[PeeJay]

Has anyone ever had a family member, or other situation, undermine their progress in therapy?

A family member screamed accusations at me over the weekend and I feel like it wiped out weeks of progress in therapy that I had about controlling my anxiety and liking myself.

I didn't realize on how shaky ground I was emotionally.

Can you relate?

Are there people in your life who are the opposite of the therapist? Meaning, they reinforce bad patterns and leave you feeling physically ill?

And do you cut these people out of your like?

As it is, I don't know whether to cut this person out, cut him some slack, or berate my own self for being so weak and vulnerable that some harsh language against me has me this shaky.

Thanks. I could really use some help. I don't have therapy for another week.

[doyoutrustme]

In my first months of therapy, as I recalled recent conversations with family, I wasn't even aware with the passive ways they tried to undermine my progress. And my T said, "You know, your family wants you to fail." I'm like. WTF. I stewed on it and brought it back up a few weeks later when I realized it was true.

Sometimes breaking the "family script" is very threatening, and they may be both proud and resentful. It can get messy, but hold your ground. If you can't handle them, then you could create some distance between those people until you are ready to handle them.

Be strong, and be true to yourself, you will come out ahead.

[Perna]

I think people screaming accusations makes anyone/everyone miserable and a bit anxious and does not have anything to do with "us" and what we may/may not have learned in therapy that helps us. The only thing I have found that helps with screaming people is remembering that it is about them, not about you -- people who know/love/care about you do not scream at you. Getting that out of the way (that the screaming is not about me) lets me listen to what they're screaming about and imagine what their problem might be.

I had a boss scream at me that I was not doing something I was supposed to be doing and quit complaining, etc. but I knew it wasn't "mine" (I'd done it, he read the schedule wrong) so I just kept telling him the "facts" as simply as I could until he could hear what I had to say, look and find his problem, and then he apologized (profusely :-) and we carried on. However, all the time he was screaming was unpleasant and scary to me so you are not unusual in your reaction, it's just that you probably have not lost anything unless you believe the other person in which case you did not make any progress in the first place :-) The only progress to be made is that other people screaming is about other people screaming, not about you. You screaming is about you.

[HazelGirl]

It sounds like this person needs to leave your life. I say that if they are not contributing anything positive, why do you need them around? Time to cut them out.

[healingme4me]

One can withdraw, without ever leaving the room. It could undermine therapy, if you let it. Then again, it can reinforce therapy, when you recognize it, for what it is. Of course, screaming elevates the stress reaction, for sure. Places one into fight/flight mode, it's physiological. Deep breathe, with eyes shut one moment, place self in at attention posture, then ride it out, if leaving isn't an option. Control facial expressions, as to not send antagonistic display. Remember, it's them being out of control.

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk 2

[Asiablue]

I find family can just push that button that leaves you feeling small and back in a place you don't want to be and it can feel like all your hard work never even happened.

That's why i severely limit my time with them. I get no nourishment from any of them so my boundary and gift to myself is that I don't need to put up with their behaviour. I will tell them not to say or do a thing to me and i expect it to be respected and if they can't respect it, then I take myself out the situation. I sound strong but i fall apart in private and am really affected by them but at least I'm putting in the boundaries and hopefully their behaviour will at least be modified in future.

[PeeJay]

I'm so appreciative of your responses!

Originally Posted by Asiablue

I find family can just push that button that leaves you feeling small and back in a place you don't want to be and it can feel like all your hard work never even happened.

That's why i severely limit my time with them. I get no nourishment from any of them so my boundary and gift to myself is that I don't need to put up with their behaviour. I will tell them not to say or do a thing to me and i expect it to be respected and if they can't respect it, then I take myself out the situation. I sound strong but i fall apart in private and am really affected by them but at least I'm putting in the boundaries and hopefully their behaviour will at least be modified in future.

This has me feeling better about some boundaries I put up. I refused to engage with this family member the next day. And then I wondered if I was overreacting.

He kept trying to apologize, saying, "I love you," and wanting to talk it out. But every time I told him that his screaming scared me because it was out of the blue, he accused me of being too dramatic.

So basically, stating my needs and fears honestly is being dramatic?

Originally Posted by doyoutrustme

In my first months of therapy, as I recalled recent conversations with family, I wasn't even aware with the passive ways they tried to undermine my progress. And my T said, "You know, your family wants you to fail." I'm like. WTF. I stewed on it and brought it back up a few weeks later when I realized it was true.

Sometimes breaking the "family script" is very threatening, and they may be both proud and resentful. It can get messy, but hold your ground. If you can't handle them, then you could create some distance between those people until you are ready to handle them.

Be strong, and be true to yourself, you will come out ahead.

Thank you for this!

I appreciate this injection of strength for my backbone.

I think I have wasted a lot of time in life confusing "health interactions" and "boundary setting" with being weak.

Such as, I am saying, "I don't wish to be around you if you are going to act this way," and the family member replies, "You're too sensitive. You're such a baby," and then I believe that family member and start hating on myself.

