[archipelago]

After years of working very closely with my therapist, he finally uttered the words that he loved me. It was in a larger context, where I had said that I understood that he couldn't actually say that.

So now I'm wondering if any one else has had their therapist say this powerful word.

This isn't erotic or even transference. It's a built up mutual feeling that is steeped in deep respect and appreciation.

[Leah123]

My therapist has said a couple times she sees me through the loving eyes of a mother. Not quite "I love you" but... something, and that she cares very deeply for me.

I would love to hear "I love you" one of these days, but not holding my breath. (Wonders if it might be a little scary though.)

[ScrewedUpMe]

My T hasn't said that although I would really like her to!

She has said over and over again that she cares deeply about me, that I am special to her etc. I once said that I wished she was my mum and she replied with, sometimes I wish I was your mum too.

[archipelago]

It's really interesting to hear about this. I wonder if therapist do feel love but are afraid that saying the word would confuse their clients. And they've been trained I guess not to cross that boundary. Still it seems that they do find ways to express what would go by the name just in other words.

[Daeva]

My T won't even say she cares for me. Well once it was kind of brought up, I was saying how much I felt alone and that no one cared and go, "Well rationally I know that Robin cares and that you care cause you didn't have to come visit me in the psych ward." and she went 'mmmhmm.' Thats as close as we got.

[Leah123]

Oh yes, love is definitely a loaded word, in life and in therapy even moreso. Many types of therapy wouldn't allow for that type of love at all, really, it could be seen to compromise the therapist's objectivity, the client's feeling of security, etc.

I'm in what you might call psychodynamic therapy though, therapy attuned to the relationship w/my therapist, and I perceive it as a particularly warm and caring type of therapeutic relationship, compared to my experience with psychoanalysis and my understanding of other popular forms like CBT.

Not to say there's never love in other types of therapy, but I don't think it's at all typical to express it as such or get that deep.

[GeorgiaGirl413]

No therapist has ever said to me that they loved me and I hope that they never do. I wouldn't like the pressure that would put on me. My last T did tell me that she had "prayed for me" and when I had an appointment with her on the day after the anniversary of my son's death she said to me "I thought about you all day yesterday." My current T was kind enough to call me when I had to cancel an appointment because I was in the hospital (with a medical issue) and even said "you can call me on my cell over the week-end if you need to talk. I know being sick is rough for you." All these things let me know that they cared about me. I do not want to hear the word love.

[GeorgiaGirl413]

Originally Posted by archipelago

It's really interesting to hear about this. I wonder if therapist do feel love but are afraid that saying the word would confuse their clients. And they've been trained I guess not to cross that boundary. Still it seems that they do find ways to express what would go by the name just in other words.

I don't think they are afraid to say it, I think they know not to say it. At least the good ones do. Apparently, from what I am reading here lately, there are a lot ot T's out there who aren't afraid at all to declare their love for their client's no matter how damaging it might be.

[Daeva]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaGirl413

I don't think they are afraid to say it, I think they know not to say it. At least the good ones do. Apparently, from what I am reading here lately, there are a lot ot T's out there who aren't afraid at all to declare their love for their client's no matter how damaging it might be.

This is true. In my ethics class we are taught to never ever say that word. Not only because it may 'confuse' the patient, but it could also confuse the therapist, if counter-transference ever occurs, furthermore it changes the dynamic of the relationship. And then the patient has to deal with the pressure and what you mean by it etc. It's best to avoid the word at all costs. It's a very inviting word and not in a good way. It can lead to a lot of hurt feelings, misunderstandings and miscommunications and can actually disrupt the therapy.

[Leah123]

Here is an article I like very much by a therapist whose writings and orientation I also respect, about a healthy, healing type of love and commitment in therapy where attachment issues are present: Attachment Theory and the Healing Psychotherapy Relationship

I like this quote from a therapist who replied to the article also:

"I’m a therapist myself and I couldn’t agree more. You’re brave to say what no one dares say: after years and years of sharing the real-world, real-time pain of a client’s innermost struggles, real love develops. Without the love, truly transformative therapy cannot occur; it’s not a true “attachment” relationship. In many client-therapist relationships, narcissism poses as “love” which leads to all sorts of boundary violations, sexualizations, etc. that give real love a bad name. Let’s make the distinction. Love is good; narcissism is not. Cheers to you for being brave enough to speak the truth, and Merry Christmas to you, too!"

