If you do talk to your T about the relationship with him or her, how often does the subject come up, and how much do you discuss it? I know that not everybody is interested in discussing this with their T, and I know that for many people, the notion of having any kind of relationship with their T is foreign or even abhorrent. I have no problems with that - I don't think it makes the therapy any less effective for the people involved. But for some of us, it is a real thing, and I wonder how much time and effort other people spend on it in session. I'm not only thinking of transference here, although that's part of it I guess, but things like telling your T how it makes you feel when they say or do this, that or the other.

The thing is that for me, talking about a relationship with the other person in that relationship is strange and foreign and new. I don't know how much is too much, or how much is enough, when it comes to this kind of discussion. I am scared of making my T frustrated or tired of me, by focusing on it too much, and I am afraid of saying the wrong thing so I come across as criticising T. (I can criticise him if necessary, but I don't want to seem to do it when I don't mean to.) And I don't think that a professional relationship which takes place in a specific place at specific times, with a person I know very little about, ought to be as important to me as it is!

I know this is not a new topic for these boards, and I have probably weighed in on similar discussions in the past, but things have changed a bit in my own therapeutic relationship, and so I have been thinking about this a lot recently.

[Leah123]

We have talked about it pretty frequently.

When I was in so much distress yesterday, for example, she'd recommend going and doing something nurturing, and I'd say investing in this conversation IS what I'm doing to be nurturing. As she tried to help me brainstorm I'd tell her what I really need is just the calm I get from your company, I just want to do an exercise with you to get back to my baseline.

So some of the talk is process talk- how to make the most of our relationship.

Some of the talk is more what you might be referring to, talking about what she means to me, the nature and quality of our relationship, and about any little misunderstandings or concerns I have. So, we talk about her in a good-enough-mother role, which is just being there consistently for me, making herself available a lot, giving lots of (virtual) hugs, helping me with all my parenting worries, sending me songs to show she cares and help me through rough spots, etc. I've even broached the L word a couple of times, and she tells me she cares about me very deeply, and she's talked a little indirectly about the love in this type of relationship, as a good-enough-mother figure. (She had 10 years of therapy with her previous therapist and considered that her own re-parenting relationship, so that's part of her foundation too.)

I can relate to your anxiety about focusing on it too much: I was definitely worried about oversharing about our relationship early on. It was probably at the.... six month mark (thought I was doing like 3 sessions a week, so maybe that's like the 18 month mark lol) that I told her how important it was for me to have a reliable figure like her in my life and kind of dumped my history of broken connections with maternal figures on her. I felt it was a lot to venture, but.... after a while I got over most of the fear of rejection, of being too much. Part of that process was her encouraging me to always tell her how I felt about her, if I was angry, etc. So her openness was a huge help. She also says things like how honored she is to work with me that really helps me feel.... at least marginally more comfortable referring to our relationship and making it less like a doctor visit and more like a mentor or counselor, something a little more intimate and casual.

Anyhow, not sure how much of that is helpful, but if there's anything more specific you had in mind, I'm happy to answer.

[HazelGirl]

We talk about it a lot. Like almost every session in some way or another, in connection with other things, or when problems happen, or just randomly.

You're in therapy to talk about whatever you want or need to. If you need to spend forever on the relationship, then there's no reason your T should be frustrated with that.

For me, it kind of goes in waves. For a few months there, it seemed like all we talked about was the relationship. I find it horrible, but it is a learning experience.

[feralkittymom]

Sounds like everything is on track. It is awkward; it is unusual; it is both enticing and repellent. If I remember correctly, we tended to go in cycles of talking about in the moment interactions. For those sessions, it would be intense, but then it might be a month or two before engaging in that way again. It was never planned on my part; I think it was planned a couple of times on his part.

Your T doesn't sound the type to be easily flustered, nor to take things said defensively. If you're very hesitant, you can always phrase a statement as a question: "When you say ___, I notice I feel ____: why is that?"

[Bill3]

It's timely for me that you started this thread because I was just thinking about mentioning something to her. Generally, though, we don't talk about it.

