Do not diagnose others or tell others how they should have acted

If someone asks members for opinions then giving opinions is supportive as people do what was asked of them. It is impossible to predict that when people ask for opinions they only want opinions of a certain kind or only opinions they agree with. No one is mind reader

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To address the concerns raised in this thread regarding my request:

1. If a person specifically asks for a diagnosis advice from members, you're welcomed to add your two cents. If they do not ask for it, and you feel the person has been wildly misdiagnosed (as a concern of their psychotherapy), you're also welcomed to gently suggest a second opinion (but probably not offer your own diagnosis, since they didn't ask for one). In any other case, you should probably stay away from trying to offer a diagnosis.

2. We won't allow threads to be posted without replies. There are so many places you can go online to rant (like starting your own blog) if you want to do that. This is a discussion and support forum, so it doesn't really fit within our purpose.

3. Posters are always responsible for asking for exactly what it is they are expecting or wanting from posting their thread or question. If they want specific advice, they should say so (and that would be fine by me). If they just want to be validated for their feelings, then it would be helpful to say something like, "I was angry and now I feel guilty for being angry. Is it okay to feel anger?"

There's often two sides to a response -- the emotional one and the rationale one. If you don't help us understand which one you're looking for, you're likely always to get a mix of the two. Which, in most cases, is okay. It's just that sometimes it crosses over into, "You did this wrong," which is not a supportive or helpful response (even if technically true).

4. If you're unsure if the OP wants a specific opinion or not, you can always start with an emotionally-validating reply ("Wow, that truly stinks. I would've felt the exact same way in that situation..."), but then also query if you have more to say on the issue but don't want to be too pushy ("I also have some advice-like thoughts on this, but not sure if you want to hear them or not...?").

5. I think that as long as you don't do so in a judgmental manner (suggesting your way is right and their way is wrong), you're welcomed to share how you might've handled a situation differently. We're all different people, and sometimes that can be helpful to hear a different scenario, and sometimes it might not help at all. But if done in a thoughtful, caring manner, I'm okay with it.

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I only post generally of this nature to the forum because it's a (a) recurring issue for this forum in particular and (b) there are too many posters who sometimes fall into one of these areas to contact individually.

You would get a warning first (and often 2 or 3 warnings) before any actual action is taken. So if you are one of our members who's inclination is to judge others' behavior here or what not, we'd give you a PM heads-up about the issue to give you an opportunity to change your behavior. (That's what we always do, for any issue in the community.)

Consider this a clean slate. We just want to keep this forum a positive and safe place for people to be able to come and discuss their issues, concerns, wins, and questions about psychotherapy or their therapist. This is best done in a supportive, non-judgmental environment.

Thanks,
DocJohn

I think it would help if people were clear what type of responses they are hoping for. There is nothing wrong with requesting validating comments only. But it is not fair to ask for opinions in general & then lash out as those who take the time, mostly in an effort to help, and address this OP's query.

I've seen a few posters doing this - i.e. Asking for a general 'what do you think' and then flaming those who suggest alternatives. Seriously, however well-meaning one is, it makes it hard to even venture out to respond to certain people. It would only take *one* sentence to specify: 'I only want X type of comments'. I know it puts me off responding at times.

Sorry but there should be some personal responsibility for thread starters as well. It is not realistic, nor fair, to expect well-meaning responders to tiptoe around said OPs. :/

I guess the difficulty over the internet, is that we are only reading words and whether it is the OP or others responding, we know limited things about them and do not always know how vulnerable they may be feeling. My T can say something to me oneday and I may be very ready to hear it, on another day I might find it completely overwhelming and crushing. The other obvious difference being that T is then there to pick up the pieces. We don't know what support beyond T's people may have on here.

I guess there's no perfect formula, but personally when posting I often ask myself how I'd react if T said to me what I'm about to post to someone else.

I never meant we post threads with no replies but that when people don't want specific replies they say so in the original post. And if they don't want any opinions they should say so.

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Thanks for answering this. But our ts dont usually give us THEIR opinions - they more try to be supportive. Thats the difference i try to achieve in my responses.

sometimes i do just ask for an opinion - is it okay if i do or dont do this thing. But what i really want is discussion. Or support? Idk.

