[RedSun]

Trigger CSA trigger

A while back in therapy, I talked about

Trigger abuse (sorry, the box thing keeps not working properly so I'm not trusting it!)

a family friend who I have history with. I was saying that he bought me things when I was a teenager, and the incidents happened. That he gave me gifts and could be quite kind, and did special things for me etc.

I can't remember Ts exact words, but basically that we both knew that I could be being manipulative in saying that. It did make sense at the time, because obviously both T and I know what that behaviour could be seen as....

But, I feel that, actually I wasn't being manipulative...I often am, in that I get T to say something whilst I pretend to be naive to that interpretation...but in this case, I feel more that this, and other, memories, are almost 'crystallised' at the age that I wrote them, and when I revisit them, they are still there in their original, distorted form. Doe s that make sense? Anyone else find the same?

Now, I want to ask T a stupid, obvious question, 'was I ......' Because I need to hear it, I don't believe it, also Im not even sure now if I was and I genuinely want to ask. But T will think I'm being manipulative again, so I'm not asking. I feel stuck.
Help?

[Leah123]

Oh my dear, I hope you will ask. There is only one correct answer to your question, and T should know it. I hope they will. I believe they will. And they should absolutely understand why you would ask. I've certainly asked such questions myself. If by chance they give the wrong answer, you'll have learned something very valuable, but I don't imagine it will come to that- has your T been.... reasonable so far? Helpful and considerate?

[RedSun]

Thank you.
Yes, my T is lovely, kind and accepting, also challenging in a good way. I just feel scared that I will be see as manipulative again, and that I won't get an answer. Because it may seem like a deliberately stupid question. Ugh. Muddle.

[AuroraBorealis75]

I'm not quite sure I understand what you were being manipulative about. But I think it's always better to talk about it. I think sometimes I can be manipulative too, but I think that the manipulation is a way of trying to get a certain need met, and it probably would be good to explore that with your therapist. I am sure if you are open and honest about it your therapist will listen.

[RedSun]

Yes, sorry, my post was a muddle. Didn't want to trigger anyone, also didn't want to suggest that something had happened...though it did...

In my therapy, when I talk about stuff that happened when I was younger with a much older family friend, a couple of times my T has called me out for being manipulative (she does it v nicely!) because, basically, I know that what I'm saying happened is abusive, but I say that it's not. Now I'm so worried that by asking what is obviously a stupid question that I know the answer to (except I don't ) she will call me on it again, and I don't know if I can cope with that.

So maybe what I'm saying is, you're right, I have to be manipulative to get a need met, and that need is for someone to tell me the truth until I can hear it. But I feel so fragile about it, I can't cope with having to defend myself...

[PinkFlamingo99]

Originally Posted by Red75

Yes, sorry, my post was a muddle. Didn't want to trigger anyone, also didn't want to suggest that something had happened...though it did...

In my therapy, when I talk about stuff that happened when I was younger with a much older family friend, a couple of times my T has called me out for being manipulative (she does it v nicely!) because, basically, I know that what I'm saying happened is abusive, but I say that it's not. Now I'm so worried that by asking what is obviously a stupid question that I know the answer to (except I don't ) she will call me on it again, and I don't know if I can cope with that.

So maybe what I'm saying is, you're right, I have to be manipulative to get a need met, and that need is for someone to tell me the truth until I can hear it. But I feel so fragile about it, I can't cope with having to defend myself...

I don't think it's about manipulation. In terms of CSA there is so much confusion and I think that needing reassurance is normal.

[ruh roh]

Originally Posted by Red75

Yes, sorry, my post was a muddle. Didn't want to trigger anyone, also didn't want to suggest that something had happened...though it did...

In my therapy, when I talk about stuff that happened when I was younger with a much older family friend, a couple of times my T has called me out for being manipulative (she does it v nicely!) because, basically, I know that what I'm saying happened is abusive, but I say that it's not. Now I'm so worried that by asking what is obviously a stupid question that I know the answer to (except I don't ) she will call me on it again, and I don't know if I can cope with that.

So maybe what I'm saying is, you're right, I have to be manipulative to get a need met, and that need is for someone to tell me the truth until I can hear it. But I feel so fragile about it, I can't cope with having to defend myself...

Geeze. She calls that manipulation? Looking to have someone put a name on what happened as a way to cope with (and face) it?

Sometimes, I will be sharing something through a distorted perspective from my younger life and, even though I might know on one level that it's distorted (a lot of self blame and letting others skate), it feels more real than the truth. But that's a big part of the work, to get all of that out there and see things from a less twisted perspective.

It really helps me when my therapist puts a name on something, though I can't say I ever really looked for her to do that because no one else ever had.