I need to hold my ground. That's not weak. That's strong!

Originally Posted by Perna

I think people screaming accusations makes anyone/everyone miserable and a bit anxious and does not have anything to do with "us" and what we may/may not have learned in therapy that helps us. The only thing I have found that helps with screaming people is remembering that it is about them, not about you -- people who know/love/care about you do not scream at you. Getting that out of the way (that the screaming is not about me) lets me listen to what they're screaming about and imagine what their problem might be.

I had a boss scream at me that I was not doing something I was supposed to be doing and quit complaining, etc. but I knew it wasn't "mine" (I'd done it, he read the schedule wrong) so I just kept telling him the "facts" as simply as I could until he could hear what I had to say, look and find his problem, and then he apologized (profusely :-) and we carried on. However, all the time he was screaming was unpleasant and scary to me so you are not unusual in your reaction, it's just that you probably have not lost anything unless you believe the other person in which case you did not make any progress in the first place :-) The only progress to be made is that other people screaming is about other people screaming, not about you. You screaming is about you.

Wow, good for you for keeping your cool in that situation.

I really like this, "other people screaming is ... not about you. You screaming is about you."

I really like that. I told the person that his reactions to me are about him and he said I was trying to sound so smart.

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

It sounds like this person needs to leave your life. I say that if they are not contributing anything positive, why do you need them around? Time to cut them out.

I am considering this. I do have reasons for wanting this person in my life. I feel bad that he is so bad at communicating. He's trapped in a lonely world, in a way.

Also, I screamed at him once years ago and he didn't abandon me over it. So I feel bad just cutting someone off for their mistakes and flaws.

What's hard is that I need to protect myself first and I don't know what to do next. I don't want to overreact, but I can't help how scared I felt.

Originally Posted by healingme4me

One can withdraw, without ever leaving the room. It could undermine therapy, if you let it. Then again, it can reinforce therapy, when you recognize it, for what it is. Of course, screaming elevates the stress reaction, for sure. Places one into fight/flight mode, it's physiological. Deep breathe, with eyes shut one moment, place self in at attention posture, then ride it out, if leaving isn't an option. Control facial expressions, as to not send antagonistic display. Remember, it's them being out of control.

Thank you for this! I went into flight mode.

Normally, I would've yelled back (fight mode) but I think therapy helped me to at least disengage in the moment.

I will try to let this reinforce what I've learned - thank you!

[Fuzzybear]

[Ambra]

Yes, and from the most important figures in my life. It was a terrible blow. My mother didn't understand and undermined my determination, she made me doubt of my choices as I was very dependent and attached to my family. She kind of encouraged my ed with her own negative pattern.

My gp was very judgmental too and said that I'm disgusting (my T had to solve it when I rushed into her office in a crisis, lol, and it didn't take just an hour).
Now I'm leaving home for work reasons so I'm cutting them out in a certain sense. I try to see it as a way to distance myself from the negative patterns since the last thing I need is to panick if I gain a kg.

It takes a while depending on how much you care about that person's opinion I guess. But it's always useful to remember that you are not the problem. I'm just very sorry that your progress is being undermined too, it's not nice to feel threatened. I just stopped listening and I got a new gp. About my mom, it was a bitter outcome to me and I can't let go, so I talked to T about it. She helped a lot, we made a plan, now I'm more comfortable with it and am even waiting for my family to be ready to talk one day. It's not your fault at all if others don't understand.
I hope you can find some relief.

[CurioussKent]

My mother actually...
She's mentally strong and stubborn so whatever she doesn't understand and/or you can't explain she downgrades you saying things such as "when I was a kid...so I don't understand why you have it so "hard"." And "people in chili..."
I dunno

[marmaduke]

Asiablue
I find family can just push that button that leaves you feeling small and back in a place you don't want to be and it can feel like all your hard work never even happened.
This is so true, it can be like going backwards in time back to a place you don't want to be, back into the little mouse of a invisible unimportant person you used to be.
No contact with people who do not want you to 'grow' and get stronger.

[kjv2acts]

Oh, my stars, can I relate. My sister not only thinks that therapy is self-indulgent, but that if my faith were stronger I wouldn't need meds. My mother says if I need to talk, I should talk to her or my pastor, like I want them to know how crazy the neighborhood is in my head. Oh, and if I pray hard enough, I won't need meds. And of course, my psychiatrist must not be a Christian, or he wouldn't give me Xanax.

[nicoleflynn]

The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans is a book I believe should be required reading for Everyone on the planet. When you hear abuse......walk away,, hang up the phone....standing around to listen to it is like breathing poison and you wouldn't do that.

Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud another excellent resource. If our boundaries are stolen from us as children, we have to re-learn them.

