[mixedup_emotions]

One of the things I've been working on in therapy is setting limits/boundaries. It's SO hard for me. *sigh*

Whenever someone crosses a boundary, I somehow regress into a cowering state...fearful of hurting someone's feelings, saying "no", etc. I realize that this comes from having a tumultuous past of abuse. But, I am working towards change.

I shed all of the unhealthy relationships in my life - my job, my marriage, my best friend, etc. So, now I need to work on building healthier relationships in my life.

Now, my former best friend is the person who tried to run me over (suffers from BPD)....so my radar is on high gear every time I meet someone new. I am trying to sniff out those tendencies because I am fearful of getting into another friendship that I won't have the courage to get out of. T wants me to give people a chance and to set limits along the way.

Last spring, I started exercising with the mom of one of my daughter's friends. Shortly after, we started to hang out on a regular basis....and my BPD-radar was on high alert. There were signs - BIG signs....explosive personality, controlling, emotionally sensitive, manipulative, high expectations...if she didn't hear from me in a day or two, she got mad....etc. I ended that friendship.

Recently, I became closer with one person that I've known for about 3 years. We have a great time together....but the attachment, dependency issues are surfacing. We had plans over the weekend that we were preparing for - so I spent a lot of time there over 3 days. Yesterday, I wasn't at her house....and by today, I had gotten 3 voicemails, an email and a FB message - first it was - "You're my new BFF now. I was surprised that you didn't come over today! I miss you!"....then, it was, "Are you mad at me? Did I do something wrong?"

I was suffering from a severe migraine (still am), so I didn't get back to her until this afternoon (only 1-1/2 days since I saw her last).

I am getting those vibes again....dependency, neediness...and I am struggling. We get along great, and we have a great time together - BUT I cannot have another person in my life with high expectations of me dropping everything to be there for her every day.

When addressing the plans for the organization that she runs, I told her that it has to be a hobby for me - that I can't commit to frequent gatherings because I need to have balance in my life. I need to focus on my daughter, getting a full time job, etc.

I am not sure she understands it just yet. When we talked on the phone this afternoon, she was wondering what I was up to tonight....and tomorrow.....I don't want another friendship where I have to tell her where I am just to justify why I'm not at her house.

*sigh*

Is this normal for friendships? Or is it just me? Here I am thinking, OH NO, not another one.

T would tell me that this is an opportunity to set limits early in the friendship. I am trying. And it's hard....but it has left me feeling quite fearful of venturing out into the world to meet new people, because this seems to keep happening. Why is it that I always find the ones that have these issues?

MUE,

I've just purchased this book "Safe People: How to Find Relationships That Are Good for You and Avoid Those That Aren't by Henry Cloud (warning there may be a religious slant to this book)...

I haven't read it all but there were characteristics of unsafe people and i plan to use those when I try to start new friendships... maybe you should check it out..

MUE, maybe it really is just a matter of setting limits with this new friend. She may just not know what to expect from this new relationship either, and her saying these things is just her way of letting you know that IF you wish to come over you are welcome? I started a new friendship last year and we went through a period where we were seeing each other virtually every day for a while, and then not at all for a month or more because my life was just too crazy. I think it was a bit hard for my friend and I received several anxious, 'are you mad at me?' type emails. Then HER life got busy and I was the one going, 'did I make you mad by being unavailable?' So, new relationships take adjustments and sort of giving each other allowances for not being as socially skilled as we might all like sometimes.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

Recently, I became closer with one person that I've known for about 3 years. We have a great time together....but the attachment, dependency issues are surfacing. We had plans over the weekend that we were preparing for - so I spent a lot of time there over 3 days. Yesterday, I wasn't at her house....and by today, I had gotten 3 voicemails, an email and a FB message - first it was - "You're my new BFF now. I was surprised that you didn't come over today! I miss you!"....then, it was, "Are you mad at me? Did I do something wrong?"

I was suffering from a severe migraine (still am), so I didn't get back to her until this afternoon (only 1-1/2 days since I saw her last).

I am getting those vibes again....dependency, neediness...and I am struggling. We get along great, and we have a great time together - BUT I cannot have another person in my life with high expectations of me dropping everything to be there for her every day.

When addressing the plans for the organization that she runs, I told her that it has to be a hobby for me - that I can't commit to frequent gatherings because I need to have balance in my life. I need to focus on my daughter, getting a full time job, etc.