Maybe I missing what this is about? If so, I apologize.

[atisketatasket]

How is that manipulation? I don't get it.

If you want an answer, my advice is to ask and say something like, "This is important to me. I know you may think I am being manipulative, but I disagree, and I would very much like to hear an honest answer."

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Ellahmae]

Originally Posted by PinkFlamingo99

I don't think it's about manipulation. In terms of CSA there is so much confusion and I think that needing reassurance is normal.

This. I don't see how what you're saying is manipulation? Perhaps I'm confused but I don't think anything having to do with CSA or any other type of abuse should be considered manipulation. I may have overstepped by saying that but I don't think we would ever want to manipulate it to occur because of a reward at the end, I see it as the abuser using the "reward" or whatever as the manipulation tool. Not you. My words never come out right so I hope that makes sense and hasn't upset anyone.

Maybe it isn't exactly manipulation. Maybe you need to hear that it wasn't your fault over and over. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[stopdog]

I too am confused at how what you describe could possibly make you the manipulative one.
I think everyone is manipulative in some way or another - it is not abnormal to try to get what you want. And especially not as a child.
I worry much more about a therapist manipulating me or trying to do so.

[littleowl2006]

I know that feeling, and sometimes it can be hard to be open when I am afraid of being manipulative. But in my case sometimes I am also scared of being manipulated into believing something about myself that I am not sure is true. Maybe this uncertainty is the key to the problem, and can be helped by stating things that you know in your heart are true about yourself. To get away from the fears and the twisted picture. Maybe. I could be totally wrong about that. But I think I got what is your point.

[AuroraBorealis75]

Do you think you could say exactly this to your therapist? And I also don't think this is necessarily manipulation. I really don't know anything about you and your therapist, but I think she is putting too much emphasis on you being manipulative, and it's starting to hurt the therapy process because now it seems you are scared to talk about things you need to talk about.

Originally Posted by Red75

Yes, sorry, my post was a muddle. Didn't want to trigger anyone, also didn't want to suggest that something had happened...though it did...

In my therapy, when I talk about stuff that happened when I was younger with a much older family friend, a couple of times my T has called me out for being manipulative (she does it v nicely!) because, basically, I know that what I'm saying happened is abusive, but I say that it's not. Now I'm so worried that by asking what is obviously a stupid question that I know the answer to (except I don't ) she will call me on it again, and I don't know if I can cope with that.

So maybe what I'm saying is, you're right, I have to be manipulative to get a need met, and that need is for someone to tell me the truth until I can hear it. But I feel so fragile about it, I can't cope with having to defend myself...

[PinkFlamingo99]

Have you by any chance been diagnosed with BPD? Sometimes therapists who aren't experienced with it tend to try to obsessively label clients dx'ed with BPD "manipulative." In this case I think it's false, and you are trying to get the reassurance you NEED to move on from a child's understanding of CSA. I see that as a positive.

[AnaWhitney]

I think I get where you are coming from (but correct me if I'm wrong) Do you want to downplay the whole thing in the hope that she will then have to convince you that it was abuse? I have wanted to do this too, because at least then if T had to convince me that it was, it takes away the risk of not being believed or even being blamed.
I have often felt I was being manipulative for wanting to act this way, because if I was braver I'd just come out and say it. Instead I'm trying to pretend I'm not sure so that the certainty comes from someone else, validating me. But underneath all of this I am actually really unsure!
Even though I feel that acting this way would be manipulative, if my T actually thought that too and said this to me, there is no way I would be asking that question either! But I don't think it's a stupid question and I can totally understand why you need to ask it. I think if I was you I would have to discuss this manipulative thing

[RedSun]

AnaW, that's just it. What you said...
And everyone has been so helpful. I guess I need to thrash out the manipulative stuff before I ask any questions, because it is holding up therapy. Okay. How?

[AnaWhitney]

Originally Posted by Red75

AnaW, that's just it. What you said...
And everyone has been so helpful. I guess I need to thrash out the manipulative stuff before I ask any questions, because it is holding up therapy. Okay. How?

That is the hard part! Does your T have experience in dealing with CSA? Hopefully she does and will realise her mistake when you address it. I would bring it right back to why you have this need to be uncertain about it. Ask her if she really thinks that this is you being 'manipulative.' Hopefully the focus will now be on the reasons for your behaviour and she can help to validate you, making it easier to ask your question.
If she still goes with the manipulative thing, I would tell her that this makes you feel misunderstood (if it does) and also afraid to bring up things that you would like to discuss. It really shouldn't go this far though if she is experienced enough in this area, in my opinion.
Let us know how it goes