[BeHappy123]

I've been a PATIENT in therapy for more than 40+ years, seeing every TYPE of "counselor", from social workers to psychologists and mostly psychiatrists. I would say I have a fair share of experience being on that side of the couch. I also hold a degree as a D.D.S and more importantly as a C.A.S.A C worker (Certificate-Alcohol-Substance Abuse-Counseling).
Specifically, I'd appreciate hearing your views on the following issue which occurred over the past 2 days. I've been in a relationship for about 18 months. "F." is my partner. As we came to know each other, it was fairly easy for me to detect he had some issues, like most of us do. However, his were significant enough that they began to affect our relationship. He had never been in therapy and was understandably nervous to the point of refusing to go, despite ADMITING he realized "something was wrong". Thankfully as I am still in therapy myself I was able to discuss these issues with my psychologist. I was able to deal with "F" up to a point. [which for the sake of this discussion could be referred to as verbal abuse by "F"]. Apparently seeing how hurt I was, he finally said that he wanted to start therapy and asked if I could help him find someone who might be suitable. This was accomplished and "F" started seeing "Tony". I did an initial consultation with Tony over the phone briefing him on the issues as I saw them and most importantly saying this would all be new to "F". He understood. Thankfully "F" immediately felt comfortable; and they saw each other only once per month [for cost reasons] but recently twice a month. "F" would tell me a few things following a session. My only concern that the good rapport continued as did "F's" appointments. This past Monday, "F" was telling me a few details of his last session, one of which provoked some concern on my part. In essence the therapist was making a decision regarding medication which concerned me since I love "F". In addition, there has been an ongoing "problem" related to intimacy which I wasn't sure was being addressed. "F" was very vague. I didn't pursue the matter over the course of "F's" treatment.
Yesterday I sent an email to Tony saying I had a few areas of concern, and wondered if I could speak to him on the phone about them.
He graciously agreed and we set up a phone "consultation" of about 45 minutes. We discussed the medication issue and the intimacy issue. He strictly protected the rights of "F's" privacy regarding patient privacy, citing this over and over again. I know all about this already, so I wasn't expecting ANSWERS, but was merely expressing my CONCERNS. (ie hoping to make Tony aware of my feelings regarding these matters). We concluded and he thanked me for calling.
"F" came home from his appointment this evening and upon entering the house a CHILL proceeded his every step as he made his was to the bedroom and laid down. Tony STARTED the session by asking "F" how he felt about the phone call I made to him the previous day. "F" was speechless, as Tony proceeded to seemingly quote me verbatim on everything I had told him - I thought IN CONFIDENTIALITY. I felt as though the blood drained from my body as I laid there; as though going into a state of shock. "F" spoke for a long time as I quietly listened. I asked for a chance to defend the reasons for my call. In the end it seemed that I had managed to placate "F's" immediate anger with me. [he only raised his voice once which I proudly affirmed to him as a sign of growth]. Even his level-headed approach to expressing his anger was for the first time done in an adult-like fashion, again I applauded him as an encouragement to "let it out" by expressing anger at the moment we feel it rather than bottling it up.
Alice, in YOUR opinion did Tony handle the matter of my phone call in an appropriate manner? Specifically should it even have been brought up? Admittedly at no point in my phone discussion with Tony did I even think to mention that our conversation was to remain private between just the two of us. I simply took it for granted. Furthermore, I would have thought it necessary for Tony to tell me from the get-go that anything I told him would be open to free discussion with "F". Had THAT been the case, I KNOW I would have approached my concerns from a different and far less specific direction!
In my last relationship, my partner went without my knowledge to SEE my therapist on 3 separate occasions regarding issues HE was concerned about regarding OUR relationship. I did not find out about these clandestine meetings until "M" and I started couples therapy with Carol in a last-ditch attempt to salvage our relationship. It was only during those weeks that "M" told me in the presence of Carol of his visits to her. [needless to say I was both shocked and touched]. She, like Tony are both LSW's. I can recall several pervious attempted interventions on my behalf in which they contacted my then psychiatrist. HE never mentioned these calls to him, but my friends in trying to shock me, admitted they had called Dr. P. Based on these occurrences, I suppose I assumed that what I told Tony would similarly be kept "under wraps" and private as mentioned earlier.
Alice, I apologize for being long-winded. I felt it necessary to go into as much detail as possible - no doubt an automatic habit I've developed after the many years of therapy I've undergone. Therapists invariably want to hear ALL the details. LOL.
I don't intend to pursue this matter in any form with Tony. I simply promised "F" I would NEVER have/make contact again with Tony.
In the end however, what are YOUR THOUGHTS, Alice? Did I go too far? Was it inappropriate that I be concerned about medication advice, especially with my medical background and own personal psychiatric problems? [BTW, I'm a MICA or Dual Diagnosis patient].
Were "F" to see a dentist (since I no longer practice) who gave him some questionable advice, should I question that dentist's views? This could be considered when looking at a DISEASE process whether it be physical or mental health-related I should think. Would I be wrong to question "F's" Internist for not treating "F's" hypertension with medication if it was clearly indicated??? if "F" used illicit drugs, something which most MD's today really don't follow up on - look at the overuse of prescribed narcotics which are practically handed out like candy? - would it be wrong of me to inform said doctor of my concerns for "F" and if he even was AWARE of the problem??
Perhaps, if necessary, you can clarify this for me Alice. Explain the distinction. When is it appropriate (if ever) to call a therapist regarding the treatment a loved one is getting - be it parent, sibling or child?
And most importantly is it both appropriate and necessary to DISCLOSE, verbatim, a conversation held between doctor and "significant other/loved one"? [almost as a means or form of SHOCK therapy?]. I question Tony's agenda, ethics and motive for having done this and am very interested to know what your opinion is and anyone else who cares to reply.
Thanks very much for your help in this matter.
I will be eagerly awaiting your reply.
Sincerely,
"KenM"

