As i told you guys, I finally told my t by e-mail some things I thought I would take to my grave. One of his boundaries is no e-mails, which he relaxed to allow me to e-mail this story about my early life because I didn't think I'd EVER be able to say it out loud. During the session, I didn't really want to talk about what I e-mailed to him. Part of me e-mailing it to him, was the understanding that we would discuss it at the next session, so I felt like I HAD to discuss it. We talked about it a little, and then I changed the subject. My T told me he was having a dilemma about how hard to push me to stay on topic versus letting me avoid the topic. He said he was trying to balance my personal autonomy and having me not feel forced, versus knowing that I would avoid this topic to the end of time if possible.

I told him that he was going to have to let me change the subject some at least because the conversation was SO uncomfortable for me. But, I know that I NEED to address this at some point and I clearly do not know how to do so by myself. I am not certain that I am capable of bringing up the subject or staying on topic long enough to do myself any good. EVERY time I have disclosed anything sensitive about myself, up to this point in my life, it has come back to bite me in the rear. This stuff about me is beyond sensitive. It feels like it will destroy my life to have anyone know. I just don't want to give someone else that much power of me. So god only knows how long it will take me to get this crap out if I don't tell him to push me on this topic. But, I don't want to give him permission to push me because I don't even want him to know anyway.

Input? Your personal experiences either with a T pushing you, or with revealing stuff you thought you'd rather die than tell? And I mean that last part seriously. At one point, I quite literally would have killed myself rather than have anyone know this about me.

[stopdog]

I do not respond well to being pushed, commanded, ordered, etc. The t I see has pushed and I have pushed back, gone away and flat out attacked to push her back. I personally will reveal when I think it is safe to do so and if the t backs off, then I can get to it, if the t is pushing, I get so engaged in making sure I am only revealing what I want for me and not in response to pushing, that it gets to be a battle for me to make sure she is pushed back far enough that I am safe again. The t has now learned not to push if I clearly indicate to back off. It seems to work because once the t has backed off (shown respect for me, is not trying to barge through my boundaries etc) - then I can go there some. In little increments.

My T can push HARD. Very hard. And sometimes its just excruciating, because there are some topics I just do NOT want to discuss, even though I know I SHOULD in order to heal. And T pushes. On occassion I've yelled at her, "I do NOT want to talk about this!!" and she's all like, "We ARE going to talk about this!" So I tell her stuff I'd rather die than tell. But thankfully, I have been through this enough times with her that I KNOW she isn't going to hold anything against me, isn't going to desert me, isn't going to judge me or think badly for me. In fact, those sessions always seem to be the most productive and helpful, as frightening as they are.

My T definitely pushes me, and as excruciating as it is, I don't regret it or resent it at all. If I am not pushed I will stay cocooned in very well established avoidance techniques. There are times though that he realizes today is just not the day and he will actually tell me he is steering me away from certain topics. He knows me well and that gives me a strong sense of safety.

[growlycat]

I am impressed that my T knows what I need in order to tell him those things I too thought would go with me to the grave. It is more cajoling than pushing. Like a carrot on a stick, really only I get a bit of reward in advance for heading in the right direction (towards talking and not closing up.)

His voice will get soft, I'll feel like he is talking to me like a child and with anyone else it would seem patronizing, but with him I eat it up. I would admit anything just to be coddled like that. I'm not proud of it, but it works.

He will say things like "You and I are old friends, I don't think there is anything we can't talk about." Or if i'm sobbing and not verbalizing what is going on he will actually make this "shhh" sound as if I'm small again. He finds these ways of getting me to talk that in retrospect seem kind of manipulative but I feed on it like an addict and I don't care if it is a theraputic tactic.

Hhmm, why does he not trust in his own process? With time we are able to talk about stuff. We begin with tiny bits then as we grow stronger and trusting we talk a little more. Telling you your never talk about this stuff unless pushed sounds unprofessional

[CantExplain]

My T doesn't push that hard. "We don't have to talk about that if you don't want to." She can get away with this because I push myself very hard. I trust her completely and I like to tackle difficult topics head-on. I have a horror of deception and I think secrets are poisonous.

Maybe that's what she means when she says I am a pleasure to work with.

INSIGHT:

My mother would have preferred me to be more discrete, and one of the ways I rebelled against her was by not hiding my "otherness" - rubbing her nose in it, in fact. And curiously, I was never actually punished for that.

