[Ambra]

**********TRIGGER warning - just in case (had to disclose this to ask the question)**********

As the title says.
I've been struggling hugely with trauma work and I got this homework: I have to find an episode that made my negative convintion start and one that proves it's not true. For example, i have this statement, "i am evil/bad". I couldn't find a good episode - even though there must be some, hopefully - but I know how it started. So i am going to have to disclose that I harmed a child my age when I was 9 in one of the worst and most painful days of my life (yes I know I am a monster and I will stay away from here if you want). And now I don't know, can't really stand the idea that T's perception of me might totally change. I do worry about that because I can't let someone who thinks bad of me help me and it breaks my heart the thought that I might have to leave just NOW. I feel like I don't deserve my T and that I will be a huge disappointment. Don't know what I wanted to ask, maybe I just wanted to reach out. I feel physically ill. Do you think T might dump me this time, if I say something like that?

(That child is fine! He's now a grown up like me and there's no permanent damage or anything. We actually became friends years later and he never knew what triggered me so much that day of his usually bully behaviour).

Ambra, I suspect you are much harder in your judgment on yourself than your T (or any of us) would be on you for something you did as a child. Kids sometimes do things impulsively or reactively because . . . well . . . they are kids.

My own son did something some years back that I know he would never do again. He didn't do it because he was evil. He didn't do it because he was bad. He did it because he wasn't thinking. He acted impulsively. It didn't make his behavior okay, but it didn't mean he was a bad person either.

He's moved on. You've moved on. Can you forgive yourself for your actions as that child that you were? I suspect your T will be quite able to hear your story and not feel differently about who you are as a person. What it will do is give him more insight into who you are (or who you perceive yourself as) today.

[HazelGirl]

I am so sorry. People who have been hurt tend to hurt others. That doesn't make them good or bad, it just makes them human. Have you ever heard the phrase "Hurt people, hurt people". It means that those who have been hurt, tend to be the ones who hurt other people.

I don't think your T will see you as bad for that. I think she will see you as a hurting child who didn't know how else to handle their pain, except in the way they were taught, which was to hurt others.

[Leah123]

Nine year olds are not civilized. Don't make the mistake of judging yourself then by adult standards. That has nothing to do with evil.

Your T won't abandon you nor change their perception of you based on that if your T is in the right career.

Let me challenge you to work harder when looking for a counteracting example, something to refute the idea of you as evil. If you haven't thought of one, you're not trying hard enough.

Have you posted a supportive message to anyone here? Ever been kind to someone in person? Said a prayer for someone who needed it? Done a good deed or random act of kindness? Or even just NOT hurt someone when you had the chance? Those are all the opposite of what an evil or bad person would do.

Come on, Ambra, pull for yourself!

[Ambra]

Thank you. This has always bothered me quite a lot so I didn't know how to handle it or how it would be seen.. didn't really have the chance to address it until now.
Therapy has become so hard, your words really made me feel better.
Uh, I've heard the phrase before. It's true I am just sooo worried that it still makes me a dangerous person to her even after years.. but I had no idea of what other people think and I just remember it being a big deal at the time.
I have the urge to bring it up though. Like, asking T if her idea of me might ever change and if there's a line for what could be "too much". Which is more about me and my self esteem than about her liking me as client, I know..

Originally Posted by Leah123

Don't make the mistake of judging yourself then by adult standards.

Let me challenge you to work harder when looking for a counteracting example, something to refute the idea of you as evil. If you haven't thought of one, you're not trying hard enough.

You are right
Yeah I was looking for something "bigger" to balance the entity of the other action, but maybe it is better to find more "little" deeds. I'm not good at homework, sigh. I really hope I will be free one day, as these moments make me realize how easily I get stuck in this sort of things and thoughts.

[Petra5ed]

You were only 9...

[Ambra]

But I sent someone to hospital.. this has always bothered me and made me feel like a horrible person. Hopefully things will change, thanks Petra5ed.

[stopdog]

Children do not understand cause and effect to any great degree.

I do understand the idea that it is hard to remember being a child. I look at children related to me and I think - I don't remember being that small and clueless. When I remember myself from 4-7 (a period of significance for me) I recall thinking of things as trade offs or if you want this - it will cost you that and that being willing to pay the price made me responsible. The therapists seem to disagree with it.
I also remember some childhood games/incidents which seemed perfectly rational at the time but now seem rather questionable in terms of my own safety and that of others. Resulting at least once in a hospital run for another child.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by Ambra

But I sent someone to hospital.. this has always bothered me and made me feel like a horrible person. Hopefully things will change, thanks Petra5ed.

