[Leah123]

I work with my therapist online. I pay a lot per hour to see her, and the agency that provides the website and format takes 50% of my payment. It's hard to afford, but mental health is a priority for me, I'm attached to my therapist, and the work's been very successful, so I pay the premium to see her.

I've asked her to consider using other services before: she would earn much more of the fee with them and I'd pay a lot less out of pocket because 50% wouldn't be going to a third-party just for hosting the website and advertising her.

She has said no because she has an agreement with them, she's comfortable with them and I've surmised she just thinks it's the best way for her to reach the most potential clients and be most financially successful. She wouldn't even let me use a second account with that website so I could see her as a "referred" client rather than a proprietary client of the site which would have meant her keeping much more of the fee, I think it was partly ethical but partly fear that they'd sanction her for letting me do that. It just galls to pay SO much to a service provider, because I didn't know the fee structure when I started, and then it was too late to change the terms.

Until today.

I just found she had set up shop on another website, a MUCH less expensive website, offering EIGHT weeks of treatment (different format than what I use now, but still offering a lot) for the amount I pay for ONE week's worth of sessions currently.

I feel so... well, it's more a visceral reaction, my heart pounding and skin prickling. Angry that she would do this without telling me, angry that I'm paying SO much to see her because I thought she was being principled, sticking to her agreement to only use that one site, disappointed that what I thought was her acting ethically by not switching services when I asked her to might've just been her not wanting to or thinking it was beneficial enough.

It's like she's two-timing, lol.

In one sense, I understand. If she's not making enough $$$ then, makes sense she'd sign up to do therapy elsewhere too. That's just a matter of practicality: if she needs the income, she needs the income. I'm not one who can throw stones at glass houses, I've certainly compromised my ethics to earn a living in the past, though it's something I've been working REALLY hard to change these past few years.

But... she should be more honest than me. She's my therapist. And she shouldn't offer up less expensive services elsewhere and leave me stuck paying a premium knowing it's SO difficult.

She's not responsible for easing my financial difficulties, sigh. I DO know that. It's just... what is she doing over on that other website. I think it sucks that due to some technicality, she probably wouldn't see me elsewhere, and I need to stay with our current service, paying them 50% of the fee for the privilege of working with her on their lousy site.

I'm so upset. I just saw this like 10 minutes ago, and I shot her off a quick email saying that I'd found something online about her that was really incongruous. So begins an email session where I pay her to freak out about her professional choices.

Hm-m-m-m... this certainly does give one pause... I've never done on-line therapy. I have considered it. But I have health insurance & I want them to pay. They wouldn't for on-line services. The situation you describe would certainly cause me to have second thoughts as well. Hope you can straighten this out to your satisfaction, Leah.

She probably has an agreement with the service you are on that she cannot take clients to another service. You started there and she probably has her hands tied as far as this goes if she is to stay with her contract with your service.

[growlycat]

She may be violating her agreement with the first co/website.

I'd be angry too! I couldn't trust someone who did that to me.

I highly recommend face to face therapy for a long list of reasons.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by 1914sierra

She probably has an agreement with the service you are on that she cannot take clients to another service. You started there and she probably has her hands tied as far as this goes if she is to stay with her contract with your service.

That I could understand, though I still don't think it would be fair to me as a I client, and I'd like to think that doing what was in a client's best interest was also part of her consideration when evaluating the most ethical thing to do.

However, the terms of service for the site I use currently state that she can't use another service, and that's part of what burns, because it *seems* like she's violating her own stated ethical principles.

I am holding open room for more information on this, understanding I've only just found out about the other site, but this is what I have so far, factwise.

[Leah123]

I stand corrected, it now appears she's able to work multiple sites, I see the terms of service are not what I recalled, though I need to double check.

Which just leaves the question of how I handle feeling screwed and the conflict between her previous explanations and the current reality. Perhaps her needs changed and so she changed opinions, sigh.

But I don't really want to be paying her Eight times what it'd cost to work with her on another site, even if the format was more limited. I should get over it. Not call oranges apples. But all I'm seeing is red.

[Leah123]

I just don't think it's fair. If *she* can change services for her financial benefit, why can't I change to that service for my benefit. I found her independently, she didn't lure me there, ha.

So unfair. I'm so mad I don't even want to talk to her.

