Help with changing dynamic?

Can someone help me? I’m going through a bad patch and don’t know which way to turn tonight.

I’ve been seeing my therapist for about two years and generally feel good about the work we do and the progress – though not always strictly linear – I’ve made with him. I have real respect and affection for him, our warm, engaging dynamic inspires me, and I’m able to talk through difficult things with him.

I’ve been feeling the past few weeks as though something’s changed in him. He seems more distant, a bit less present or less warm (not really sure which), maybe more professional or clinical, if that makes sense. It’s subtle, but it feels very real to me.

There have been other times when I’ve felt a subtle withdrawal. It usually isn’t there the next week, so I chalk it up to his having been tired or preoccupied or our just not clicking that day. When it’s lasted more than a week, I’ve brought it up and he’s responded with some surprise that he hadn’t felt it and hadn’t intended it, and that’s reassured me that the good working rapport was still intact.

But my bringing it up today didn’t go as well as that. It didn’t go badly, just seemed cooler than before. I can’t even really put my finger on the problem. I can go into details about our conversation if anyone thinks that might be helpful. Generalizing, though, I felt that there’s a distance there that wasn’t there before. I’m finding it surprisingly painful, and I’m deeply depressive since the session.

It might be a chicken and egg thing: I’ve been sliding into a depression for some weeks (I fall into one every few months), so maybe I’m perceiving every tic of his brow as a sign of irritation, repulsion and doom because I'm in the pit where I feel irritating, repulsive and doomed. But I’m feeling like what I’ve perceived to be the change in our dynamic is actually what’s making me feel depressed this time. I don’t feel I’ve progressed enough to be able to tolerate a withdrawal of his warmth. Was I just imagining the past dynamic? I feel surreal and scared.

Has anyone had a similar experience? Any advice about how to open up and improve this discussion with him? Any advice about how to get through the pain and depression? It’s another full week until my next session. Might as well be a year.

I think the person is human, like you. Good days and bad days. The discussions are about you not making him a new friend or dating. Take time to talk about you and request ideas to help yourself.

Thanks, LaborIntensive. I think maybe my use of the word 'warmth' might be open to misinterpretation. I actually don't consider us to be friends, let alone lovers. I've fantasized from time to time about both, but I feel quite able to keep that in the playful realm of fantasy. What I mean, though, is a warm engagement within the working relationship - a sense of interest, concern and value - that I don't want to do without.

I experienced very deep depression that I brought with me into the first couple of years of therapy. My T was very supportive, with a lot of reaching out to me. During periodic slides later on, I found he more often observed the depression, but was less active in reaching out to me. I realized he was waiting for me to reach toward him; to engage with him rather than withdraw. There was a method to it--to have me experience finding my own strength which he would then support.

Sometimes I reached out but Madame T did not reach far enough back. Or so I felt.

Thank you all very much – your responses are helping me feel better.

FKM – your story is very encouraging. I could see my therapist being wise - not actually withdrawn - in that way. Were you aware of his method at the time, or did you also initially experience his not reaching out as actively as a perplexing withdrawal? Did you discuss what you felt with him at the time?

CE – the discrepancy in reaching is a good way to describe it. That’s how I’ve been feeling lately, and it’s quite different from what I perceive to be our usual equal reaching or, in my most depressed moments, his reaching more. I'm sorry your similar experience hurt you.

What all of your responses show me is that I don't think I'm ready to be the one to reach more. That's quite revealing. And will be interesting to talk about next week.

I'm sorry you're noticing a distancing occurring between you and T - if you've been used to a certain warmth and open interaction that must be pretty ground shifting, and I get how the fact of his seeming difference is what's causing your depression and not vice versa.

It's very easy to assume it's your perceptions that are skewed and he hasn't changed, especially if he maintains he has noticed nothing. In my experience Ts do change (for a zillion different reasons) and don't always acknowledge or even admit it. I suggest you make a real point of trying to talk to him about this, about how you're feeling and what you're seeing as changes in him. And keep talking even if he seems to refuse to validate what you're saying. If there is no change in him, then it's still valuable that you be able to work through why you perceive changes.

