() Chopin99
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#16
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Email if telling her would make you feel better. Do not email if bad feelings from not getting a response outweighs the desire to tell her and get it away from you.
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![]() Chopin99
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#17
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One thing I've learned about people who sincerely and totally believe that their way of living is the only way--religious or any dogma--is that they can't see things other than the way they have been taught or believe. I think you can email if you believe that it will help/assist you in dealing with this serious and harmful wound she has inflicted, but know from the start that she will proabably see it entirely differently than you do. I'm so sorry she took this road with you, Chopin. No one deserves this kind of wounding thrust!
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![]() Chopin99
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#18
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I'm going to send this email. I have calmed down, so I'm thinking more rationally (responding rather than reacting).
T, I apologize in advance for emailing, especially on the weekend, but I really hope you'll reply. I'm really upset. I've been crying off and on since leaving {T's practice}. Something I *believe* you said during session really bothers me. I want to ensure I am not misinterpreting your words or that you misunderstood me, especially considering I finally made the decision to trust you to tell you my story. I know you believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God. You know I respect that. You also know I do not share that belief. I hope you respect that. When I talked about the affair, I said it made me feel I was a horrible person. You helped me see that I was not. I said that it was during that time in my life that I self-injured and was diagnosed bipolar and borderline. You said that is what sin will do to a person. It was the next statement I *think* I remember you saying that bothers me: you don't present that way anymore, which is not the way God intends for us to live. I *think* you were referring to my being bisexual. However, I hope you were not. You made that statement and what I heard, once again, "Inherently, who you are as a person is wrong." I know you believe homosexuality is wrong because you told me about 7-8 months ago. You say I don't present myself that way anymore. Actually, I still identify as bisexual. I don't shout it from the mountaintops, but if the subject comes up, I tell people that I am. Not a "reformed" or "healed" bisexual; an actual bisexual. I am bisexual. Maybe I don't look obviously gay because I am married and no longer go through spells in which I dress in male clothing. I made a choice six years ago to stay in my marriage for better or for worse. I love my husband and want my marriage to work. In my eyes and heart, what made me a horrible person was not the fact that I acted on my bisexuality; it was that I chose to have an affair two weeks after getting married and that I decided to continue the affair for five years despite what I was putting H, ex-GF, and myself through. When I asked you what if I didn't want a relationship with God, it was actually a rhetorical question. I do want a relationship with God. I believe I accepted Christ at the age of 14, ran away from Him at age 23, and rededicated my life at age 31. I have problems with faith; always have. I want someone (you) to help me explore those issues, but someone who will truly respect me no matter what I decide. If I do not "repent" of my bisexuality, will you still respect me or will you think I'll always have something inherently wrong with me and I'll never heal? Please don't be another one of those people in my life. Please tell me I'm wrong, T. This hurts so much. Chopin
__________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined. - Henry David Thoreau |
![]() anonymous112713, Anonymous33425, rainbow8
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![]() roads
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#19
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Quote:
2. She misinterpreted what I said (perhaps thought I was feeling guilt related to the bisexuality itself which ties into her beliefs) and told me what she'd do from her point of view. I correct her, she understands, we continue. (40% est. probability) ![]() 3. She meant what she said; but once I tell her how it makes me feel, agrees to take a new approach, we continue as long as she sticks to this. (15% est. probability) I really question whether your 2 or 3 here are possible because if she has an underlying belief that homosexuality is wrong, and there's a chance that you'd be better off with your ex-gf (and from what you wrote it sounds like it is a possibility), it's hard to believe your t will be open to helping you explore that. You wrote in your email to her that she has said she believes homosexuality is wrong before. As long as you're clear that you understood her on that, I really think your t's "beliefs" are just plain wrong based on modern psychology. I am sorry to say that because you've obviously done a lot of work with her and made progress and I know it totally sucks whenever I think I'm going to have to quit with my t. I don't think it means your work hasn't been real or that your attachment to her is entirely a negative thing, but as hard as it probably is, I think it would be good for you to find a t who is competent with sexuality issues. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Chopin99
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#20
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Choppin I am so sad for you. I'm glad you emailed , I would have too.
![]() No matter the outcome you stayed true to yourself and that my dear is very important. Thinking of you. |
![]() Chopin99, Velvet Cactus
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#21
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Chopin, I read your post earlier today. If it makes you feel better, I am glad you sent your T the letter. I hope your T can offer more clarity, answer your question and address your concerns. When is your next appointment? Don't be surprised if she acknowledges receipt and suggests you talk about it in person at your next session.
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![]() Chopin99
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#22
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I'm just socked that your t would bring up her opinions during sessions. I thought t's were meant to leave their opinions out of things...
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![]() Chopin99
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#23
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Hi Chopin,
I've been away from this forum for a few days and I am only now catching up on posts. I thought it was interesting in your original post that you were finding flaws with the way your t looks. Could it be that you are starting to feel flaws in her as your t? I know you've been on a long journey with her, but it now sounds like you are questioning her guidance. I believe you must have searched for a Christian counselor when you first met with her judging from the amount of Christian references that your sessions include. If you are not longer in need of this type of counseling, then perhaps you need to seek out other options. I am not going to go into my beliefs here, but I, too, am a Christian, but I don't practice in the same way as your t. I don't know what my t believes, nor do I want her advice from this perspective. I have a minister for that, if needed. Personally I don't want to be judged by whom I choose to love or seek comfort from. Chopin, I know you have great respect and love for you t. I hope that your email helps to get the both of you in the right place concerning your therapy. You should feel good after a session, not crying! Bluemountains |
![]() Chopin99
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#24
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Thanks to all who have expressed concern for me. You don't know how much it means to me.
![]() I do want to clarify something. I sought out a Christian counselor. I knew beliefs could come into play. Some have stated that my T has "shared too much about her beliefs". However, I do not and here is why. From the practice website: We do not impose our faith/beliefs upon anyone, but we are not ashamed to expose principles of faith when and only if it is appropriate and does not cause harm. What I do expect is respect. If I choose something different for my life, I want respect. What T said is what she believes. That in and of itself is okay with me. I respect her beliefs. I simply want to be respected for my beliefs, even if they are different from hers. She has shown respect for my beliefs so far in one year of therapy. I just hope she continues. I waited to send the email to T until a few minutes ago. I wanted to sleep on it, see if I wanted to change anything, and I didn't. We'll see what happens.
__________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined. - Henry David Thoreau |
![]() anonymous112713, roads
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#25
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Quote:
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![]() Chopin99
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