It isn't just an on-line therapy issue. I remember my second T was initially seeing me for free at church, but he started working with a counseling center and part of his contract with them was that he would only see clients AT their center according to their fee schedule (it was very much sliding fee though). I wasn't thrilled to have to go to a different place and start paying him (even if it was a small fee), but it was his career choice and it was what it was. I certainly had the choice to stop seeing him, but that would have been shooting myself in the foot.

Originally Posted by Leah123

I just don't think it's fair. If *she* can change services for her financial benefit, why can't I change to that service for my benefit. I found her independently, she didn't lure me there, ha.

So unfair. I'm so mad I don't even want to talk to her.

You have the option of leaving her and finding a more affordable option if that is what is ultimately important to you. You aren't under contract; she is.

I'm playing devil's advocate by the way. I get you are upset by this, but some things are beyond our control.

[Favorite Jeans]

I'd be seeing red too. It's especially upsetting given how much you've had to go into debt to pay her and how hard you've had to work to cut down on your hours just to stay within a reasonable budget for your family. I'd want to feel that T was trying really hard to look out for me and it would sting to find out that others had access to her for much cheaper.

I've also had some intense reactions to professional choices my T has made. Most recently it's been about her cutting back her hours. As with your situation, her decision has nothing to do with me and doesn't really change our current arrangement in that I'll be seeing her for the same price at the same frequency. But it's upsetting to me nevertheless.

[Asiablue]

Whether there is a reasonable explanation for this or not, I would be furious and feel betrayed and not looked after and like her integrity was in doubt. Whether those feelings are wrong or fair or not, that's how I'd feel. I hope you can sort it out with her, I'm sure you will, she seems like she has your best interests at heart.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by 1914sierra

I'm playing devil's advocate by the way. I get you are upset by this, but some things are beyond our control.

Lol, I *think* I appreciate you playing devil's advocate, it is one of my favorite roles normally too.

Sigh, you're right, of course, I'm under no obligation to see her, but this woman is... well, she is an awful lot to me, and of course, there's also the fact I seem to be making great progress with her.

You're right... some things are beyond my control, certainly. I may well need to just accept this and continue on course, after all, the terms haven't changed for me, it's just seeing that tantalizingly close option to be her client for so much less is a real bother, disheartening and upsetting and confusing. It's fresh is what it is, having just seen it.

[unaluna]

I would check if the price goes up after the first 8 sessions, like switching credit cards, ya know?

I get that. You never know though. That other service may be cheap because it may severely restrict her time with clients or something which would not work for you anyway. Hard to know. You'll just need to talk your reaction to this through with her.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

I'd be seeing red too. It's especially upsetting given how much you've had to go into debt to pay her and how hard you've had to work to cut down on your hours just to stay within a reasonable budget for your family. I'd want to feel that T was trying really hard to look out for me and it would sting to find out that others had access to her for much cheaper.

I've also had some intense reactions to professional choices my T has made, most recently her cutting back her hours, because of how I feel it could affect my connection with her.

Thank you, this is so spot on how I feel... I have made my choices, and I will never blame her for the amount I've paid for therapy, but.... I can wish that she'd be looking out for me and right now... I'm not sure about that AT all.

I told her the other day... paying for this course of therapy was her was the difference between being in the black and the red every month.

If I didn't pay so much, my budget would balance, but it's so worth it to me to maintain our connection, to see her for therapy, I'd committed to that, but now it just seems... I don't know, it just seems patently unfair to know she's willing to work somewhere else and keep me on the side as a cash cow.

I'm surely exaggerating because I'm upset. I pay a fair rate, it's just that because there's no insurance to cover it, it's hard to handle out of pocket. She doesn't overcharge me, it's just... to see how little the other site charges... wow.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by hankster

I would check if the price goes up after the first 8 sessions, like switching credit cards, ya know?

Yes, you and Sierra just mentioned a similar element, that the service might not offer what I'm used to, not apples for apples, and I'm really sure that's true, but... there's no way I can imagine where it wouldn't be cheaper to use the other service.

No service I've researched except one other charges as much as the one we use, sigh.

I'm really confused about how deep in she is with them, but on their page there's even a spot to pay her directly, so... obviously she's set up to take on individual clients there, along with participating in that eight week program they offer I think.

I've got to think how to approach this with her, sigh. She's sent me an email:

"???????"

I was trying to be circumspect and not mention the new service while communicating on the current site, sigh, but I guess it apparently doesn't matter.