I think posters also bear some responsibility to stop once it becomes clear their type of response is not being useful fo an OP even if OP was not quite clear at the very beginning. Instead often those posters act hurt that their advice or whatever was rejected but still keep going back and further criticizing the OP and somewhat intentionally escalating them.

Thanks for taking time to clarify - I like this post better than the first one.

Yeah, in the ideal world posters would know what answers they are looking for and say it. And ppl replying would respect that. We are bound to make mistakes here and there but we can always try

Thank you DocJon, that update helps a lot.

Let me take this moment in this thread to say that personally, if I post something I AM WANTING help/advice/input/suggestions/etc.... Now that is just me, but if you see my posts in the future, know I am wanting replies. I will also say that I do have my own issues and tend to feel that I mess things up easily and am always scared of upsetting others so I have had a couple of replies that have made me back off posting for a while. So, I do understand the caution also and that we each have our own luggage we are trying to carry and unpack.

Lastly, if any post/reply I EVER make appears gruel in ANY MANNER, it was by accident or misunderstanding. I would never judge anyone or want to make anyone feel bad.

Even with the clarity, I am still a little scared of replies because getting that 'warning' would be like having heart surgery without anesthetic. Obviously, it appears a big trigger for me is doing things wrong. I might need to discuss that in therapy.

In my opinion, I think this forum is one of the places where it is okay to tip toe around someone, to be cautious about what we post. I think that if we are interested in helping a fellow member when we decide to post on someone's thread, it might be helpful to start by asking what they think would be helpful-unless they have been very clear about the sort of feedback they are looking for. Taking the time to ask before proceeding might take a few seconds of our time but if the goal is to help, maybe that's okay.

I agree that it would be helpful for the person creating a thread to detail what they need. But, that probably won't happen every time and not everyone will even know how to describe what they need. I know that at times I have read through a thread, to see what has been posted and to see how the OP is responding to what is being posted, to give me a hint about how to proceed. And, if I am truly unsure and concerned that I might say the wrong thing-then I decide it's probably best not to post.

I know that sometimes I end up making assumptions based on a few sentences or a few posts on a thread. I have to remind myself that words have different meanings to different people. Maybe I am responding to a post or a thread based on my own experiences and I try to remember that each person responds in their own unique way to similar experiences. And, I have to remind myself that it's very difficult, unless specifically specified, to know what the tone and feeling is behind the written word.

I just think it might be helpful to take the time to ask or clarify what someone needs or to discontinue a response when it's clearly upsetting the OP.

As evidenced by the results for an "unsolicited advice" search, advice-giving is a delicate interaction no matter the circumstance. I think of it as ALWAYS trespassing in another person's life, and think it should be done with forethought and care.

I've often seen members here who seeming do their version of emulating a therapist through name calling or insults under the guise of "being honest." The preface "I like playing therapist," is a sure bet that veiled aggression will follow. I've seen all kinds of name calling, feigned omniscience, scolding and blaming: you're playing victim, you need a reality check, you're clouded by your BDP thinking, you run away from every situation, you're failing to heal the rupture, you expect him to read your mind, the common denominator is you, you're fault-finding him because you're afraid to face your issues, what's your role in your mistreatment?

I see this kind of advice in itself dishonest, coming from the giver's vanity rather than a sincere need to help the other person. I think that's the metric--is this for me or them? Another give-away is the pretense of magical mind reading. We don't know each other and certainly weren't in the room.

I think it's less intrusive to paraphrase something back to the other person, humbly: "I understand you say that she changed her own rules with you."

I frankly hate prescriptive advice. I long ago was in a career support group where we gave advice out of our own case study and vulnerability. So instead of "you should do yoga," it was "yoga seemed to pull me out of my doldrums." It's delivered a a peer-to-peer comment which isn't superior or direct, leaving the recipient to decide whether it applies.

I've had a few people "play therapist" with me in real life. It's always hostile and never ends well.

I do appreciate having a thread like this where we can discuss these ideas.

I've made the decision to have my post deleted if it upsets someone, even if they are not the original poster. IMO, for the last several months a lot of people have been highly sensitive, because of their own life's issues, and it's easier for them to fight with faceless people. At this point in my life, I'm unwilling to have the negative discourse.