[archipelago]

My therapist is a Relational analyst so the relationship is considered the medium through which most of the work is done. Lots of psychoanalytically informed approaches pay lots of attention to the relationship, but usually to the distortions that may occur. Relational is different in that it acknowledges a real relationship; it tries to reduce the hierarchy, increase openness and transparency, encourage good use of self-disclosure, and foster a mutuality, or a deeply respectful recognition of each other.

Since both of us know about these principles, when they happen we each recognize that. We don't always talk about it though. At first it was just forming and felt awkward though was encouraged. And now the relationship is settled and clear so a lot doesn't need to be discussed explicitly. In the middle and at times of tension, it is something that is openly explored and sometimes altered. His position is that he wants and needs to modify to adapt to me and even shifts in me so that he can best help me.

[stopdog]

Never at this point. In the beginning the woman brought it up once or twice, but I don't think she liked my responses so it has stopped coming up at all.

The second one I see has never mentioned it at all.
Both claim to be psychodynamic.

I talk about it a lot as it is very important to me and I spend a lot of my own time thinking about it. I know that T sees less value in talking about it than I do, but I probably talk about it every session because to be honest it is the most important relationship to me outside of my family at the moment.

We talk about it every now & then. I think I've recently figured out why I feel the need to, too. It's because I've been learning from this therapy relationship all along, about the kind of relationship that I would ultimately like to have with myself. As in, what I feel coming from her when we are talking, is what I want to feel from myself only all the time, not just during that 30 minutes every 2 weeks or whenever. Speaking of which, I think I need to space my appointments out a little more, give myself more time to practice that. Maybe I'll try 3 weeks this time.

[Lauliza]

We never talk about it. I don't talk about the nature of relationships with people close to me outside of therapy either, so it's not a conversation I tend to have with anyone. They are always on my mind, but I rarely talk about it.

[someone321]

We do not talk about it like: okay, let's talk about our relationship
However, we do talk about it more or less directly at (almost?) every session. As we work together for just few months, we do have some misunderstandings so we still have to clarify many things. Actually I am not sure when we talked about the "real" problem last time, instead we talk about here and now (feelings during the session, communication etc.). I guess, such talks are very important in a certain type of therapy but I agree that it might not work for everyone and at the beginning it actually irritated me as I found it as a simple waste of time...

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Mastodon

And I don't think that a professional relationship which takes place in a specific place at specific times, with a person I know very little about, ought to be as important to me as it is!

Except that the focus of that relationship is ME, and that is very very very very very important to me. Even tho it goes against my religious training, and my experience in my family. JP Sartres would agree with me, and fortunately t is a fan. Maybe im lucky that the rest of my life is so effed up, i have evidence that its not a luxury for me to do this. But thinking that way is weird - its evidence of a coverup. And a coverup is reason enough to go exploring, imo.

When I first started therapy, I didn't want to talk about the "relationship". It made me intensely uncomfortable and I didn't believe it was something I needed to discuss. I just wanted to come in and vent, and initially, that's what I did, and my therapist allowed me to dodge the questions related to her and my thoughts and feelings about her. I truly believed that I was fine in the relationship area--I was employed in a good job and well respected. I had a solid group of friends and had a relatively positive relationship with my family. But slowly, I began to recognize that I really did need to talk about the relationship and how I replayed similar themes over and over again both in therapy and out of therapy. Unfortunately, I had to move away from my initial therapist before I was really able to dip my toe solidly into the issues related to the therapeutic relationship.

I'm now with a new therapist (attachment focused psychoanalysis) and she stepped into that area right off the bat in the third session. I was ranting about something and she calmly and unintrusively calmly checked in with "how do you perceive me here in this room in that regard?" My heart gave a bit of a lurch but I answered her because I have promised myself that I was in a more stable place emotionally this time around and it's time to be more honest about how I see or view the other person in the relationship. I do believe for me, a person who has avoided talking about intimate and close relationships in any way shape or form, facing this stuff head on is critical.