[sailorboy]

The more I hear about online therapy the less I respect it. I would be really upset. It seems she's not really working for YOU.

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by Leah123

Yes, you and Sierra just mentioned a similar element, that the service might not offer what I'm used to, not apples for apples, and I'm really sure that's true, but... there's no way I can imagine where it wouldn't be cheaper to use the other service.

No service I've researched except one other charges as much as the one we use, sigh.

I'm really confused about how deep in she is with them, but on their page there's even a spot to pay her directly, so... obviously she's set up to take on individual clients there, along with participating in that eight week program they offer I think.

I've got to think how to approach this with her, sigh. She's sent me an email:

"???????"

I was trying to be circumspect and not mention the new service while communicating on the current site, sigh, but I guess it apparently doesn't matter.

Time to go "crazy client batshit" just let it all out!!

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by sailorboy

The more I hear about online therapy the less I respect it. I would be really upset. It seems she's not really working for YOU.

No, I do think she is working for me, she's very committed, and I can't logically blame her for not wanting to lose my income. I mean, she has to look out for herself too, and I understand she wants to build her clientele right now, especially as I've been cutting my time with her in half.

I mean... if you had a client paying XX for your services, and weren't making enough, and found a way to make a bit extra... would you really want to slash that clients fees and compound your own financial issues more, sigh.

It's just... I'd like to be able to pay her on another site, because for example, paying her $100 an hour, she only makes $50 an hour. But if she let me switch sites, then I could pay $80 an hour, and she's make $75, a total win win.

I don't know how the new site she's on works exactly, I just know there are other ways, other sites we could use, even Skype, which is free.... and then she'd earn like all of the fee, sigh, and it could be easier for me too.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

[/color]

Time to go "crazy client batshit" just let it all out!!

Partly I'm tempted to do that, read her the riot act and ask what is going on. Partly, I just want to let it all go. I don't really need more drama, I'm sure... I don't need ANY drama.

I just.... I just feel... sacrificed to the letter of the law. What is really most ethical... to serve your client or to serve the corporation that connected you to them.

She'd probably say, she's honored her agreement with me, which is to charge the rate she charges, and if she brought me to another site, she'd be breaking her agreement with them, but... I've never been black and white about ethics.

I just think... it does her and I more harm for me to stay with the site I'm at than to change it and I wish that were a consideration, rather than what feels like a technicality to me, but isn't to her.

I don't know. *processing, processing* ha

[Leah123]

Well, in response to her ?????? I simply sent her the website link for her page I found with the other therapy service.

I did not send it at first because I thought the site we use now wouldn't allow her to use other sites, and I did not want her to feel afraid to be sanctioned if I was specific, because the emails can be monitored. However, I reread their terms of service, and the site we use says experts can use other sites too, so... knowing that she couldn't get in trouble for this, I sent her the link. Sigh.

I don't think I want this drama, but... I don't want to ignore this either, I'm upset by it.

[Asiablue]

I totally get it. It's hard to not go with your instinct of just reading the riot act when your body is in some sort of panic overdrive, there's a real impetus to "do something, do something now" but your head is telling you that's not the best course of action and to practice caution and give room for explanation. I hate that!

[Leah123]

Yes, I like to think I'm not as stupid as I sound when mad, because in the rest of my life (outside therapy) when something bothers me, I'm usually wise enough to give myself time to settle, to let reason reassert itself and to act in a way that serves me without causing drama.

In therapy, I've thought it best to sort of... run with my feelings more, in hopes of getting some insight and working through things, ha, but.. sometimes it does get messy. Blargh.

Oh well, goodness knows I pay her enough for it! Ha. ^^

Originally Posted by Leah123

I just.... I just feel... sacrificed to the letter of the law. What is really most ethical... to serve your client or to serve the corporation that connected you to them.

She'd probably say, she's honored her agreement with me, which is to charge the rate she charges, and if she brought me to another site, she'd be breaking her agreement with them, but... I've never been black and white about ethics.

Yes, it is a legality for her. One that if she breaks she can lose a main source of livelihood for. Ultimately, this is her income and she has to play by their rules or risk being fired. If she gets fired, will she be able to continue practicing at all with this type of company? Will she need to go into face-to-face private practice, which, if I'm understanding right, would certainly cut you out of the picture altogether? It's simple for you; just think of me and give me the best price. But it isn't that simple on her end. She has more to consider than that.