I am not sure she understands it just yet. When we talked on the phone this afternoon, she was wondering what I was up to tonight....and tomorrow.....I don't want another friendship where I have to tell her where I am just to justify why I'm not at her house.

Are you sure that she really has these as-you-labeled-them "dependency" and "neediness" issues, or is this really about expectations and desires for friendship and contact. Look at the context-- you spent a lot of time together for 3 days, really enjoyed each other's company, and her messages to you after a couple of days without context actually seem pretty reasonable to me. Asking whether someone is mad at you is a hell of a lot healthier than trying to manipulate some kind of indirect response. She might have room in her life for a "bestie" who wants to spend a lot of time with her, and your behavior would indicate that you might fit that bill. I guess I would see neediness and dependency as someone who calls constantly and is constantly trying to wheedle interaction out of you, as in "I need to see you, I'm SO lonely." She sounds like she's just being honest and is wanting contact, but not demanding or being guilting about it. She sounds like she is just asking for what she wants, and maybe you're so spooked about your past experiences that you are pulling away without explanation, so she thinks she's made you angry.

It doesn't sound like she is resisting your boundaries at all-- that's what needy and dependent people do in my experience. You've done a good job letting her know about the "hobby" thing. Maybe you could be upfront, because it seems like she's the one asking to get together and you're the one either accepting or not, which puts you in the powerful position, about what kind of time you have to spend together. You can reinforce that you enjoy her company lots but you have limited time.

I think you might be unintentionally creating a pattern by seeing behavior that doesn't necessarily fit it as something about the other person. But then again, I might be off base.

I agree with MKAC and Anne, not everyone who does the " are you mad at me " thing, is necessarily going to be a bad person for a friendship. Maybe she was just feeling it out to see what the boundaries of your relationship are going to be. It wont always be all or nothing, sometimes people have moments and coming off a 3 day marathon hangout session to nothing may just have hit on her own issues making her question if it was a her thing or a you thing. I've done this to friends and also had friends do it to me, just not on a regular basis.

Great advice Anne.
Mue, I am having the exact same issues. I was starting to think I was going loopers because everyone around me was so needy and dependant and needed my constant attention and reasurrance. It was emotionally exhausting- this year alone I have shed at least ten friends. I told T about it and I said it must be my behaviour beacuse everyone else can't be like that. I wanted to know what I was doing to attract these types of people and of course it is to do with healthy boundaries and how I react to people who invade my boundaries... I open the door and let them in. So now the door stays firmly locked but one or two creeps still get in.
Anne was right though when she said that this friend hasn't given any warning signs and she does seem genuine, just because you have had some pretty bad experiences in the past try not to let them paint your future.

[pbutton]

I think 3 voicemails, an email and a FB message sounds like a LOT of messages for one day. Wouldn't a healthy person have allowed for a little more response time?

I think that depends on several factors.... to some it does appear to be a lot, but what if the friend was genuinely concerned that the OP was hurt or MIA? Is the OP someone who normally answers their phone or returns voicemails? With technology being how it is today its easier to reach out to check on people. I mean we don't know the state of the OP and the friend at the time they parted ways and this was over 1 1/2 days. Did the friend know the OP suffered migraines? Maybe the friend was worried? 3 days of hanging out and then nothing? My friends and I all minimally text to say we made it home, as we are concerned for each others well being and safety. Not everyone who reaches out to others should be labelled needy and or dependent. Part of friendship involves taking turns with those roles as support for each other. Too write off anyone who appears to be stepping over a boundary when one hasn't been established , is to set ourselves up for missing out on some truly genuine, caring people in our lives. This behavior is not always from a self serving place and past experience with other people may prevent one from seeing that.

[pbutton]

Right. But some people do take it too far, see relationships that are not really there, and bombard people with unwanted messages. It's up to MUE to decide what she wants to deal with and what is not healthy. Friendship doesn't mean knowing where someone is and what they are doing 24/7. People do not always have an equal amount of interest in one another.

i agree.

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by Readytostop

MUE,

I've just purchased this book "Safe People: How to Find Relationships That Are Good for You and Avoid Those That Aren't by Henry Cloud (warning there may be a religious slant to this book)...

I haven't read it all but there were characteristics of unsafe people and i plan to use those when I try to start new friendships... maybe you should check it out..

Thanks for the suggestion! I will definitely check it out!

[mixedup_emotions]

I appreciate all the feedback. I do realize that I am tainted by past experiences when it comes to developing new friendships. I wonder if I am setting it up to fail....