I think the word just is so loaded it is hard to accept it in a therapeutic context for many: after all, a lot (certainly not all) of the reasons we're in therapy are a lack of proper love and loving relationship modeling from our families or significant others.

I'm reminded of the development of the character Spock in Star Trek (yes, I'm a Trekkie along with all my other issues). At the beginning of the series, the Vulcan steadfastly claimed to have no feelings, they were so dangerous to his identity, personal and professional identity, but over decades, as with Dr. Burgo whose article I posted above, and my own therapist, who has been in practice 20 years, they developed the awareness and capacity to manage the reality of emotions, including love. Anyhow, I digress perhaps. It's past my nap time.

[HealingTimes]

My T has said that she loves me. Like you say, it's not an emotional or sexual thing, but an intimate thing that goes with how closely we work together.
The 1st time she said it, i wondered what she wanted, what she was after, how i should respond etc.
but now i know i dont have to respond any specific way, and she doesnt expect or want anything from me, she was just saying how she felt at the time.

[archipelago]

I understand that traditionally their are boundaries about this type of expression, but I don't understand why it would be so taboo and thought to undermine the therapy. I guess I don't believe in the therapist's "objectivity." They are human and there is an affective component to the relationship. In the type of therapy I do the relationship is the main focus. Self-disclosure and transparency are considered important parts of the mutuality that is established, which fosters dignity and respect for each other. It seems inevitable that after years of such an intimate connection there would be feelings that if unexpressed would actually be lacking in authenticity. Love is a loaded word but with the care taken in therapy it is pretty clear what it means. I also don't see how it results in some kind of pressure. Maybe someone who gets that part can explain more.

[Daeva]

Pressure.

So lets use me as an example
I'm cutting. But my T said they loved me, what if they found out I was cutting and took that love away? I have to stop cutting, I can't show her, but what will I do without cutting? How will I release the emotions? I can't do this. I cut again, and I hate myself because I'm pathetic, how can T love this? She shouldn't love me, if she finds out I'm cutting she'll get mad. I can't tell her.

Not to mention how triggering it may be. Because say that happened, and I was sure she find out I was cutting and be mad and wouldn't love me anymore, cause in the past that's what happened in family. Not to mention it's messed up my C and I's relationship and has actually caused me more suffering. She didn't say love or whatever but she said she cared, and she knew when she said it that I thought of her as a mother figure etc, and now all I can do is long to be her daughter and deal with the pain of knowing that I will never have that and hating it and feeling lonely, and wanting to know if she feels the same. But I can't ask her because of the possibility of rejection. So I fantasize and I obsess over the relationship

[HealingTimes]

If you think about the definition of 'Love' the verb, it means 'a strong feeling of affection'. I think it's perfectly normal for a T to feel love for clients.

[Daeva]

I'm not saying that the T doesn't love their clients, this isn't even my personal view. Nor do I agree or disagree with it.
I'm just stating what I have been taught in my courses, and henceforth what other T's have been taught as well. I'm saying the basic rule/principle being taught is that you shouldn't say the L word.

I, personally, would love to hear my T say it.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by archipelago

also don't see how it results in some kind of pressure. Maybe someone who gets that part can explain more.

Because a lot of people don't use the word properly! Many of us grew up in families where love might mean:

1. A guilt trip: if you love me, you will.....
2. I love you so much, I can't help but sexually abuse you
3. I love you, but only if you act the way I tell you to
4. I love you (but then they act hateful)
5. I love you and want you to be with me forever, merged with me in an unhealthy way

Etc. etc. etc.

Definitely a loaded word, but I think it's more because the word is so misused.

[archipelago]

I see how the word "love" might be entangled if it is associated with specific kinds of love, like romantic love or parental love. Then there is baggage along with it. But if caring is an okay word and said so often, isn't it really just a substitute of the kind of love that humans feel for other humans they've grown to know deeply and become fond of?