[stopdog]

MKC - how do you respond to pushing in general?

[Perna]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

I just don't want to give someone else that much power of me.

Your story is not You! You can either share your story, weaken its hold over you as it gets outside you and takes its actual shape, or you give It the power over you by allowing it to be more important to you than it warrants. Get angry at the story and push it from you; what does it think it is to make you believe it should play that great a role in your life now; its time is through!

SarahMichelle, my guy has never pushed me THAT hard. I started sweating just reading your post. So that is probably too much pushing for me, personally.

farmergirl, I think what you are describing, and growlycat, is more what my T does. It's more persuading me to TRY to put my horrible stuff out there. Persuading me not to stay with the avoidance and denial techniques that have clearly stopped working well for me.

earthmama, the thing about my never talking about this subject unless pushed was kind of echoing my words to him. I had said something along the lines of I had never planned to discuss this subject ever. ever. EVER. EVER. ****ING EVER. NEVER ****ING EVER. Sooooo, he may have gotten that idea from me. I may have actually used the F word a feeeew times about it.

stopdog, pushing is an odd thing for me. If I don't know you or love you, I absolutely don't tolerate it. I tend (somewhat) to let people I love push me around. The abuse and the total absence of affection may have affected my ability to stand up for myself and think I'm worthy of being treated well. And unfortunately, I've totally fallen for my T. [double ] Over the course of two times in therapy, however, I've gotten better about standing up for myself.

My T has pushed me pretty hard twice. Once, we were having a discussion about something with my family, and he was pleased about my implementation of a technique we had discussed, and he said, "that's great! That's you taking care of you." Then later, when he was pushing me to discuss something I really didn't want to, I said no. He asked me to try. I said, "NO. This is me taking care of me. I don't want to." He looked at me for quite a while and seemed speechless, and then said, "Wow. You're good. You should be an attorney or something." Then we laughed and went on.

The only other time he's pushed at me, it was about him expressing sympathy and sorrow for what happened to me growing up. At one point that annoyed me and told him to stop. He kept on until I shouted, "STOP!" at him. He then just asked me why and when I didn't have an answer, he repeated the stupid sympathy thing again.

So, really long way of saying I'm not sure how I'd respond to him pushing. I guess it depends on how he does it or how hard.

[JustWannaDisappear]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Input? Your personal experiences either with a T pushing you, or with revealing stuff you thought you'd rather die than tell? And I mean that last part seriously. At one point, I quite literally would have killed myself rather than have anyone know this about me.

I won't let T push me. If she asks me something that I am not comfortable discussing I tell her no I won't talk about it. She says okay well if you decide you want to at some point let me know.

I've told her about my trust in the past was betrayed and that I decided I would no longer talk about this specific topic because of that. Every so often she mentions it and tells me how it can/does relate to something else in my life that we are/will be working on.

I also had a T push me when I was in treatment and I got up and walked out. She knows that as well and how I have a history of stopping therapy when being pushed.

[stopdog]

MKC - is there a middle ground to negotiate here? Like the t can bring it up and ask one or two questions and you can see how dangerous that feels and decide how to respond? If you respond a little, it does not mean you have to keep going.
For me, if the therapist brings it up, I can go with it some, as long as I know I can have her stop without mocking or berating me when I indicate that is all. So she will bring up something, I may deflect and we go on elsewhere and I bring it back up later in the appointment OR she brings it up, I go with it until it feels like my chest is going to explode, and then I go in another direction without worry she will try to force me back (only try - she fails at forcing me - I feel triumphant at that). My other option (when not quitting or attacking her to get her to stop) was to disassociate - which is less useful to me.

[precious things]

My dr does not push me AT ALL...I think he wants me to feel like I have total control since so much has been taken away from me by other people throughout my life. I asked him why he doesn't push me to talk more when I fall into long silience and he said he would never manipuate me. It bothered me at first but I realize this is the kind of care I wasn't shown by others and he is trying to create safety for me.