1430 KYKN - Salem is listening is where you can listen to my radio interview on verbal abuse; you can click on Podcast...April 19th.....name, Alice

[PeeJay]

Originally Posted by nicoleflynn

The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans is a book I believe should be required reading for Everyone on the planet. When you hear abuse......walk away,, hang up the phone....standing around to listen to it is like breathing poison and you wouldn't do that.

Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud another excellent resource. If our boundaries are stolen from us as children, we have to re-learn them.

1430 KYKN - Salem is listening is where you can listen to my radio interview on verbal abuse; you can click on Podcast...April 19th.....name, Alice

I am listening now. Thank you!

I need to read this book.

I can really relate to certain family members undoing all the good that therapy has done. My T suggested I stay away from family for this reason. I have been made a scapegoat by family because I am the only one who sought help.(The others need it, but would never admit it)
I don't really understand your latest posts, but I do understand being undermined by "family".

[RTerroni]

I would say that for me it happened with the Therapist herself after she wouldn't give me a hug at our final session.

For a long time all of the progress that we made in 4 years of Therapy was wiped out by that.

[blur]

i think it is good to try setting boundaries first with a person before jumping straight to cutting them out of your life completely. while i don't know your history with this family member he did apologize. so, i'd give him the chance of trying to respect your boundaries before taking further action.

[PeeJay]

Originally Posted by blur

i think it is good to try setting boundaries first with a person before jumping straight to cutting them out of your life completely. while i don't know your history with this family member he did apologize. so, i'd give him the chance of trying to respect your boundaries before taking further action.

Thank you, blur. I am leaning that way.

We live a plane ride away from each other. I don't want to cut him out. But his accusations in the heat of anger demonstrate that he doesn't like me, or thinks I'm an unpleasant person.

But his apologies the next day were all, "I love you."

I really don't need any one to lob insults at me about my personality. I already struggled enough with thinking I'm unloveable.

I'm so confused! He has a hard life.

I told him he can't come visit me, as planned, unless he starts his own counseling.

He really needs therapy, too. He's been abandoned his whole life.

[PeeJay]

Thank you to everyone who weighed in.

I was able to have a early therapy session to address this issue.

The therapist said she was so happy that I got angry at being yelled at. She recommended that I read, "The dance of anger."

Apparently, it means my self worth is up to snuff because I got angry about being mistreated. (Funny!) So, getting angry at family members who mistreat you is progress.

The T said that this family member wants to get his way and wants me to fit into his box, and when I refused and insisted on being myself, the family member resorted to yelling and name calling. She said that he can still be a part of my life, but he needs to behave and I can't let him take over or invade my life.

At one point, she said, "You've created a bubble around you and your family, so you can be healthy and protect (your spouse and children). And other people can't come into that bubble unless they behave."

I said, "What makes us so special?"

And she said, "All families are that special. Every family defines how they want to be."

Then I asked if there was something wrong with me because I'm so estranged from so many people at this point. (I'm a former foster care kid, so I have blood family and foster family all over the place. Most of them were dysfunctional. Some were abusive to me and still are.)

After a while, I said, it feels like I am the problem since I can't get along with so many people from my childhood.

But the therapist pointed out all of the functional relationships that I have today and pointed out that I've just been in a lot of dysfunctional relationships.

She said that other people can't make the rules for me. And I can't make the rules for them.

And we talked about how family members can be manipulative in how they communicate.

Finally, I did ask her this, "Please don't go easy on me. If I deserved to be yelled at our accused, I need to know. I just don't know how to act differently."

But she said I was respecting this other family member's limits and he was not respecting my limits.

Therapy is so hard! Sometimes, life is so hard!

I am realizing that because I have achieved a modicum of stability in my life, that fact is threatening to a lot of people from my childhood, who are still caught in dysfunctional, depressing patterns, suffer from substance abuse, or are insecure about how their own lives are turning out.

I do think that being screamed at, while in a captive situation where I couldn't just walk away (late at night, in a car, in the middle of nowhere), triggered a PTSD response in me.

Sometimes, I really wish I came from a stable family! I hate how being healthy means putting people whom I want to love at a far arms length, because they don't know how to be functional!

[nummy]

You have the right to surround yourself with "safe" people during your most vulnerable days, but since that isn't always possible, you have two choices here. Allow yourself to be set back, or allow this situation to let you grow. It set you off. Why? Explore that with your therapist!! You may learn a lot from this incident.

[nummy]

Edit:
Whoops sorry just saw your update. Glad you had a constructive meeting with your therapist.

[roads]

This has been such a solid and helpful thread! Thanks, PeeJay, for starting it--and to all who contributed. I hope it gets widely read.

Roads

[PeeJay]

Thank you, Roads!

I'm reconciling with this family member using language and understanding that I got from my T.

And, my family member might seek therapy. He is in his 60s!

How do people negotiate their relationships without a therapist? I first started therapy because it was a last resort and my life was a mess. And now, it's so helpful just to have someone with a level head make sense of things!

My therapy relationship is really evolving as I calm down and settle into a trust that she'll be there.