Hope you get some resolution next session.

Sometimes I've 'put' T at a distance because I needed her there.
We can't be sure here whats going on. It's best you bring it up.
You'll know in your gut if the answer you receive is right.

I didn't notice him responding differently at first. What I noticed was my own feelings of sinking, sadness, hopelessness, and withdrawal, but I didn't know where they came from. I think if my T had jumped in, we may not have discovered the origin. When I could articulate those feelings, it led to recognizing a transferential abandonment. My T responded to the original sense of abandonment, rather than the current depression. So it may not be a need for you to reach toward him, but to reach into yourself to articulate your feelings and then explore what the origins may be.

ETA: In that discussion, you both may see ways his action/reaction contributed, or not.

Thanks, everyone. Your responses are very supportive and give me a lot to think about.

It’s good advice to keep trying to talk to him about it, and to keep talking until I feel some resolution. I do so much ruminating about my sessions that I don't always trust my gut anymore. The best way through that confusion is to talk and listen.

I think I’m pretty open and frank in my sessions, but not so much where talking about him/us is concerned. I’m afraid I’ll bother him or disturb the dynamic, which I value so highly. I know there are historical things worth looking at there. We touch on not trusting that love or care will be reliable, for example, in other contexts, but not really where they concern the working relationship.

I felt I started off down the right road at this week’s session, bringing up my sense that his attitude had changed towards me, but it went spinning off into a somewhat shallow discussion about clients having a natural curiosity about their therapists, which I thought missed the point and also didn’t really need saying. I took a few more stabs but felt very dispirited and switched the subject.

The reasonable part of my brain recognizes that so far he’s been nothing but caring, professional, reliable, and unflappable, so while he might well be contributing to the distance I’m sensing, I can see how some of my bad feeling (‘sinking’ is perfect) might also be coming from within myself.

I’m very attached to my therapist. I also have a history of leaving things I care deeply about. To enter the subject more deeply with him could certainly improve the work, not damage it, so perhaps I’m the one pulling away, preferring not to risk any further attachment, on the principle that the more attached you are the greater the pain of the ‘certain’ loss.

Ouch. Definitely food for thought. I’ll try to stay with this uncomfortable topic instead of running away. Thanks!

I’m very attached to my therapist. I also have a history of leaving things I care deeply about. To enter the subject more deeply with him could certainly improve the work, not damage it, so perhaps I’m the one pulling away, preferring not to risk any further attachment, on the principle that the more attached you are the greater the pain of the ‘certain’ loss.

Big insight here. It sounds like your T is comfortable with transference, so if you can talk about your history of pulling away, and that you suspect you may be doing that in your relationship with him, it could bring tremendous gains. Whenever we talk with a T about stuff outside our relationship with them, it's second hand. Valuable, but still at a distance and the challenge becomes for the T to bridge that distance. When we can bring the past into the present relationship in the room, it's immediately accessible for both of us. A lot of healing can come from that!

So what were the circumstances surrounding the other times you felt a subtle withdrawal? And what about the conversation/discussion where he brings up clients having a natural curiosity about their t's? Seems out of left field to me but it's probably taken out of context. So what were you talking about?

If I remember right, from my experience with my ex-t so long ago, he would become distant - and this is just my perception of it - to motivate me to work harder. If he stayed warm and fuzzy all the time, what would motivate me to change anything? I'd just want to stay in that warm/fuzzy place all day long. So he would say things like - I've taken you as far as a I can, and then he would back off or threaten to pass me off to another t. He could have just been stuck as far as ideas with what to do with me or how to work with me. But really, I think there comes a time - and if you've been with your t for 2 years - that distancing becomes a way to push a client into new territory. Just like we need both rain and sun, we need closeness as well as distance in our work with t's (or all relationships). When you work through this together, you will find new understandings and insights that you didn't know before. Maybe like seeing little flowers blooming after a rainstorm, or a long cold winter. And gosh, for me, I know I hate winter. Winters suck. And distance from a nice person such as your t is perhaps going to feel like a cold winter, but who knows, maybe it won't be a long one. And afterwards, maybe you will find some wonderful new growth like all the new things that grow again in spring.

