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  #26  
Old Mar 13, 2014, 04:29 AM
AllyIsHopeful AllyIsHopeful is offline
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FIRST of all, one million, trillion hugs to you.
I'm sorry sweetie...You have every right to feel this way, in my opinion. The situation seems so strange. I could relate to the sudden change in dynamic, and how it feels so disorienting like a huge slap in the face; but your situation sounds even bigger, which I can't even imagine! I really feel bad that you have to feel this way...
I could see that she probably has a method to her madness in the way she is handling everything. There is probably some lesson behind all of this that is hard to see now, but maybe it will begin to make sense once the pain passes. Perhaps she feels like you are ready to move on to a new level of progress? This could be a fantastic sign! Unfortunately those new levels are super painful and hard to adjust to for a while. I hope that's what the case is.

I'm glad she is allowing in between contact again! You clearly explained your emotions about the situation in your OP, maybe include some of these lines in an email to her? You could even say it is for the purpose of discussing next session...Be honest and tell her your struggling adjusting and processing.

I hope things feel better very soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl View Post
I never thought I'd see the day where I'd say this, but I think I might have to quit therapy to stop hurting myself.

I had my session tonight and it was like being in the room with a different person. My therapist said she's going to challenge me on everything wrong I do and this seemed to take the form of being very...blunt.

Loads of things she said stung When I was talking about having thoughts of suicide, she said something like 'stop making excuses, don't tell me you can't help being drawn to it'. After an hour and a half she asked me what I was taking in from the session, and I said 'that I have to redirect my energy into more positive channels' and she told me quite sharply that that was an insult to her 20 years of therapy experience and that I was being sarcastic. I don't think I was being sarcastic. I was over-simplifying, sure, because I didn't really understand the points she was making. Then she told me I needed to start taking responsibility for myself, and this was super unfortunate because that's pretty much the last thing my mother said to me before I cut contact with her at the weekend. She also said she was working really hard with me and I wasn't doing my fair share, my 50%, and this confused me because I've asked before if I should be working harder and she's always said no absolutely not.

Everything just was wrong. We're supposed to see each other for one two hour session a week now with no contact in between. I've just done three months intensive work, about six hours a week with as much texting and emailing and calling between. I'm so grateful for all the good, but the sudden change in contact ****ing hard. She said she was pissed off at herself for the way she had been working with me until now, that she doesn't work with others like that and our dynamic is very different. Obviously, the dynamic I loved, she disliked

It feels like once I started to really grow confident she'd be there, she whipped the rug out from under me. I don't know what to do. I don't know if I want to do one session a week with her. I was so frozen in my session tonight and the more I felt attacked the more afraid I was of saying anything and shut down.

After, I left a voicemail saying I felt abandoned, and basically so hurt at having her ripped away from me after having a taste of what it felt like to have somebody there - I apologized for breaking the boundary but wasn't sorry for saying it. She messaged me then basically saying well done for fighting for myself (I don't know if I want to have to fight for myself against my therapist though) and that I can email as much as I like. But I almost can't trust it. I don't know. I feel acutely disloyal even writing this, but I need to post this here to see if PC thinks I'm being too sensitive and just need a kick up the *** and to stop feeling uncomfortable and upset I can't think straight.
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  #27  
Old Mar 13, 2014, 04:40 AM
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  #28  
Old Mar 13, 2014, 08:15 AM
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I'm SO sorry! I had a similar experience with my T a few months ago...your experience reminds me of it. Look up projective identification. There is a thread recently posted on here about it, too. It's more than just projection but its a bit complicated so I don't feel competent enough to explain it very well.

I told my T how angry I became due to what happened (total change in demeanor) and he sincerely apologized. It took 3 months, but he finally went into a bit more detail to explain some of what he thought happened. In my situation, he got caught up in my complaint that I felt badly about myself not making enough "progress" and whatnot. It was more than that but i don't want to get into it here. But this i do know: I was never blaming him and directly said as much. It's so complicated but shouldn't be /:
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  #29  
Old Mar 13, 2014, 10:02 AM
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  #30  
Old Mar 13, 2014, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elektra_ View Post
wow so the attitude didnt come from ur reply? she just started ur appointment like that?? how did last session end? well if shes contradicting herself u need to confront her.
Yep - it was difficult between us from early on in the session. Things went downhill when I was candid about some suicidal thoughts.

I have brought it up now, and we're going to talk about it in the next session. Thank you for your thoughts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ListenMoreTalkLess View Post
My quick take on it is that it might be very helpful to you to really dig into how you felt in response to what she said and talk to her concretely and openly about it. it sounds to me like she welcomes you to do this, based on her response to your voicemail. Take what she says at face value and have the contact she offered.

