[PaulaS]

I´ve been terminated a couple of months ago and it was against my will, I wrote about it in other posts her at PC. The termination was much due to my T couldn´t handle I questioned her and her methods and since then I´ve done a lot of research around termination and found that a lot of clients have done much "worse" things than I did and their T:s stayed with them anyway.

My T was in the psychodynamic field and I sometimes get the notion that a psychoanalyst is more patient and indulgent to their clients. Is there any truth to this? I don´t really want to go into psychoanalysis, much because of finances and also much because I want more of direct communication with a T. Having a conversation, being able to look into each others eyes when talking and so on.

But I of course fear that I´ll get terminated again if I show a bit of scepticism or if I question the T or sometimes don´t fully trust her.

What´s your experiences/knowledge on this matter?

[NowhereUSA]

I can't speak to the differences. Maybe it's more of an individual T thing and less the field? My T is DBT trained and that's my only experience.

[dancinglady]

I have not read your posts but this exactly happened to me. I am so sorry. Yes if we questioned our therapists they will terminate you and in a violent manner. This happened to me. Do you have any other options? I was in psychodynamic for 9 wasted years. I am in USA so I was able to receive DBT which has helped a great deal. My psychologist is a psychodynamic but also is a psychologist. My psychodynamic was done by a Licensed Clinical Social Worker which was a big mistake. Of course, I fell in love with him and I was violently discharged and it has taken two years to recover but that was with DBT. Yes you will always have trust issues now that this has happened. Then you will get another diagnosis because you now can't trust a therapist - go figure. Good luck.

[Lauliza]

I think the rupture you experienced was not due to your Ts theoretical orientation but rather due to your T's personality. The connection is usually what determines successful therapy. Yes, Psychoanalytic Ts may be more indulgent due to the nature of the approach, but I don't know about patient. There are other factors that could create frustration in a psychoanalytic T. I think the success of psychoanalysis depends on your preferences and patience level. I think there many clients don't have the patience for psychoanalysis and prefer other approaches because of this. My current experience is with a social worker/ psychotherapist who uses a mix of CBT, DBT and psychodynamic approaches. It has been very helpful. I've experienced frustration from my psychiatrist but not my T. Even then, it's something my pdoc and I have talked through and it's always been beneficial in the end. I've disagreed with both of them many times and have never experienced any backlash because of it. You need to do serious research and find the right person to have success.

[stopdog]

I don't think I have shown anything other than doubt, skepticism and questioning of them. And that is combined with telling the woman she has never guessed correctly about anything.
Still she keeps taking money weekly from me. So they don't all object to that sort of approach.

[brokenwarrior]

I'm sorry this happened to you and has caused you so much pain. I feel it has more to do with the individual rather then how they practice. I have never asked my T what kind of therapy she practices mostly because it doesn't matter to me. I like her and her work. She seems attuned to me and I probably have more strick boundaries than she does. She would never terminate me if I questioned her motives. In fact she has asked me if I have ever questioned something she's said or done. If I think about it next time I see her I will ask her what kind of therapy she does.

[LindaLu]

Sorry for a long post here...

My T was trained very much in psychoanalytic perspective although Ive asked for more practical tools for coping with my problems. She has complied and for that I'm grateful.

If I were to start over I'd avoid anything like psychodynamics or its derivatives. The sessions run the gamut of openly challenging, indirect, insinuating, and even cruel. Sometimes feeling like a rat in a maze.

We have begun to explore psychic defenses that prevent me from being "present". That is important to do. But going through conflicts with T and breaking and reconstituting the "therapeutic alliance" is painful.

Nothing about this treatment paradigm is indulgent towards the client.
Talk to others whom you know/trust (if you feel comfortable doing so) who have either been trained in this area or who have undergone treatment. Some people thrive in this paradigm but others have suffered psychic trauma. You know yourself best.

One book you might read before resuming therapy with anyone: In Session, by Deborah Lott. It poses questions to ask your T to assess their fitness to meet your needs. Good luck in your search!

[anilam]

I question my T quite often (sometimes for no good reason other than just to be oppositional ). He takes it really well, we do discuss it sometimes (no reason if it was just me wanting to say no) and his "approaches" change accordingly- it is MY life (and my money) we are discussing there afterall so right or wrong I have the final say.
I feel like I should add that I for one don't think Ts know best (even with all their experience and expertise...). I use their opinion if I think they might be onto stg but no blind trust approach here. (I understand that it works for some just not me)

Originally Posted by LindaLu

Sorry for a long post here...

If I were to start over I'd avoid anything like psychodynamics or its derivatives. The sessions run the gamut of openly challenging, indirect, insinuating, and even cruel. Sometimes feeling like a rat in a maze.