[Perna]

I saw my T for two different periods of 9 years, 9 years apart from one another and it was definitely much easier and more likely to talk about "us" in the second period, often through remembering what things had been like before, etc. I found that a good way to open discussion, telling her things that I couldn't tell her at first, back a few years earlier, what I had felt and thought, etc. It was very interesting because we'd get talking about our individual perceptions of a particular office, for example, and I was always surprised at her responses. Eventually it got so I could talk about things "sooner", like when we had to use the Director's office instead of the one we usually used (and it was much nicer) and comparing the two offices and the orientation of the chairs and how the chairs seemed bigger or more/less comfortable. Often my wrong perceptions would come out, I would say I was glad she had X in the other room (foot rest, say) and she would be surprised because she did have X it had always been there, that kind of thing.

[Soccer mom]

Fortunately and unfortunately we have talked about it a lot due to maternal transference after my moms death. I fought and fought these feelings of closeness and am just now giving in 4 months later. I've realized through talking about it that there are patterns in my other relationships. I'm sure we will be talking about it for awhile since my anger for my mom and love I wanted are both directed towards my T.

[ScarletPimpernel]

We talked about it a lot. It used to be one of my main focuses, but now that I'm finally getting a little more secure, it doesn't come up all the time (plus she's starting to dodge the topic )

[growlithing]

My old school T would want me to talk about it a lot. She'd continually try to bring it up and get me to talk about it. I was very uncomfortable with it until my last year of working with her. I then would talk about it a very little bit but it was weird because I honestly didn't feel much for her. I did feel something but it was more of an attachment to the idea that maybe she could help me rather than an actual attachment to her. I don't know how to explain it.

TT and I never discussed it. LCM and I do talk about it. It comes up casually in session but isn't the focal point unless I am upset with her. She feels that I use the topic of our relationship to deflect talking about harder issues which is absolutely true.

[lunatic soul]

Too often. Our conversations almost always get to our relationships.

[healed84]

Before recently, we had both only mentioned it here and there.. T more than myself. The last couple of months, there have been more and more talk about it as I am having issues with it. My T speacializes in object relationships and the relationship between client/t is important in this kind of theory I guess.

[JustShakey]

I feel this conversation coming on. And it is going to be Uncomfortable (although I'm not entirely sure why it should be, just that it is...). I already told T I'm bringing a blanket to hide under tomorrow...

Thanks to all who have responded. It is interesting and it helps me a lot to see all the different takes on this. I'm somewhat reassured by the fact that my pattern doesn't seem to be unusual - other people also talk about it a lot with their Ts from time to time, even if the modality of the therapy isn't relational.

And yes, my T is pretty much the definition of "unflappable". Yet I feel embarrassed when I tell him how important therapy is to me, I feel embarrassed when I try to point out things that he says or does that don't work so well for me, I feel embarrassed when I talk about what I imagine that he thinks of me, I feel mortally embarrassed when I say something about what I would like from him. I would probably choke to death on my own embarrassment if I tried to say that I would like a hug (and I know he would say no anyway.)

I can see how discussions about the therapeutic r/s could be a substitute for talking about other, more important relationships... but I don't think that's what I am doing, because I dread the discussions and try to avoid them, and yet they feel rather important.

Bah. Books are so much easier to relate to than people.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by Mastodon

Bah. Books are so much easier to relate to than people.

I agree. But like my T pointed out, books aren't real: no one ever uses the bathroom.

Originally Posted by Perna

I agree. But like my T pointed out, books aren't real: no one ever uses the bathroom.

Not actually true - lots of books mention bathroom visits. Even one of the Harry Potter books, iirc

It is interesting that your T said that books aren't real. My T once said that he did not believe that I know almost nothing about certain types of relationships, given that I read almost constantly.

[justdesserts]

Very rarely. My therapist is a man and he seems uncomfortable talking about it. That might not be entirely true. Sometimes I'll ask him how he can put up with me and he'll tell me, or he's told me that he loves me, but actually talking about the dynamic between us, I can only think of three times.