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Old May 15, 2014, 01:57 PM
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HazelGirl HazelGirl is offline
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I just realized I have such troubles accepting my T's care because it doesn't make sense to me. What motivation does she have? Why would she care? Why should she? She doesn't have any ties of loyalty to me outside of what is professionally required (and she cares much more than what is professionally required of her). She doesn't have anything she is gaining from this. She doesn't have any motivation that I can see or understand. And that worries me because I can't guarantee that she will continue to gain whatever it is that she is gaining, and so I can't guarantee that she will continue to care. Geez...she has said that I was surrounded by narcissists and codependents, and I think that has changed my basic way of relating to others and understanding them in a fundamental way. If I can't give them what they want, I am worthless to them. The way of being accepted is to give them what they want. I gain my security from that. And so anything that I want that could run counter to their desires is immediately removed. And I can't really enter into any relationships without knowing what the other person wants because I don't know any other way of connecting. I have found a good substitute in serving others and volunteering for and around them. It allows me to "give" to them without being in a position where I am being harmed, mistreated, or abused. This is a pattern I developed at a very young age. But I don't know how to relate without that component. And it makes me so anxious to know my T doesn't fit into that mold, especially right now because I'm not paying her for May or June. But she is still herself and hasn't changed (yet). And that's so terrifying because I am not in control.
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  #2  
Old May 15, 2014, 03:08 PM
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I know I don't know you personally, but you seem so level-headed and self-aware. I really admire that about you.

And I can definitely relate about not making sense of T's care or motivations. Therapy is so fickle. It's such its own entity, that it's no wonder it sparks these feelings. But I think they're good. It's better than going in week after week feeling like you are wasting time and money. Even these feelings of negativity or doubt can be signs that something is working and the wheels ARE turning, which is a therapist's intent, right?
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  #3  
Old May 15, 2014, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winenot3 View Post
I know I don't know you personally, but you seem so level-headed and self-aware. I really admire that about you.

And I can definitely relate about not making sense of T's care or motivations. Therapy is so fickle. It's such its own entity, that it's no wonder it sparks these feelings. But I think they're good. It's better than going in week after week feeling like you are wasting time and money. Even these feelings of negativity or doubt can be signs that something is working and the wheels ARE turning, which is a therapist's intent, right?
Thank you. I don't often feel very level-headed, lol. Right now, I am frustrated at my T and haven't told her because it would require me being way vulnerable, and that's twice as hard when I feel like there's something between us. I may understand things like this logically, but it doesn't always mean it actually changes a whole lot. That takes time.
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  #4  
Old May 15, 2014, 04:06 PM
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I relate to this so much.
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  #5  
Old May 15, 2014, 04:16 PM
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I completely identify with what you're saying, particularly about feeling worthless if I'm not useful. Just so f****** up, isn't it :-(
Learning how to say no and call people (the H in particular) on their s*** is a f******** painful process, I'm getting better at it tho...