It's ironic, because I was totally honest with the last two people that I started friendships with about my fears about delving into new friendships, the bad ones I've had, the result, etc. - and how I can't be getting involved with people who don't respect my space and boundaries.

During my last session with T, I mentioned that I had that vibe....and we talked about it. He said that I have a good understanding of what's healthy and what's not, so I should trust my instincts. I am struggling with that, because I am not sure I'd agree. I don't want to read into things too much and be on guard because of these past experiences.

One example was, I told him that when I saw her one day last week, I told her I could only stay until a certain time cuz I needed to pick up my daughter and take her to an appt. When I was leaving, she said, "You're coming back afterwards, right?"

That was a trigger for me.....T said that it wasn't a simple, casual question - it was an insistence, an expectation.

T told me that I have good instincts when it comes to boundaries and to think about what I would say if I was the other person...and I know I would never ask something like that. I wouldn't put that burden on someone. I would say something like, "You're more than welcome to come back afterwards - but if you can't that's ok! Don't feel obligated, just putting it out there."

*sigh*

I don't want friendships that are hard. T tells me that I need to get out more, socialize more - but need to maintain limits, set boundaries and have some balance. Easier said than done.

[unaluna]

just wanted to say this is a good question and difficult for me too.

Well coming from someone who has been stalked by three different girls I don't think you can ever have enough boundaries or be on guard enough! Like t said trust your instincts and I know if it was me I would run a mile from her!

We Are drawn to people that Match our level of growth.

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by earthmamma

We Are drawn to people that Match our level of growth.

I recall my T saying something to that effect almost a year ago. He said that he didn't expect me to go from where I am now to having the healthiest relationships in the world. I don't quite understand why that is.

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by button30

Well coming from someone who has been stalked by three different girls I don't think you can ever have enough boundaries or be on guard enough! Like t said trust your instincts and I know if it was me I would run a mile from her!

I hear ya. I am tempted to do that, but T keeps telling me that I need to give people a chance...and that it's an opportunity for me to do something different, like setting limits. I could be missing out on rewarding relationships by rejecting people without giving them a chance to try to fit within the limits that I set for myself.

I guess I just want the easy way out....I don't want to do the work of setting limits. But I know I need the practice....

Because different mental defences fall away in layers. Our wounds are not this or that they are built up in layers. And because one thing seems to feel better there are other layers. It's a gradual thing. Gradually things that you felt we're normal in relationships begin to feel unhealthy.

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by earthmamma

Because different mental defences fall away in layers. Our wounds are not this or that they are built up in layers. And because one thing seems to feel better there are other layers. It's a gradual thing. Gradually things that you felt we're normal in relationships begin to feel unhealthy.

So, that seems to suggest that I am making progress, just simply by noticing these things and recognizing them as possible red flags. I may be going overboard with it, but it's a step.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

So, that seems to suggest that I am making progress, just simply by noticing these things and recognizing them as possible red flags. I may be going overboard with it, but it's a step.

Yes! I think that for me, I often make progress like the pendulum swings back and forth, and eventually get closer to balance.

Awareness is a huge step, too. You are doing really well. It sounds like you are both keeping yourself open and very willing to stand up for your boundaries.

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

So, that seems to suggest that I am making progress, just simply by noticing these things and recognizing them as possible red flags. I may be going overboard with it, but it's a step.

Yes I found eventually I no longer had to hang others defects out to dry. I just noticed & continued on in my journey.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

I guess I just want the easy way out....I don't want to do the work of setting limits.

This is everyday, normal self care. Everyone needs to do this through out their lives. It is no one else's responsibility to maintain your boundaries. No one else could possibly do this job for you. This is your job.

Why don't you want to do it?

[pbutton]

I don't want to speak for MUE, but I have found it can be exhausting to try to maintain boundaries with people who constantly try to rail against them.

[Sannah]

Then this calls for a strategy change. You must maintain your boundaries but if you are around someone who you always need to do this with then it is probably best to get them out of your life. But like MUE's therapist said, she needs to give them the chance to accomodate to her boundaries. And MUE even stated that she doesn't want to enforce boundaries.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by pbutton

I don't want to speak for MUE, but I have found it can be exhausting to try to maintain boundaries with people who constantly try to rail against them.

Yeah, T says if he explains to them a few times, but it continues to be a problem, he cuts them loose eventually. ie gf's.