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by archipelago

I see how the word "love" might be entangled if it is associated with specific kinds of love, like romantic love or parental love. Then there is baggage along with it. But if caring is an okay word and said so often, isn't it really just a substitute of the kind of love that humans feel for other humans they've grown to know deeply and become fond of?

You make your question seem as if it has a simple clear answer, but matters of the heart are so often not!

There are so many factors to consider, the power balance in therapy, the client's past experience with the word, the therapist's orientation and such.

I agree with you and think love is very important in my therapy, but I just know it's not at all straightforward in many cases.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Daeva

This is true. In my ethics class we are taught to never ever say that word. Not only because it may 'confuse' the patient, but it could also confuse the therapist, if counter-transference ever occurs, furthermore it changes the dynamic of the relationship. And then the patient has to deal with the pressure and what you mean by it etc. It's best to avoid the word at all costs. It's a very inviting word and not in a good way. It can lead to a lot of hurt feelings, misunderstandings and miscommunications and can actually disrupt the therapy.

With respect, a lot of what they teach in school is out of touch with reality.

My wife went to teachers college and she says most of what she was taught was irrelevant, wrong or dangerous. Everything of importance she learned about teaching she learned BY teaching.

I am sure it is the same at T school.

[archipelago]

Yes, you are right. I started the thread by saying that this happened after years and years of a close relationship and that it surprised me because I had said that I didn't think he could say that. He has used appropriate caution so it wasn't used without a lot of consideration. It wasn't simple at all. And we did spend time clarifying what it exactly meant so there was no confusion or reading into it.

I liked your post about the attachment therapist. It seems to indicate that therapist do restrain themselves when the therapeutic relationship can include love as a healing and transformative part of the therapy.

Perhaps I should also add that I am a Buddhist so my sense of love is more like "loving-kindness" a very human and more neutral sense of respect and honor for others, especially those who are suffering.

[Daeva]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

With respect, a lot of what they teach in school is out of touch with reality.

My wife went to teachers college and she says most of what she was taught was irrelevant, wrong or dangerous. Everything of importance she learned about teaching she learned BY teaching.

I am sure it is the same at T school.

I know this. I'm not saying it's right, what we're being taught, or wrong. I was just commenting on the fact that we are taught that.

I personally would be iffy about the L word, so long as it's clarified, and what not and the patient is okay and what not, its fine, but I personally, would be very careful. I would love my T to say it to me. But I know in this point in our relationship it wouldn't be healthy, it would make me more dependent. That's just me though.

[Daeva]

Also, I think this is the first healthy conversation I've had all day, so thank you for this thread.

[IndestructibleGirl]

I've only been with my T for four months, but I knew I loved her pretty early on so I started telling her in writing. It's a simple warm love born of affection and appreciation for who she is as a human being. I was extremely lucky to have had a great mother, and I recognize when people care about me, and she did - so I started to love her. I had a bit of a shakey time for a few days when I felt like it was wrong or fake or just transference to experience love for her, a professional person, but we had a conversation (the only time we've actually verbalized stuff about the L word ) and she was totally calm and said something like, well feelings can develop in the emotionally intimate kind of relationship we're in.

My T signs off messages with things like "much love" and a couple of times in emails has said things like "you have plenty of love from me" and "I love ya no matter what" so I think has managed to convey positive and caring feelings towards me in a professional appropriate manner - she has never spoken the words, and I don't need her to I hope as my confidence grows in myself as a person of worth, I'm able to say to her "I love you" face to face, without worrying that it means nothing because I'm too damaged for it to mean anything.

[archipelago]

I was at first reluctant to post about this since I do know it is a controversial topic. But I have learned a lot through the conversation and appreciate all the responses. I'm in training to be a therapist so it is something I too have been taught is not something you do. And I would be quite hesitant and careful actually, no matter what I've seemed to present here. I'm just testing it out to see what people think and feel. Now I have different perspectives to consider which I'll continue to carry with me.

[Yogix]

Something I said made my T laughed so hard and she popped out with "OMG I love you." It was cute

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