[stopdog]

I am struck by language that a therapists "gives permission" or "allows" or "does not allow" a client to do or not do something. It is not language I think applies to therapy/therapist for me. I would not respond well if a therapist said such things to me.
Does this sort of language bother others? Or is it okay with you?

[atisketatasket]

I'm slow. Can you give an example in a sentence? Like, do you mean "my therapist allows touch" etc.?

I mean, on the face of it, I agree - "allow" and "permission" suggest some kind of power differential between client and therapist, favoring the latter, that I'm not comfortable with.

[stopdog]

" won't allow me to do x". "Gave me permission to cry"

[Ellahmae]

My T never allows or disallows but often says she gives me permission. I find the permission giving to be helpful to know that what I feel or want to do is actually okay even when my brain has it all twisted around and backwards.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by stopdog

" won't allow me to do x". "Gave me permission to cry"

Oh, yeah. That does bother me. I mean something like "won't allow touch" is OK, because that's personal. But there's a difference between "allows/permits" in the sense of personal boundaries and "allows/permits" in governing the behavior of another.

And as for crying? The way I see it, therapy is my party and I'll cry if I want to.

[Gavinandnikki]

For over 1200 sessions, I said or did whatever the F I wanted to do.

Permission or allowing were terms never discussed. But, also, I never got physically violent or aggressive in session.

I can't imagine asking my therapist for permission to do anything. I'm an adult and paid her good $$$. And that $$$$ was not for her to allow me to do anything.

With one major exception. I wanted hugs. She wouldn't give them. I even offered her 1000$ for 1 hug. No deal.

[brillskep]

"Giving permission" is part of the language of the specific school that my therapist and I were trained in, and I understand it and think it is useful when the therapeutic relationship is good and the client understands / welcomes the therapist's permission as coming from a sort of parental or authority figure, giving healthy messages instead of unhealthy ones the client may have. With that particular meaning, permissions in therapy are important for me. However, my therapist has never explicitly said to me: "I give you permission to do X" which I may or may not find intrusive. He has on rare occasion said things like "you have permission to ..." "you can do X" etc. which I prefer, because it's someone I trust reinforcing something I want to do.

I don't react well to "allow" and "not allow". To me, these sound more powerful, too powerful for a therapeutic relationship. I associate these words with boundaries but I react much better to boundaries stated from equal to equal - e.g. "I need you not to do X so we can work together" rather than "you are not allowed to do X". I feel like no one, therapist or relative or anyone else, has any right to allow or not allow anything in what regards my personal life choices which don't affect others, and I expect everyone (therapist included) to respect that private space I have, just like I respect theirs.

[stopdog]

The second one has said "you can do X" or "I think is is okay to do x" a few times - And my response is always "I am not asking you for permission - I just want to talk about it".
I do not find it useful at all.

[AllHeart]

Thankfully my T has never used such terms. If she did, I would be inclined to do the exact opposite.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Oh, yeah. That does bother me. I mean something like "won't allow touch" is OK, because that's personal. But there's a difference between "allows/permits" in the sense of personal boundaries and "allows/permits" in governing the behavior of another.

Even with a therapist's personal sense - I would never use allow to describe it. I might say - the therapist does not like touch from clients or does not touch- the idea of allow or not would never come to mind. I agree they can choose to do it or not, just like a client, but allow? It still seems the wrong word to me.

[ruh roh]

Mine has used something like this in subtle ways, such as: We can keep talking about this or go back to what you have there (pointing to my notes). It's up to you. I really don't like it when she does that, but it's so minor, I let it go. I don't know what I would do if it came up in terms of her saying she allows this or that.

[NowhereUSA]

I grew up in a strict environment. When my T says to me, "You're allowed to feel X" he's not giving me permission. He's telling me a factual statement - that in life, I am able to have feelings not dictated by other people and that those feelings are valid feelings.

So, not permission, just a reminder of reality.

[stopdog]

For me, I know I can do X or am allowed to feel Y (even there I would never use allow). Allow just is not a word I think, for me, fits. I would be offended if the therapist thought they got to tell me the obvious.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by stopdog

For me, I know I can do X or am allowed to feel Y (even there I would never use allow)

Well - putting this together with your other posts recently about the use for emotions and or feelings - maybe knowing and feeling are two separate tracks. Left brain and right brain. Until the two sides are "integrated" - aka DBT wise mind - we dont have the whole enchilada. To use an old expression!