I'm not, Alice, and I'm not sure you meant to post this in this forum, but just thought I'd offer my insight on the subject, if you're interested. If I were to talk to my husband's therapist, I would assume that the therapist would tell my husband that I call and at least summarize what my concerns were. If my husband were to talk to my T, I would fully expect my T to tell me. I expect my T to be on MY side and not keep secrets from me, including the fact that my partner had called to express concerns.

It is a standard rule that phone calls received are discussed with the client. He doesnt have to hold confidentiality related to what you say, only what F says. And with it being Fs treatment he is entitled to the information. I always tell my clients "I am not your secret keeper" when it comes to things like this.

[anilam]

No Alice either but since you've posted it here...

F didn't know you and his T have this phone session beforehand? Not OK- I too would feel betrayed had my T talk to my family behind my back (and would immediately stop seeing my T). The T shouldn't agree to such "session". Telling him afterwards yeah, it's at least stg but still too little too late .
I think you're too involved in your partner's therapy- it's not yours it's his (was great of you that you helped him search for a T but that should be it). If you two want to deal with stg together you can either go with him to his session (or he could go to yours) or find a MT.
Hate this whole concept of going behind one's back. Keeping secrets not that good for a RS.

[wotchermuggle]

I think the better course of action would have been to talk to your partner about your concerns, and if need be, ask your partner if you could go with him to a session to better understand the situation.

I don't like this idea of calling someone else's therapist.

[BlessedRhiannon]

I understand that you think you were doing the best thing by calling your partner's therapist to talk about issues you were concerned about. You feel you have lots of experience with therapy and medicine and wanted things to go smoothly for your partner, and wanted to make sure things were being addressed that you felt needed to be addressed.

Here's the thing, though. It's not YOUR therapy. It's your partner's. That means that they get to determine what is addressed in therapy, not you. It also means that the therapist holds confidentiality with your partner, not you. It was right for the therapist to tell your partner about the phone call. It would probably have been a more appropriate action for you to talk to your partner about your concerns, or ask for a joint session with the therapist, where you could bring these things up.

In regards to the issue of your previous partner seeing your therapist, and that not being disclosed...well, they were seeing the therapist for their own therapy. Not to talk about your therapy. The difference is that you were both clients and both working on your own things.

As far as questioning medical advice given to your partner by any medical practitioner, well, sure, you can bring that up WITH YOUR PARTNER. It's not really your place to contact the practitioner instead of talking to your partner, unless you are a caregiver or medical proxy for your partner. Most medical practitioners won't give out any patient information or discuss patient care with someone not part of the immediate family or listed as a medical proxy.

I think the key issue here is communication...you've chosen to go around your partner rather than communicating directly with them. In relationships, direct communication tends to work better.

[emptyspace]

You are totally out of line. "F" is not a child or a dependent, "F" is an adult. "F" is capable of making informed decisions. "F's" therapy is not your therapy. Your questioning "F's" treatment without talking with him is devaluing his therapeutic relationship. It seems there are major communication problems in your relationship and BOUNDARY issues, if you can not discuss your concerns with your partner, but instead go behind "F's" back and talk to his therapist. Tony is actually being ethical and honest to a client, "F." You are the one with questionable motives, if you are trying to manipulate "F's" therapist based on what you want.

[gaia67]

Originally Posted by anilam

No Alice either but since you've posted it here...

F didn't know you and his T have this phone session beforehand? Not OK- I too would feel betrayed had my T talk to my family behind my back (and would immediately stop seeing my T). The T shouldn't agree to such "session". Telling him afterwards yeah, it's at least stg but still too little too late .
I think you're too involved in your partner's therapy- it's not yours it's his (was great of you that you helped him search for a T but that should be it). If you two want to deal with stg together you can either go with him to his session (or he could go to yours) or find a MT.
Hate this whole concept of going behind one's back. Keeping secrets not that good for a RS.

I may be wrong but it read to me more like F's T was listening to Ken's concerns, rather than discussing F with Ken, kwim?

[anilam]

Originally Posted by gaia67

I may be wrong but it read to me more like F's T was listening to Ken's concerns, rather than discussing F with Ken, kwim?

Yeah, I got that feeling too. However, T talking with my partner and agreeing on a phone session without telling me, would be enough for me to end the therapy... No matter he 'just' listened to my partner's concerns. Maybe it's just me but I need my T to be on my side 100%, NO SECRETS. (trust is still a very new and frightening concept for me). If he knows he's talking to someone I know I would except him to tell me (even if the person wants to enter his own therapy with him). My T= mine.

[CantExplain]

I would have expected something like this:

Tony: F's therapy is really between him and me. But if you want to contribute, why don't you arrange with F to come and see me together?