He may make passing comments on certain sensitive topics and I take that as my cue to either open up more or completely ignore what he says and move along to a new thought. He never pushes though.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I may deflect and we go on elsewhere and I bring it back up later in the appointment OR she brings it up, I go with it until it feels like my chest is going to explode, and then I go in another direction without worry she will try to force me back

My T once likened my style to someone driving their car down the interstate and suddenly jumping off on a cloverleaf without warning, only to circle around and get back on later That became a helpful image for us as we could then both watch and notice when it happened (and then "pushing" wasn't necessary). I got better at either not jumping, staying on the interstate and slowing down or letting T know I was frightened or warning I was going to exit. Of course, with the warning, we'd both patiently watch me circle around so it got kind of "dumb" feeling to bother getting off? LOL

[Towanda]

My T has never pushed me to reveal anything - he has always said that the power is in my hands when and if to reveal whatever. So then if I say it's hard or disgusting he will either say "Just say it" or he will sit in silence and give me a chance to say how much or how little I want to reveal. This way, over the six years I've been in therapy with him, he has gotten to know EVERYTHING about me - there is nothing he doesn't know. I trust him completely because he has never pushed or cajoled me into self disclosure - it's always been on my terms.

One of the problems I've had with my therapist is that she won't push me at all. She's very respectful of my integrity, and I do appreciate that, but because I have excellent avoidance skills and am ridiculously afraid of bringing up the topics I need to talk about, our sessions tend to be more friendly chitchat than what I imagine therapy "ought to" be like. Three weeks ago, I asked her to push me more and be just a little bit more insistent on my telling her about my real issues. She promised she would, but in my next session things were pretty much back to normal. My next session is tomorrow, and I frankly have no idea what to expect. :-/

I feel a little awkward about jumping into the conversation here - I haven't lurked for long enough to pick up all the unwritten rules of the forums, I'm afraid, but I hope I'm not breaking them (no, the rules, not the forums!) by doing this.

Originally Posted by Apteryx

One of the problems I've had with my therapist is that she won't push me at all. She's very respectful of my integrity, and I do appreciate that, but because I have excellent avoidance skills and am ridiculously afraid of bringing up the topics I need to talk about, our sessions tend to be more friendly chitchat than what I imagine therapy "ought to" be like. Three weeks ago, I asked her to push me more and be just a little bit more insistent on my telling her about my real issues. She promised she would, but in my next session things were pretty much back to normal. My next session is tomorrow, and I frankly have no idea what to expect. :-/

I feel a little awkward about jumping into the conversation here - I haven't lurked for long enough to pick up all the unwritten rules of the forums, I'm afraid, but I hope I'm not breaking them (no, the rules, not the forums!) by doing this.

Feel free to leap in! I appreciate the input. I also can avoid stuff like nobody's business which is why I was not immediately dismissive of the idea of my t pushing me a bit.

I really do appreciate all of the input. I need to think about this some more, I guess. Maybe your suggestion, stopdog, about negotiating a middle ground might work. And incorporate some of Perna's circling around just to give me a little relief. So, he can bring it up, but has to let me circle away for a while, and then just suggest we come back to the topic.

[Velvet Cactus]

Push? He doesn't even poke!

Originally Posted by Velvet Cactus

Push? He doesn't even poke!

This made me lol!

I find my T is gentle with me, as she's aware of my 'fragility'... sometimes I wish she would push me a bit - that maybe I need it sometimes - but then I wonder how well I'd really cope if she did. I attempt to push myself, and though I don't know how successful I really am with that, I'm trying! T says she trusts her clients' 'process', and so I'm trusting my T to work with me and help me go at the right pace

[granite1]

my T doen't usually push me very hard or at least i dont notice it.i do tent to react to the simplest things and am convinced she hates me without much pushing.she has pushed me a few times and it was like i was hit bu a tornado.i felt like i wasnt in controle at all and she was way scarey and it was very very hard.in the next sessions she would apologise and said i wasn't talking and that at the time she felt she really needed to know what was going on.it was hard and scarey

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Perna

Your story is not You! You can either share your story, weaken its hold over you as it gets outside you and takes its actual shape, or you give It the power over you by allowing it to be more important to you than it warrants. Get angry at the story and push it from you; what does it think it is to make you believe it should play that great a role in your life now; its time is through!

As Master Splinter said in the Turtles movie:

Do not mistake
the story of your origins
for your current worth.

[Perna]

The map is not the territory.

My history is not my destiny, right? I wish it FELT like that.

I feel sick about going tomorrow. Marriage counseling was a total disaster today and I just feel so sad and hopeless. I am just an angry, horrible person. ugh.

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

I just feel so sad and hopeless. I am just an angry, horrible person. ugh.

That is so not true. How bad could you be, your kids are cool, right? You can get through this, one breathe at a time.