Welcome to couch # 18

Everyone went to bed early tonight.

I think I really do hate therapists.

Morning all. Good to see you on the couch, antimatter!

I'm sorry if I contributed to anybody's anxiety about T leaving.

Did anything happen to bring that on now, or is it a comment on the discussion?

That's me screwed, then. I doubt I would be able to say the L word in T so I guess I'm safe from discussing it though.

Do you know this or is it your interpretation? As a pragmaticist I contest the assertion that you can know what people always mean when they say a particular thing. It's about context - which in this case includes the personalities of the people involved in the discourse.

I don't believe that. I think that it is a process, as in, something that you go through step by step to get from where you were to where you want to be so to speak, and I do also very much believe that you get out of it what you put into it.... anybody who goes into therapy and just waits for the therapist to "fix" them is in for a long road. They can teach us HOW to do the work, but they can't do the work FOR us. We have to do the hard work. It is hard. I'm not saying it isn't. But it is SO worth it.

It requires faith to listen to a T for weeks on end when she doesn't seem to be making any sense. And faith doesn't come easily to everyone. Some people are too damaged to even start therapy. God help them!

My heart told me, "This woman can help you", even though there was precious little evidence of it in the first year or two.

I saw that one again and I despise they way they talk and blame the client. I don't hate the person, but I do hate the therapist and their smugness

I believe if it were real, there would be a clear, understandable definition.

If that were true, then the process could be and would be explained to clients.

Faith in what? That the therapist is not a charlatan? Faith that eventually one will figure out what to do or be dead? Faith that the person who cannot explain what is supposed to be happening knows what they are doing and not just messing with people or just staying there until the person decides they are better or that it would get better without any intervention anyway like with a cold?

Okay, it is almost 2 and I am wide awake. I'm debating going for a night walk, but I think it might start raining again.

I took my dogs out for a late night walk. It is rainy here too - or rather misty. Quite quiet and pleasant with the dogs.

Misty I like. Thunderstorms scare me though, and I've been hearing thunder. I may wait an hour, and try then. The quiet is something I enjoy about wandering about late at night.

"If that were true, then the process could be and would be explained to clients."

Ah semantics. The 'process' would be the moving through a series of steps um, let's call them procedures - and the procedures would vary from client to client because we are all different. But it's still a process, because as we do the work, progress is made little by little as we work through the procedures or whatever you want to call it. Just because it isn't the same for everybody doesn't mean it's not a process.

I don't want this to turn into an argument so I'm gonna bow out now. SD I respect the thoughts, opinions and the wit you share with us here. I just sorta feel strongly about this subject because the 'process' for lack of a better word that I have been going through with my T has helped me SOOOOO much and I just wish the same for everyone.

Peace out!
-Art

Apt - I am sure that you did not add to anyone's anxiety. I think worrying about T leaving is fairly common for some of us.

I am glad you feel it is working for you.
I am not trying to argue either, just trying to make my position understood. I do not understand what trust the process means in any useful way nor what the "doing the work" means. I do agree that the therapist cannot fix anything. And I would not trust them to do it correctly even if they tried. And I am very frustrated with both the lack of clear information from therapists and my seeming inability to explain what I mean.

Correct.

Faith that the woman might know more that she is capable of explaining.

Explicit, structured knowledge that can be explained and proved is only half the universe.
There is a world of the heart that you cannot yet see.
No amount of argument will make it visible. You must have faith.

And therefore as a stranger give it welcome.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

And how is that possibly useful for a client? Until it is explained it is knowledge that is only useful to the bearer.

Hi Stopdog!

If you want a therapist who can explain what she is doing with rational arguments, you might want to try a therapist who specialises in Aspergics. Your local Aspergers support group might know one.

Therapists tend to be intuitionists, which is bad news for structured thinkers like you and me. I still don't think my T takes my mindset seriously enough.

good morning all...

holy mother-of-all back pain. With a side of headache. Good thing that I haven't planned much for today.

Stopdog, I'm with you on this therapy thing. Sick of wasting time and money on some "process" that can neither be explained nor planned out. I want a flow chart, dammit. Or an outline. How about a proposal? Every book says something different, and none of these people can make up their minds about treatment. Who works like that?

I guess you all are right.

Good morning, USAnians - hope you'll have a good Wednesday. Who wants pocket riders?

Good morning.

I had nightmares last night again. I haven't had those in awhile, so I feel a bit funny about that. I think I might get up and have a decent breakfast before work.

As a more intuitive thinker, it is somewhat difficult for me to comprehend the extremely logical thought processes of some here. My H also thinks this way and it is sometimes difficult for us to understand each other. I think therapy can be and has been helpful and healing. I believe one must have faith, both in the therapist and in the process for it to work. It would be akin to choosing to practice a religion you don't believe in.

Everyone is different. That is fabulous. It keeps the world going round. It takes people of all skill levels, modes of thinking, and abilities to make the world work.

Have a great day!

sorry apt...don't listen to me, I am grumpy.

Perhaps. And yet there is nothing compelling about a world of the heart for me. I see no use or purpose for it, it does not sound interesting, and there has been no convincing reason as to how it would help with why I sought a therapist.

Morning all. I'm chiseling out of doing exercise this morning. Just too tired. I don't like exercising in the morning. My husband has been trying to get to it in the morning. I really prefer evenings because it helps me get rid of stress accumulated during the day. He prefers mornings so he can be more settled and get more work done.

This is something I fear - that therapy is like religion. I may have wasted thousands of dollars on a type of religion. (I am not criticizing anyone who believes in or finds religion useful. I simply do not for me)