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  #6  
Old May 15, 2014, 04:25 PM
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Wow, that is a big realisation. And I am actually the same way, i get my sense of worth and security from people needing something from me. I have no idea what to do or how to act around people who don't seem to want or need anything from me. And that's why I feel so insecure around my T too, cos she doesn't need me so there's nothing binding us together.
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  #7  
Old May 15, 2014, 06:51 PM
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Perna Perna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HazelGirl View Post
She doesn't have anything she is gaining from this.
I don't think we can know another's intrinsic motivation. Your T has probably helped a lot of clients and learned a great deal and felt a great deal of satisfaction from working with them. T's are kind of the other "half" of us; we want to work on us and they enjoy helping us work on us. What motivation does a parent or friend have? Why are you friends with X? You like them, that's why. There don't have to be reasons other than what makes sense to you.
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  #8  
Old May 15, 2014, 08:59 PM
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HazelGirl HazelGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perna View Post
I don't think we can know another's intrinsic motivation. Your T has probably helped a lot of clients and learned a great deal and felt a great deal of satisfaction from working with them. T's are kind of the other "half" of us; we want to work on us and they enjoy helping us work on us. What motivation does a parent or friend have? Why are you friends with X? You like them, that's why. There don't have to be reasons other than what makes sense to you.
But this is something I have never experienced. My T has told me many times that true love, like friends might feel for each other, doesn't expect anything in return. I fret and worry constantly about making sure I am not a burden and making sure others are satisfied in relationship with me, but my T keeps saying what you are: that friends and family, when they truly care, don't have ulterior motives or things to gain. They just enjoy the company of those they call friends. I can't imagine someone wanting to be around me just for the sale me enjoying me. In my mind, they have to get something in return. That's all I know. Does that make sense?
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  #9  
Old May 16, 2014, 02:56 AM
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Perna Perna is offline
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Maybe other people do have ulterior motives; what I am saying is we cannot know. You can't make sure you are not a burden or that others are satisfied because all that is up to them. All you can do is enjoy yourself and your relationships, can't do theirs for them.
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  #10  
Old May 16, 2014, 07:18 AM
PeeJay PeeJay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HazelGirl View Post
I just realized I have such troubles accepting my T's care because it doesn't make sense to me. What motivation does she have? Why would she care? Why should she? She doesn't have any ties of loyalty to me outside of what is professionally required (and she cares much more than what is professionally required of her). She doesn't have anything she is gaining from this. She doesn't have any motivation that I can see or understand. And that worries me because I can't guarantee that she will continue to gain whatever it is that she is gaining, and so I can't guarantee that she will continue to care. Geez...she has said that I was surrounded by narcissists and codependents, and I think that has changed my basic way of relating to others and understanding them in a fundamental way. If I can't give them what they want, I am worthless to them. The way of being accepted is to give them what they want. I gain my security from that. And so anything that I want that could run counter to their desires is immediately removed. And I can't really enter into any relationships without knowing what the other person wants because I don't know any other way of connecting. I have found a good substitute in serving others and volunteering for and around them. It allows me to "give" to them without being in a position where I am being harmed, mistreated, or abused. This is a pattern I developed at a very young age. But I don't know how to relate without that component. And it makes me so anxious to know my T doesn't fit into that mold, especially right now because I'm not paying her for May or June. But she is still herself and hasn't changed (yet). And that's so terrifying because I am not in control.
But, maybe people want to help you and care about you simply because you are you and you deserve it?
  #11  
Old May 16, 2014, 08:10 AM
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HazelGirl HazelGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perna View Post
Maybe other people do have ulterior motives; what I am saying is we cannot know. You can't make sure you are not a burden or that others are satisfied because all that is up to them. All you can do is enjoy yourself and your relationships, can't do theirs for them.
I know this is true. And it's part of why I have such difficulties in relationships. Because I try to figure out why they care. And if I can't, I tend to get anxious and leave the relationship. Which leads to a pattern of being only around those who want something from me (because I understand their motives), which puts me in a position to potentially be mistreated, taken for granted, or abused by others. I have seen this happen over and over, and there are relationships I miss terribly that were very unhealthy because they were based on this dynamic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeJay View Post
But, maybe people want to help you and care about you simply because you are you and you deserve it?
I don't see how I deserve it. And I don't see how I am someone whom others value. I don't feel like I hold any intrinsic value. There are 7 billion people on this earth. What makes me so special? Answer: nothing. I don't deserve any of it.
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  #12  
Old May 16, 2014, 11:31 AM
PeeJay PeeJay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HazelGirl View Post
I don't see how I deserve it. And I don't see how I am someone whom others value. I don't feel like I hold any intrinsic value. There are 7 billion people on this earth. What makes me so special? Answer: nothing. I don't deserve any of it.
It's not a logical thing. I don't think love and value -- the human worth of a person -- is logical or can be justified in dollars and cents, or in any measurable way.

I'm sorry. I have been in this place. I don't know how one feels worthy. I know that it is happening for me slowly and it is a huge part of why I am in therapy.

I had some "aha" breakthrough moments when I reflected on someone who did love me and saw me as worthy and I cried and cried. Learning to love oneself is ... hard. We're suppose to be taught to do so as kids.

The T thinks you are worthy. Even if you don't feel you deserve it, she still does. That's something.

I'm sorry it's hard for you to take it in and internalize that.

It's even harder to accept it and not doubt it.
  #13  
Old May 16, 2014, 11:44 AM
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HazelGirl HazelGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeJay View Post
It's not a logical thing. I don't think love and value -- the human worth of a person -- is logical or can be justified in dollars and cents, or in any measurable way.

I'm sorry. I have been in this place. I don't know how one feels worthy. I know that it is happening for me slowly and it is a huge part of why I am in therapy.

I had some "aha" breakthrough moments when I reflected on someone who did love me and saw me as worthy and I cried and cried. Learning to love oneself is ... hard. We're suppose to be taught to do so as kids.

The T thinks you are worthy. Even if you don't feel you deserve it, she still does. That's something.

I'm sorry it's hard for you to take it in and internalize that.

It's even harder to accept it and not doubt it.
I know it's not logical. But it is important to realize this and to understand why I see things the way I do. It's a slow process to change, and my T keeps insisting that it really just takes time.
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