[Crescent Moon]

I think it's usually an attempt to give a person room to feel the way they feel, etc. The notion of it being 'permission' isn't really intended to be 'permission' as such. And there really are a lot of us that - for whatever reason - feel constricted and it helps to have a therapist confirm that we have a 'right' to feel the way we feel, etc. So you (Stopdog) clearly have absolutely no need for that... But therapists are just trying to facilitate when they tell someone that.

I agree that these words can be innapropriate. I think that a lot of T's don't give enough thought to power issues in the therapeutic relationship, and within mental health services.

[Lauliza]

I've never had a T actually say "I allow you to do x" or give me permission to do anything. I've heard people say it in the context Nowhere uses, where the T says it as a reality check and not to be taken literally. Sometimes it's just conversational and said with a sense of humor, as in "you are allowed to get angry, you know".

I think when I see it on PC that Ts don't "allow" outside contact or hugs, I think the phrasing is coming from the poster's perspective and not always the T. Maybe some Ts do talk this way, but I also think it's also said when the T won't give something that a client wants and it sgifts the dynamic.

[Mygrandjourney]

I guess more context would be helpful to clearly understand this. Many clients come into treatment with no experience in therapy at all or a distant history, for example, having gone to counseling as a child and then not returning to treatment until well into adulthood. So, the rules, such as they are, were those the client was socialized into, such as, "one does not show anger around others". Or, "A man does not cry", or "You shouldn't cry/get angry/show anything other than positive feelings in the company of others", etc. Giving someone permission in therapy is not the permission reflective of a power differential, per se, but rather letting a client know that the therapy session is a safe place to explore and express feelings that might otherwis have no safe/appropriate means of expression. I know I can't control a client's behaviors, but can only guide, suggest, gently reinforce and persuade.
Many lay people see situations such as that of Brian Wilson and his relationship with his therapist and may generalize that situation to all therapist/client relationships.

[stopdog]

Whatever context a poster wants to put it in. I can think of no context for me where it would be appropriate for the therapist to do such things with or without the language. I don't look to the therapist for suggestion, guidance, or reinforcement and most certainly not persuasion. I do think some therapists actually use the word permission.
I don't know about allow. I would not think to use such language about myself and a therapist.

[NowhereUSA]

Different people need different things or want different things.

I need the reminder because I was constantly told how I "should" feel and I still slip back into those thought patterns. Even my husband will remind me that I'm "allowed" to feel something. He's not giving me permission either. Since I don't care about the word, it works for me.

[stopdog]

I agree if it works have at it. I too was told what not to feel or to feel. But someone else telling me something is allowed or even is okay
does not help me at all.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I agree if it works have at it. I too was told what not to feel or to feel. But someone else telling me something is allowed or even is okay
does not help me at all.

And it does not help you because...

You already know whats okay or not? Everything is okay? Nothing is okay? There is no such thing as okay? It does sound silly now. I think its more of a "there there, its gonna be okay". Well unless a meteor is headed this way, yes of course its going to be OKAY. Its meaningless soothing noises? Those can be irritating if you are not connected to the entity the noises are coming from. Otherwise i find them okay.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by hankster

And it does not help you because...


You already know whats okay or not? Everything is okay? Nothing is okay? There is no such thing as okay? It does sound silly now. I think its more of a "there there, its gonna be okay". Well unless a meteor is headed this way, yes of course its going to be OKAY. Its meaningless soothing noises? Those can be irritating if you are not connected to the entity the noises are coming from. Otherwise i find them okay.

I think stopdog means she knows what works for her?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

I think stopdog means she knows what works for her?

Im not disagreeing with stopdog. This is reminding me of when i would visit my mother and feel more warmly greeted by the pitbull next door, with whom i deduced i had a better connection. I think my mother and i found each other irritating and intrusive.

[Crescent Moon]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Whatever context a poster wants to put it in. I can think of no context for me where it would be appropriate for the therapist to do such things with or without the language. I don't look to the therapist for suggestion, guidance, or reinforcement and most certainly not persuasion. I do think some therapists actually use the word permission.
I don't know about allow. I would not think to use such language about myself and a therapist.

Yeah... They definitely use the word "you have my permission to...". Mine has used it a couple of times. It didn't bother me.. I knew what she meant. I'd just think that a client saying 'I am not in need of your permission' would be enough to put them on notice that it won't fly with that client.

I think if I said that to my therapist, she would smile... explain the intended meaning... and would assure me she would not use the phrase again.