When I get a sense from the original poster that my post is unwelcomed when they thank everyone else for posting, except me and certain others, I have the response deleted. I am quite aware that my type of therapy and my opinions are not very popular, and I am more than okay with that.

I am used to having my threads removed, and I have asked for guidance in starting threads and posting, but as the owner said, "There are too many of us to notify/work with individually." So, the only way I know to police myself is to limit my posting, and delete it or have mods delete it if anyone takes offense.

Oh dear, I have misunderstood the thread.

The difference is we aren't therapists on this site and not getting paid lol we are just talking and answering questions and trying to help one another but I sure hope no one thinks this is therapy as helpful as it is

People need to say what they want when they ask questions but I guess sometimes we ourselves don't know what we want.

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I think it's a given that many posts here are about personal sensitive issues. I also believe it's nearly universal that few of us welcome criticism, condescension and smugness at our expense

I think advice--is complicated, and easily can be a disguise for self-congratulations, superiority and demeaning. If I give advice, the onus of me to do so out of generosity, not from my own deficiencies. If I set off another person's defensiveness, that indicates I've failed, delivering the advice poorly or with a dishonest, selfish agenda. If I need to lash at and brand someone who refuses my "wisdom," maybe I'm not so honest and not so wise.

I agree and I have probably been guilty of this myself. I want to be more compassionate and kind and caring.

Me too!

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I try very hard not to give advice, only my own experience. If I write something that causes someone pain, no matter where that pain is coming from, I am comfortable withdrawing my response, because, I am not wanting to cause them more pain.

Also, I have requested help with how to post better, and I am still waiting, but I also know because of this thread I may never get that response, because there are quite a few others in the same boat as me.

ETA: When I speak about sensitivity I was not speaking about the original poster I was speaking of those who respond to the post. Sorry I was not clear about that. English is not my first language. I understand the OP is usually posting because of an issue that may have them in a quandary.

Your post breaks my heart.

Quote from Partless, "Your post breaks my heart."

Thank you for responding.

I just wanted to say I am fine with all that what is. I said what I said as a statement of fact for me, not because I feel bad. My ex therapist worked with me on how to keep my emotional-self well if I choose to go on forums.

Also, I want to let you know I always enjoy reading your post and your gift for writing.

therapyworked4me, thank you, I appreciate it.

I had felt sad reading your post, especially parts about not getting thanked and then removing your post or "I am quite aware that my type of therapy and my opinions are not very popular," or " I am used to having my threads removed...." Made me sad cause it made me feel like you don't get much support even in a support forum when you're trying to help and when you have best of intentions.

It's unfortunate that a group that is more likely to understand one's pain is also the same group that is likely to feel most offended by innocent and well-intentioned comments, and read something into them that was never intended. I guess sometimes a hand extended as sign of care and support can look threatening to one whose wounds are fresh and finds the hand too close for comfort. So the hand gets slapped away!

p.s. btw, you're too kind and I wish I had a gift for writing, but luckily I do have a different sort of gift, one for misspellings and bad grammar.

This thread almost perfectly illustrates the double standard I keep mentioning in this forum. Those of us who do try to offer what we perceive as support and actual suggestions (there's a nail in your head, you could try taking it out to fix your headache), get profusely criticized and diagnosed as grandiose, smug, self congratulatory, etc. We are both diagnosed and told how we should act. People assign motives to us, like we are semi-deliberately antagonizing, or whatever. I have been attacked on a personal level in threads and when I respond to try to explain what I meant, my response is deleted as a violation of the community standard that disagreements should be resolved in private, but the attack on me is left up on the thread, even when I ask that it be removed.

THIS is the kind of thing that I think really sucks about this forum and the reason I often debate whether to not to continue. It really does perpetuate my childhood experience of never having my experience or my feelings be important, and having to withdraw and not participate in most discussions for fear of constantly being told how I feel or think is wrong. In this forum, as in my life, I have basically withdrawn from interacting with anyone except a small group.

I also noticed that irony in this thread.

I just carry on being me. Posting as I do. I'm powerless over how others perceive my posts/intentions.