Lots of kids get hurt badly enough to go to the hospital, I did and so did my brother, just due to normal childhood accidents, not abuse or anything.

The thing is... children of 9 do not have the intellectual capacity nor the emotional maturity, in other words, not enough cognitive development to accurately judge the impact of their actions or to accurately appreciate the impact of those actions.

You ever read Lord of the Flies?

I have a daughter, she turns 9 in two weeks, but she's gifted, already past that 9 year old level intellectually. If not for adult supervision, she might've sent people to the hospital too, she's a rough kiddo.

Where was your adult supervision, Ambra?

You couldn't have logically judged the potential for harm: kids are just too impulsive, emotionally driven and immature. Sure, not every kid sends someone to the hospital,that's true, though some do (not just you!) but remember, it's why children can't be tried for crimes as adults: they don't have the mental capacity to be responsible even for crimes.

P.S. I hope you're devoting equal time to a list of positives as to this one negative event... gotta be fair if you're doing homework.

[Wysteria]

Dear Ambra...
You sure have gotten some really wonderful advice this afternoon...they are all very correct in that a 9 yr old does not have the maturity to always or even often ..lol...have the emotional and intellectual maturity to always make good choices...and your T is very aware of that.

Secondly, the definition of shame (per Brene Brown) and many others is that we DO something bad...but that does NOT MAKE US BAD. I still make bad choices, sometimes hurt people, sometimes do or say the wrong things, sometimes get angry unnecessarily or wreck my car or WHATEVER!!!!

Does that mean that I'm EVIL...?? Am I a BAD person??? Am I unforgiveable??? Would the church melt if I opened the door or would I corrode someone with my very disgusting inherent badness???

The answer is No. Do I feel evil and bad..yes, because I have a horrid view of myself and shame....

So I think the key point is that we all DO things badly or wrong....but the fact is you have a wonderful conscience, big heart, compassion, and a mature mind now that knows much better where the boundaries lie. NOONE and Especially not your loving and wonderful T is going to shame you or blame you or make you feel "less". That is you. I do a great job shaming myself too...you are not alone. lol

Keep thinking...I hope you will work on that forgiveness (as your friend has obviously already forgiven you) and learn from your mistakes and try really hard not to make them again.

I think your T will be really impressed with how hard you are working in therapy and on becoming the best person that you can be...

Good luck and let us know what she says...

-WB

[brillskep]

Kids do stuff like that sometimes. Now of course, I don't know what you did, but if you've even become friends it can't have been as evil as you feel it was. Anyway, I know how this doubt might feel. I don't have the same experience as you but I struggled for a few years to tell my therapist something I used to do as a child / teen for the exact same reason as you. But then one day I told him, and he actually answered with "so what?"and compared to something he used to do as a kid. Now I can also see how what I did, while not the best thing I could have don, it isn't a tragedy.

When I read your post, I really didn't and don't think you are evil. I think you seem to have remorse for what you did, which isn't the feeling of an ëvil"person (I don't even think there is any purely evil person out there at all). I can sense your pain for feeling about yourself this way. As you can see, you've received support here, not judgment. It should be the same and better with your therapist. Knowing more details about your history, your therapist may understand even better what happened and what triggered you that day.

I hope you find a way to forgive yourself.

"Can you be to bad for your therapist?"

No, Ambra you can't. You were a nine year old child. Let your therapist help you to help that nine year old free herself from the dungeon she has reside for so many years. She deserves and needs her freedom, and a nurturing life. It's time...

[Ambra]

Thanks for your support, it is always a surprise how kind and helpful you all are.

It was a hard session. I hate being vulnerable. We discussed it, made a plan for the work ahead, I didn't get the blow I expected but I got more homework (lol). T heard all that cr*p and basically said I am so convinced of it that it feels true that I am bad despite it being totally false. Also she confessed she didn't expect me to hide so much when she was told about me at first but that she has never thought of handing me to someone else.

T gave me a book and some sheets with notes and tips that she handwrote. The idea that she bothered to do these things at some point of the week makes me feel silly now and a bit too lucky.

Originally Posted by Leah123

You ever read Lord of the Flies?

Where was your adult supervision, Ambra?

My supervision was abusing me while my parents were busy away from home. Maybe that's where I learned from.
Good luck to your daughter then, bright children grow up faster and I'd say she is in very good hands
Never read The Lord of Flies, I will get it then. Thanks.