Something like that... Geez, sorry I'm so rambly! Hope you find something of use in all of that And know that I understand, because I'm going through this also, in a different way, with a different person, and under different circumstances, but it still is hard and feels challenging to say the least. You'll get through it and it will change you. It will be a good thing, you'll see.

Yes - thank you for that!

I assume he's comfortable with transference, but really I don't know. We (I) actually don't talk about it.

I'm seeing how I might have been doing things backwards these two years. I'd never really felt anything for or with my old therapist. With this one, so many thoughts and feelings were suddenly activated. I found this fascinating and read everything I could get my hands on about transference. But that's made me self-conscious about it, so I've preferred to observe my reactions to him by myself, doing a kind of inexpert self-analysis. And I assume that he's observing it, too, and that it's understood in a session that when we're talking about dad, husband, cashier at the grocery store, we're actually talking about him. How backwards is that!

I also wanted to respond to this:

"So it may not be a need for you to reach toward him, but to reach into yourself to articulate your feelings and then explore what the origins may be."

I appreciate that so much with my reasonable brain, but that's the smaller part of my brain at the moment. The thought of it makes me feel scared and lonely. I don't want to reach into myself alone. If that's what he's getting at, I'm not ready. I want to reach towards him and then proceed together. I feel safe making those explorations in his office, but I'm not ready to do it alone. Even this tiny, subtle sense of withdrawal has made me feel so alone.

(I realize I'm saying I want him to be there for me even when I run away. Ugh!)

Sorry - the message above is in response to FKM's reply. I just saw yours as I was posting, angelicgoldfish, and will read it now. Thanks!

I feel safe making those explorations in his office, but I'm not ready to do it alone. Yes--in the office; absolutely. If he's generally been attuned to you, I doubt he will abandon you in this part of the process. And you can always phrase your thoughts as questions to kind of force him to respond as much as you need. This really isn't an exploration that's possible to do on your own.

Goldfish, that was great – thanks! I’m in rambling mode myself, so no need to apologize. What you said really struck a chord.

The other times I’ve felt that subtle withdrawal have been different. It’s only happened a few times and has blown over quickly. He opens the door and I can tell in the way he holds his body and arranges his face that something’s a bit off. Then there’s a bit of distance (or just less ‘warmth and fuzziness’) during the session. It doesn’t seem to be related to any of the content. It hurts a bit, but I don’t take it personally. He’s usually very present and engaged, which I admire and appreciate, but not even a saint could keep that up hour after hour, year in and year out. So I don’t find it problematic.

This is why I’m wondering if I’m feeling so dramatic about the perceived distance this time because I’m in a depressive trough. The depression is cyclical with me, and maybe those other ‘distances’ have occurred at times when I haven’t been so depressed, so they don't seem so hurtful.

About the curiosity thing: the week before, I’d been talking about a unique experience I’d had and how I didn’t feel anyone could understand what that was like. He said that actually he could understand because he’d had the same experience.

I stewed about that all week. I perceived him as having snapped at me, which he’s never done before. I also thought that what was behind his words was a criticism of me not caring enough about him to ask him questions like ‘Have you ever done that?’ And I felt that that was unfair, because for two years I’ve felt proud of my restraint in asking him questions about himself, when really I’m quite curious about him and under more normal circumstances am the one to ask all the questions in a relationship rather than disclose. I assumed that questions about himself would make him uncomfortable and also that they weren’t relevant to the work.

That’s how I started the conversation. He said he hadn’t meant to snap, but had just been trying to say that he could sympathize. (Reasonable enough.) But then the conversation veered into a sort of pat discussion of clients’ curiosity rather than about what I thought was the more important part of that disclosure: that I was worried about him thinking I didn’t care about him because all I did was talk about myself.

As for winter – this was quite revealing: I love winter. I love that everything’s frozen and pure. I abhor spring. I’m seriously stressed by the tender shoots and fragile babies and the changeful weather. So maybe I like to keep things frozen as they are (=death/depression) with my therapist and don’t appreciate being pushed into something new (=life). But I’m glad this spring is bringing good changes for you!