Part of what you said about how you were happy with your progress but she is obviously not, that seems like kind of a cool relationship issue that also might have lots of work to do within. It reminded me of how sometimes married couples reach this place-- I'm happy with the marriage, well, I'm not. A conversation about why you are each feeling the way you are about your progress will probably really help resolve this. To do that, you have to bring back to her all the feelings you are sharing here. But it sounds to me like she is willing to listen to what you have to say, and adjust her side of the street accordingly. That's a pretty good thing for a T to be able to do. But if you don't share your reactions with her, she won't be able to adjust any further.
Yes, she is really open to listening to what I have to say. I let her know I was panicking and feeling betrayed and she apologized, appreciated she's been a bit too tough, and thanked me for challenging her and said we can sort it out. You are right that a thorough conversation is needed by me, so we've agreed that we'll talk about it properly face to face next week, and I can send as many emails as I want. So I don't feel bereft anymore. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by feralkittymom View Post
Yikes....what an awful experience. I can't say if your T is competent or not, but she clearly believes she has skewed your therapy in a way that she feels necessary to fix. I wish she had worked this out and stabilized her emotions about it with a colleague before meeting with you. But it does sound like she's looking to meet you in the process, so I think it's worth it to keep going and try to hash things out. I hope you can be super clear with her about your perceptions, and that you can get the clarity about the process that you deserve.
Thank you, yes I think unpicking and unravelling it should be possible now. I feel much calmer because when I pointed out how bad I felt she didn't scoff or ignore or get exasperated or go crazy at me. I was so, so afraid of that. Good ole' transference throwing itself into the mix, I guess.
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  #31  
Old Mar 13, 2014, 06:58 PM
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I wouldn't even call it transference, to me, though I understand I don't have all the details, your reaction was totally understandable given how she changed the parameters of the contact so recently, and let her exasperation show through in a place that's supposed to feel safer, and seemed to make a major flip-flop as to how she thought you were progressing in therapy. I'm sure she had her reasons, but don't discount your perceptions. I'm so glad you're going to talk it out. I hope it heals better than ever. That's the only upside of ruptures sometimes.
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  #32  
Old Mar 13, 2014, 07:08 PM
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IndestructibleGirl IndestructibleGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingtogetthere View Post
I'm so sorry that you got that kind of response from your therapist. Do you think this was a moment or sessions x2 of countertransference for her, especially, because she is having a few trials in her personal life? Hopefully both of you can talk about the past 2 sessions. You are saying you are not ready for less contact, and, now, even less. and, your therapist is saying it's time to spread your wings. I think it should be a joint decision, so hopefully you will have the words and the strength to put your immediate needs on the table.

Whatever is happening is about her, not about you, Girl. I'm sending positive thoughts your way.

GTGT
Thank you. I think I do wonder about countertransference at times, and transference, because part of me is sceptical and just thinks the past is always present? And that transference/ counter t, while yes it does happen, doesn't necessarily happen any more with therapists than with anyone else in our lives?

I actually agree that it is time to spread my wings, because there is a lot I want to do, and feel ready to start doing in terms of my wider life and I'm excited about that. I feel ready to start living the life I want for myself - not totally ready, not infallibly confident - but confident enough to take big strides towards it. I think I want to know I still have her support and have that connection there. I got so much out of being consistently welcomed by her...it was honestly the most healing thing I have ever experienced. And maybe I need to veer off in a slightly new direction now, but I'm still not ready to lose her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopelessly Hopeful View Post
FIRST of all, one million, trillion hugs to you.
I'm sorry sweetie...You have every right to feel this way, in my opinion. The situation seems so strange. I could relate to the sudden change in dynamic, and how it feels so disorienting like a huge slap in the face; but your situation sounds even bigger, which I can't even imagine! I really feel bad that you have to feel this way...
I could see that she probably has a method to her madness in the way she is handling everything. There is probably some lesson behind all of this that is hard to see now, but maybe it will begin to make sense once the pain passes. Perhaps she feels like you are ready to move on to a new level of progress? This could be a fantastic sign! Unfortunately those new levels are super painful and hard to adjust to for a while. I hope that's what the case is.

I'm glad she is allowing in between contact again! You clearly explained your emotions about the situation in your OP, maybe include some of these lines in an email to her? You could even say it is for the purpose of discussing next session...Be honest and tell her your struggling adjusting and processing.