My T is very challenging and the things she says feel cruel too.

Originally Posted by PaulaS

I´ve been terminated a couple of months ago and it was against my will, I wrote about it in other posts her at PC. The termination was much due to my T couldn´t handle I questioned her and her methods and since then I´ve done a lot of research around termination and found that a lot of clients have done much "worse" things than I did and their T:s stayed with them anyway.

My T was in the psychodynamic field and I sometimes get the notion that a psychoanalyst is more patient and indulgent to their clients. Is there any truth to this? I don´t really want to go into psychoanalysis, much because of finances and also much because I want more of direct communication with a T. Having a conversation, being able to look into each others eyes when talking and so on.

But I of course fear that I´ll get terminated again if I show a bit of scepticism or if I question the T or sometimes don´t fully trust her.

What´s your experiences/knowledge on this matter?

I have only seen psychodynamic therapists. The first two were not great matches for me, but neither one of them was ever impatient or cruel, and neither one gave the impression of being annoyed when I questioned them. My current psychodynamic T is the most patient person I have ever met - I have written about that before, quite often I think - and he welcomes questions and challenges to his methods. He is not perfect, but nobody is.

Psychodynamic psychotherapy has its roots in psychoanalysis. If the psychodynamic method did not work so well for you, I would perhaps think of looking into a behavioural kind of therapy rather than psychoanalysis. There is a reason there are different kinds of psychotherapy after all - we are all different. But once again, all reputable studies that have been published on comparison of different kinds of psychotherapy indicate that it is the match between client and therapist that is most important. That doesn't mean the modality is unimportant, but it does mean that different therapists within the same modality can be vastly different in terms of how well they suit a particular client.

[Partless]

In general, stay away from psychoanalysis. It's worse than psychodynamic, it's more traditional, more authoritarian, and more distant. The opposite of that is humanistic therapy, where you are treated like...well, a human being, not a patient or ill or stupid or crazy.

Originally Posted by PaulaS

I´ve been terminated a couple of months ago and it was against my will, I wrote about it in other posts her at PC. The termination was much due to my T couldn´t handle I questioned her and her methods and since then I´ve done a lot of research around termination and found that a lot of clients have done much "worse" things than I did and their T:s stayed with them anyway.

My T was in the psychodynamic field and I sometimes get the notion that a psychoanalyst is more patient and indulgent to their clients. Is there any truth to this? I don´t really want to go into psychoanalysis, much because of finances and also much because I want more of direct communication with a T. Having a conversation, being able to look into each others eyes when talking and so on.

But I of course fear that I´ll get terminated again if I show a bit of scepticism or if I question the T or sometimes don´t fully trust her.

What´s your experiences/knowledge on this matter?

I don't think T's usually terminate when they are questioned. I really think you probably just had a bad one. I think my psychodynamic t considers that me questioning her and getting a bit angry is real therapy, and is me bringing my issues. I'm not entirely sure about the whole thing but I'm going with it at the moment as I am feeling I'm getting something from it.

[stopdog]

I don't think of therapists as being indulgent or not. I don't think they are in a position to indulge me or not. The ones I see, as mentioned before, do not seem to have a problem with strong skepticism, but I certainly do not consider them being indulgent about it.

I am sorry to say I've had higher expectations for my dog's veterinary care than my own therapy; however, that's changing. More and more, I agree with the theory that success depends on the match or fit between the person and the therapist, rather than the type of therapy. It's perfectly okay to question them. If they get defensive, leave. There's no need to pay for that type of treatment. At the same time, there's a responsibility on the individual's part to be respectful and take proportionate responsibility.

[stopdog]

I expect more from dog's vet because the vet actually does something. I don't think one should continue to see a therapist who is defensive or touchy about their profession's lack.

Not sure "indulgent" would be a good idea in a therapist--not for me anyway; indulgent implies allowing client to continue on with unhealthy behaviors, but that may just be my take on the connotation of the word. But a therapist who is perceptive enough to understand what "motivates" a client's behaviors and skilled enough to help them find their own understanding and skills to learn more effective ways of getting on in the world would be a good thing. Personally I don't want to be indulged or coddled; I'd much rather have a therapist give it to me straight (yet patiently and supportively--I'm with you there) than to have him just sit back and indulge my thinking and behaviors that haven't ever worked for me in the first place.

[wotchermuggle]

There are very few of us (from what I gather) in this forum who have a psychoanalytic therapists.

I feel like I repost this comment over and over, but there are DIFFERENT types of psychoanalysis that are 1 session a week and do not include lying on a couch. They also include a therapist who is willing to problem shoot with you, disclose personal experience when applicable and share in the discussion with you openly.