"I feel safe making those explorations in his office, but I'm not ready to do it alone. Yes--in the office; absolutely. If he's generally been attuned to you, I doubt he will abandon you in this part of the process. And you can always phrase your thoughts as questions to kind of force him to respond as much as you need. This really isn't an exploration that's possible to do on your own."

FKM - (I haven't mastered the art of quoting replies). You sound like my therapist! He repeatedly tries to remind me that he is there week after week despite my fears that he will not be. Even at this last session there was quite a bit of that. And when I've made noises about trying to figure some things out on my own, he's also said, 'You can't do it on your own.' Definitely some abandonment/trust issues here.

I’ve been feeling the past few weeks as though something’s changed in him. He seems more distant, a bit less present or less warm (not really sure which), maybe more professional or clinical, if that makes sense. It’s subtle, but it feels very real to me.

I absolutely HATE those sessions/phases. I completely understand how terrible that feels. I also explained it as being more "professional or clinical" and people just look at me funny like "isn't that T's job?" Well, yes, but it's unusual for our relationship and feels like crap. It most definitely could be something T is going through or perhaps he really is tired or not feeling his best. I call it "Therapist autopilot"...because the usual dynamics and relationship goes out the window and they are literally going through the textbook version of a therapist.

It might be a chicken and egg thing: I’ve been sliding into a depression for some weeks (I fall into one every few months), so maybe I’m perceiving every tic of his brow as a sign of irritation, repulsion and doom because I'm in the pit where I feel irritating, repulsive and doomed. But I’m feeling like what I’ve perceived to be the change in our dynamic is actually what’s making me feel depressed this time. I don’t feel I’ve progressed enough to be able to tolerate a withdrawal of his warmth. Was I just imagining the past dynamic? I feel surreal and scared.

I deal with depression as well and have felt this numerous times. It does not help the problem, that's for sure. Depression creates extra sensitivity because it is a time where we require extra nurturing and empathy. It is also a time where we may already be blaming ourselves for many things, feeling guilty, feeling alone, repulsive, unlovable, etc. So it is so easy to read too far in to facial expressions, responses, vocal tones, and questions. Is it possible he is still the same, but his usual level of warmth is not high enough for how low you are currently feeling? I too have felt like our past dynamic was an illusion or dream that never truly existed. I'm sorry you are experiencing this.

Has anyone had a similar experience? Any advice about how to open up and improve this discussion with him? Any advice about how to get through the pain and depression? It’s another full week until my next session. Might as well be a year.

I say this exact thing to my T all the time! This is when I know I need to increase my visits with her...when I say "it feels like a year goes by for the week to pass", I know I need extra support. Would your T be willing to see you twice week instead? Or at least as needed? Maybe even do one session in person and one phone session? Just a thought worth bringing up with him.
Unfortunately nothing fully alleviates the pain and depression until the situation is resolved. What have you tried telling him already? What has he said to you? When I go through these periods, I write a lot. Actually I write as I am speaking to my T and it helps tremendously. It allows me to make sense of what I'm really feeling and reminds me that our past relationship/dynamic was in fact REAL and I am NOT crazy. I hope this helps or that you are able to find some peace very soon. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to give details on the thread. I'm always willing to help.

HH – thanks so much for that. ‘Textbook version of a therapist’ is a good description: it’s not a bad version per se, but it’s a change from the head-on engaged, deeply human version I’m used to.

I especially appreciate your sharing that you’ve felt like you dreamed your past dynamic. That was a strong part of the feeling for me – so disorienting and upsetting. And when I’m in the depressive pit, I’m much more fragile and sensitive to every real or imagined nuance, which only adds to the disorientation.

I’ve told him a number of times that I’d always appreciate extra sessions if he ever had a free hour, but maybe having a standing request isn’t good enough. Maybe I should be more specific about when I need extra help.

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On that note, I wanted to thank everyone again for their help with this. It really helps to hear that others have had such similar experiences. Not only in a misery loves company way – though that takes some of the sting of the aloneness away – but also I’ve learned a lot from everything you all have said and suggested. I’m glad I brought my trouble to the table. It wasn’t easy for me. Thanks!