I hope things feel better very soon.
Thank you. Yes I'm trying to be as honest as can be, and it's working even insofar as I feel listened to and respected and not like a freak anymore about it. Last night was really crazy because she was angry at me for invalidating my own needs, and I felt I really needed her not to limit our contact, but felt ashamed for needing her so much, then tried to remember that my needs are okay, but then felt well why is she changing things...that was a fun merry-go-round to be on Thankfully, I'm off it now because we did talk a little about it, and can do the finer details of the conversation next week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewilled View Post
I'm SO sorry! I had a similar experience with my T a few months ago...your experience reminds me of it. Look up projective identification. There is a thread recently posted on here about it, too. It's more than just projection but its a bit complicated so I don't feel competent enough to explain it very well.

I told my T how angry I became due to what happened (total change in demeanor) and he sincerely apologized. It took 3 months, but he finally went into a bit more detail to explain some of what he thought happened. In my situation, he got caught up in my complaint that I felt badly about myself not making enough "progress" and whatnot. It was more than that but i don't want to get into it here. But this i do know: I was never blaming him and directly said as much. It's so complicated but shouldn't be /:
Oh Freewilled, I'm sorry you had something similar! It is astonishingly disorientating! Not to mention a bewildering head ****. I am so glad you repaired it. Are you fully back to normal now?

Must look at the projective identification thread. Thank you.
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  #33  
Old Mar 13, 2014, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leah123 View Post
I wouldn't even call it transference, to me, though I understand I don't have all the details, your reaction was totally understandable given how she changed the parameters of the contact so recently, and let her exasperation show through in a place that's supposed to feel safer, and seemed to make a major flip-flop as to how she thought you were progressing in therapy. I'm sure she had her reasons, but don't discount your perceptions. I'm so glad you're going to talk it out. I hope it heals better than ever. That's the only upside of ruptures sometimes.
Oh I'm definitely not discounting my perceptions! I'm far too stubborn for onw thing and also, ironically, she's the one who taught me to not rubbish my own feelings I will be making notes with the things I thought were off in bullet points, and bringing them to session to make sure I can organize my thoughts and articulate my feelings exactly.

Why I mention transference is because I realized today that I was so afraid she'd banish me forever if I kicked back in any way. I think a lot of the stuff she was saying was reminding me of REALLY bad things. Like rows with my mother.
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How many cares one loses when one decides not to be something but to be someone
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  #34  
Old Mar 13, 2014, 07:33 PM
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I think we are back to good....It definitely changed things between us but I feel closer to him. I think it helped to repair the rupture and everything. But ****, it sure took a long time! It helps that my T is very introspective and willing to look at himself. I think he uses his reactions or feelings in session to gage what's going on with me.

When I went into the next session, I let him have it lol Well, I let him have it in my quiet, nonassertive way. In my mind, I told him off. But I'm sure I was much more diplomatic in real life
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  #35  
Old Mar 13, 2014, 08:42 PM
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Wow. What a horrible experience with your T. Glad to hear you are a bit better. It does sound like there is some counter transference going on here. It sounds like she doesn't think she's been helping you progress fast enough and is really frustrated with herself and decided shed been too gentle and needed to go all commando on you. Talk about a shock for you!

Two things you mentioned here I would tell her:
- that you do feel like you are making progress even if it isn't as fast as she'd like
- that you don't understand what specifically she thinks she was doing that wasn't helpful for you

I one had a life coach who didn't think I was progressing fast enough but I knew it would be slow going and was happy with my progress. I wish I had told him that because he decided we should do counseling instead, which I didn't want to do then, and shortly after he realized he shouldn't be counseling any clients and terminated all his counseling clients. Yeesh.

Another thing is from what I read here on PC some Ts seem to not allow clients to talk about sui feelings or if they do it is very limited. They seem to not be terribly well trained to handle it for fear of encouraging/enabling the client to go thru with it.

It does sound like you have a good T relationship overall so I think you and T will work it thru. Take good care and good luck with the job interview.
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  #36  
Old Mar 14, 2014, 07:40 AM
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I hope you are feeling better now, even if it's just a little bit

What happened to you is pretty disgraceful, all I want to do is give you a hug! Something similar happened with my former therapist; the first few weeks I started seeing her, she was very open to me emailing her, and sounded/acted like she cared when I emailed her in crisis at one point. But then after about our 6th session, she started acting weirdly... I took a break from it for a while, then went back in early December. She wouldn't allow emails, and even if I did email her, she would reply with hardly anything or in a detached way. Then instead of talking about my problems like we had before, she started getting me to do worksheets. And I mean a lot of worksheets - I had to take most of them home. Things changed drastically from there on - it was like she had completely detached herself from me and our appointments. Like she'd gone 'cold' and didn't care anymore like she used to...

I think it's safe to say going to therapy actually started hurting at that point rather than helping - I was anxious about every session, and over obsessed about it at the end. I dreaded going. I hated having to finish, because it hurt so much, but hey, that the NHS :/ But I think in the long run it will do me good

I hope things get better for you soon Here for you anytime xx
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  #37  
Old Mar 14, 2014, 07:55 AM
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I know, others have probably said all there is to say about this and I too feel very sad for you that this happened and understand your confusion, hurt and frustration. She sounds burnt out, angry and frustrated. And that doesn't help you at all!