It's called relational psychoanalysis.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by lolagrace

Not sure "indulgent" would be a good idea in a therapist--not for me anyway; indulgent implies allowing client to continue on with unhealthy behaviors, but that may just be my take on the connotation of the word.

I have a different understanding of indulgent than the one described here. My reaction to indulgent is that it is a paternalistic attitude or condescending stance for someone to take towards another. But since I don't go to the therapist to have them let me continue or not continue in my behaviors (none of their business for me unless I specifically ask them about it - which I never do), I would not see it as a therapist allowing me to continue. I don't think of a therapist as allowing me or forbidding me to do anything.
I find it very interesting to see how we all respond differently to these things.

Originally Posted by stopdog

I have a different understanding of indulgent than the one described here. My reaction to indulgent is that it is a paternalistic attitude or condescending stance for someone to take towards another. But since I don't go to the therapist to have them let me continue or not continue in my behaviors (none of their business for me unless I specifically ask them about it - which I never do), I would not see it as a therapist allowing me to continue. I don't think of a therapist as allowing me or forbidding me to do anything.
I find it very interesting to see how we all respond differently to these things.

I had that connotation in my mind too with the word "indulgent". Just rubs me the wrong way, but connotations are a very individual thing, so the OP may not have either of our takes on the word in her mind at all. She may just define "indulgent" as kind and supportive.

I don't see therapists as "allowing" or "forbidding" me to do anything either; you may misunderstand me there. I DO see a therapist as helping me see what I do if it is unhealthy and helping me direct myself toward healthier ways of living. Again -- connotations.

[stopdog]

Perhaps I misunderstood your use of the word allowing in the earlier post. It is not a word I would use with a therapist in any connotation. But others do so all the time.
And, of course, there is also the part where I believe we use therapists very differently from each other in general.

Originally Posted by stopdog

Perhaps I misunderstood your use of the word allowing in the earlier post. It is not a word I would use with a therapist in any connotation. But others do so all the time.
And, of course, there is also the part where I believe we use therapists very differently from each other in general.

LOL. I suspect you use therapists very differently from many people, but that's what makes you so interesting Stopdog.

[Ididitmyway]

I don't think, a particular theoretical orientation defines how patient the therapist is and their other personal qualities. It defines the style of the therapist's work. Psychoanalysis and psychodynamic therapy works on a much deeper level, but that is everyone's personal preference as far as what type of therapy they want. In terms of how therapists handle questions, complaints and concerns from clients, this, mostly has to do with their personalities, not their theoretical orientation.

[PaulaS]

I think psychoanalytic T:s are quite few in my country but it´s valuable to know that there´s a therapy form called relational psychoanalysis. I´ll ask for that if I´ll come to see a T who´s a psychoanalyst.

Originally Posted by wotchermuggle

There are very few of us (from what I gather) in this forum who have a psychoanalytic therapists.

I feel like I repost this comment over and over, but there are DIFFERENT types of psychoanalysis that are 1 session a week and do not include lying on a couch. They also include a therapist who is willing to problem shoot with you, disclose personal experience when applicable and share in the discussion with you openly.

It's called relational psychoanalysis.

[PaulaS]

This is an interesting point and seems to be quite universal when talking about choosing a T. I know I like the psychodynamic approach but I don´t know how to choose a T as there seem to be no way to eliminate all uncertainties. I thought choosing a psychoanalytic T would perhaps be a "safer choice" when looking for a T who can handle different issues in the therapeutic relationship as complaints and so on. You can ask a potential T about their approach to transference and countertransference and so on but how the T actually acts in therapy seems very hard to get to know about.

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

I don't think, a particular theoretical orientation defines how patient the therapist is and their other personal qualities. It defines the style of the therapist's work. Psychoanalysis and psychodynamic therapy works on a much deeper level, but that is everyone's personal preference as far as what type of therapy they want. In terms of how therapists handle questions, complaints and concerns from clients, this, mostly has to do with their personalities, not their theoretical orientation.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by PaulaS

This is an interesting point and seems to be quite universal when talking about choosing a T. I know I like the psychodynamic approach but I don´t know how to choose a T as there seem to be no way to eliminate all uncertainties. I thought choosing a psychoanalytic T would perhaps be a "safer choice" when looking for a T who can handle different issues in the therapeutic relationship as complaints and so on. You can ask a potential T about their approach to transference and countertransference and so on but how the T actually acts in therapy seems very hard to get to know about.

Regardless of what type of T you choose, it's a good idea to start the first session with questions about how they practice. After all, you are a consumer, this is the service for you and you are paying for it, I assume. And even if you are not paying you are still a consumer and you are the one to decide how you want therapy to work. Always talk to a prospective therapist about your preferences, hopes, goals and expectations and see what they say. If they don't respect your role as a decision maker in the process, find someone else.