I just quickly want to pick up on something... You said she has been seeing you for free for a while now.
In my opinion this is almost ALWAYS a red flag. It's unethical for many reasons. And one of the reasons being the way you feel now and the added feeling you have of you "bleeding her dry"
Not paying for sessions even a very low fee of a few dollars leaves you vulnerable in many many ways. Perhaps she thinks that she has done you a "favor" and you haven't returned it by working harder. It's a wrong thought on her part, but T's are human and this could be what she is feeling.
And it leaves you absolutely powerless because if you were to complain to anyone, the issue of not having paid for the sessions, the email or phone contact in between sessions.. it would make things very complicated...
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  #38  
Old Mar 14, 2014, 12:39 PM
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Actually it isn't unethical for a T to see a client for free. Some Ts reserve space in their schedule to take on pro bono clients just like lawyers do.
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  #39  
Old Mar 14, 2014, 12:49 PM
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It is a fairly common practice in the US to do pro bono work to assist people who otherwise would be unable to feceive services. Not unethical at all. Actually considered a positive sign.
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  #40  
Old Mar 14, 2014, 02:18 PM
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I think it is better to charge a nominal fee, just to keep the relationship professional. And it gives you an opportunity to talk about money.
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  #41  
Old Mar 14, 2014, 04:42 PM
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Wow. This won't be helpful but she sounds awful why should you pick up the mess she is making of things. Run. Find someone who can handle themselves.
  #42  
Old Mar 14, 2014, 08:50 PM
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Wait, how is it that you know she recently broke up with her partner?
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  #43  
Old Mar 15, 2014, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Cherbiej View Post
Wait, how is it that you know she recently broke up with her partner?


Because she told me! I'm not a stalker
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  #44  
Old Mar 15, 2014, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl View Post


Because she told me! I'm not a stalker
Thats weird. That she told you. Your not her therapist!!
  #45  
Old Mar 15, 2014, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by StarShank View Post
Thats weird. That she told you. Your not her therapist!!
Well, she didn't go into details. it was just a remark in passing. I don't remember exactly why she mentioned it but it was relevant to whatever we were discussing. I don't actually think it's weird - as far as I know, different therapists have different levels of self disclosure, and that's entirely up to them, no?
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How many cares one loses when one decides not to be something but to be someone
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~ Simone de Beauvoir
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  #46  
Old Mar 15, 2014, 07:11 PM
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IndestructibleGirl IndestructibleGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Amelia112 View Post
I just quickly want to pick up on something... You said she has been seeing you for free for a while now.
In my opinion this is almost ALWAYS a red flag. It's unethical for many reasons. And one of the reasons being the way you feel now and the added feeling you have of you "bleeding her dry"
Not paying for sessions even a very low fee of a few dollars leaves you vulnerable in many many ways. Perhaps she thinks that she has done you a "favor" and you haven't returned it by working harder. It's a wrong thought on her part, but T's are human and this could be what she is feeling.
And it leaves you absolutely powerless because if you were to complain to anyone, the issue of not having paid for the sessions, the email or phone contact in between sessions.. it would make things very complicated...
With respect I disagree. Even if I decided never to go back to my therapist again, the sheer amount of progress I have made in the time with her, including the sizable chunk of time she has very generously seen me for free, has been profound. Life changing. Anyway I love her and am optimistic we can resolve next session.

Yes I absolutely felt like oh ****, I've taken too much. But tbh that faded quite quickly on speaking to her the next day, and on balance that one bit of unpleasantness pales in comparison to the good I have been given.

No, it is far from ideal to be seen for free BUT I would not cut off my nose to spite my face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CantExplain View Post
I think it is better to charge a nominal fee, just to keep the relationship professional. And it gives you an opportunity to talk about money.
This is fine and well if you have even pin money left to play around with after paying essentials. I literally, at the moment, have minus money - my income does not cover the basics. Financially I am sinking rapidly, my therapist knows this, and refused to take money from me once she knew how much of a pauper I am.
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How many cares one loses when one decides not to be something but to be someone
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  #47  
Old Mar 15, 2014, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl View Post
different therapists have different levels of self disclosure, and that's entirely up to them, no?
I hope they will take into account the needs of the patient.
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  #48  
Old Mar 16, 2014, 03:04 AM
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IndestructibleGirl IndestructibleGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by CantExplain View Post
I hope they will take into account the needs of the patient.
You are quite right, I agree. I should have made that clearer in what I said.
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