Hypnosis

ECHOES,

When I'm working with clients that have a therapist, I work with referral from that therapist, as well as having a signed release so I can talk to the therapist about the client. This way I can get a complete background and the therapists thoughts. It also helps to make sure I am working with the client on the things that the therapist wants me to be working on.

Does that make sense?

Rick

Thanks for making me feel welcome!!!

Hi Rick!

I will agree with one of the other posts that hypnosis is not psychotherapy (though I could see it being used as a technique during a psychotherapeutic relationship). However, I don't think that's negative. They're just two different things. I don't know much about hypnosis myself. I suspect that it would not be effective for me as I doubt I'm very suggestible. But I'd be interested in reading about it if you wanted to give us a brief description. What exactly goes on? I imagine it's different than the occasional hypnosis entertainment we see in magic shows!

Sidony

Sidony, It is very much different then stage hypnosis....

I copied this from a post I wrote on the NeuroTalk side...

I have talked for hours before explaining what hypnosis is and how it works. I actually do complete seminars and communty education classes at the college just for that. But lets see what we can get done on here......

1. All hypnosis is self hypnosis. Even when you work with a hypnotherapist - you are hypnotizing yourself, with their guidance. That's all I am - a tour guide on your mental vacation.

2. Everyone uses hypnosis everyday. They just don't call it hypnosis. They call it zoneing out, day dreaming, ect. The most basic discription of hypnosis is "The ability to concentrate on one thought, whereby excluding all others" or focased concentration. So anytime you are concentrating on that one thought - YOUR THERE...... Even when you dream in your sleep, your technically in the hypnotic state, not asleep. Have you ever watched a movie or read a book and got emotional? Have you ever driven down a stretch of road you drive often, and sometimes you don't remember part of the drive? These are all examples of hypnosis.

3. Hypnosis is not mind control. Your subconcious mind is always in control. It either excepts or rejects each suggestions given by the hypnotherapist, based on your moral and ethical boundrys. For the most part, you will hear and remember everything that happens in your sessions. Hypnosis feels like your sitting in the chair with your eyes closed. That is it !!!! Some people feel additional sensations, but not all. At anypoint you needed to open your eyes and walk out of the room, you could!!!

4. You can move in hypnosis, you can talk in hypnosis. You can lie in hypnosis if your subconcious mind feels strong enough about the lie.

Ok I can go on forever. I think this will give everyone a good start. This will prompt a number of questions I'm sure. I'll answer those and then well keep going. Keep in mind that hypnosis is a natural state of mind that everyone uses everyday.

Rick

Interesting!

I never knew any of that. If that's hypnosis, then I'm definitely practicing it when I work out at the gym and let my mind wander. :-)

What then is the stage show control stuff? Just an unhelpful (therapeutically speaking) way of manipulating the same technique? Or is it totally different?

Sidony

Rick, is everyone capable of being hypnotized? I've always wondered about it, but didn't know if it would work for me. I don't know that I could ever relax enough to allow it to work.

sidony,

For the most part the stage hypnosis is the same thing, but for entertainment. They volunteered to go up on stage, they willingly accept their suggestions because after-all they when there to have fun. Now I have seen stage shows where the participant refused the suggestion. Not real common, but it happens.

As far as being in hypnosis while at the gym. ABSOLUTELY!!! Athletes call it "Being in the Zone". Micheal Jordon and Tiger Woods use self hypnosis everyday!!!!

ClairB,

All hypnosis is self hypnosis; anyone who wants to be hypnotized can be, because they are hypnotizing themselves!! If you can concentrate on a single thought. You can use hypnosis.

But you have to be willing to relax and let go. If you are scared or unwilling to relax - you will not be able to get into hypnosis.

I have CD's I sell some clients, that has a single goal - get the client into hypnosis. I call it a conditioning CD. Just gets the client used to they procedure.

Rick

Rick, thanks for the info. Might be something to check out in the future.

ClairB,

Your welcome. I'm here to learn and teach.

If anyone has any questions, please feel free to post here or PM me.

Rick

I'm not sure I believe in hypnosis...... maybe it scares me?? or maybe I'm just a skeptic???

I think personally, I don't want to be hypnotized, as I think it would feel like someone is intentionally trying to get me to dissociate..... I don't like when it happens by accident-- let alone on purpose!

So my answer to your original question... Is hypnosis Psychotherapy?....... I would answer- "NO, I don't think it would be helpful to me, think it might do more harm-- so I would not consider it therapy as therapy is supposed to be helpful.... but that's just my opinion.

mandy

Mandy,

It's interesting that you said that. When I first dealt with abuse issues 16 years ago I use to disassociate all the time and it wasn't intentional.

When I began hynotherapy about a month ago, the first time he performed the hypnosis I took to it very well. You do not go unconscious, and you are aware of everything happening. What was odd was when he "brought me back" he asked how it felt and what I thought it was like.

My answer was that it reminded me of disassociating - he asked if that was good or bad and it was really good. It was like the good part of disassociating. I wanted to do it, I had control over it, so it was an extremely relaxing and peaceful experience.

Tranquility

mandyfins,

Hypnosis doesn't dissociate, it integrates !!!!!!

I encourage you to read all of the posts above. They give a good basic description of what hypnosis is and how everyone uses it everyday.

Thank you for your post.

Rick

hypnosis has been used for quite some time. mesmer and charcot and the like...

some people are more hypnotisable than others so hypnotism is not suitable for everybody.

if you extend the notion of 'hypnosis' to cover talk therapy and everyday experiences of altered consciousness you can of course maintain that all therapists use hypnotism, but typically people keep 'hypnotism' to refer to the therapist (or practitioner) using methods of formal induction. of course there is something of a blurry line, but i would say that guided imagery (imagine a calming place) while being a hypnotic technique (a suggestion) doesn't really constitute formal hypnosis.

hypnosis has been subjected to a great deal of controversy particularly with respect to the veridicality (truthfulness or accuracy) of memories recovered during a hypnotic induction. hypnosis is often contra-indicated for memory / trauma work because it has become rather renouned for producing confabulations in the subjects.

with respect to smoking cessation / weight loss etc i'm wondering if the studies that have been done on the efficacy of hypnosis controlled for placebo effect. placebo effect for an innert medication, even. of course that isn't the best control group to have... but hypnosis basically works through the power of suggestion, so i'd be interested to know whehter the response is greater than placebo. (placebo response is of course a response and i'm not meaning to undermine it).

hypnosis has also been critiqued with respect to producing elaborations on states of fragmentation (for elaborating people who are dissociated into distinct personalities or identities).

with what i've learned in psychology (including clinical psychology) and in psychiatry... hypnosis isn't used very often anymore in those fields and yes, there is a widespread concern about whether hypnosis helps or harms all things considered...

> I don't quite understand with all of the research and articles writen by very reputable sources, why some people would rather suffer with their issues then use hypnosis.

well... maybe because of this other literature that has been written by very reputable sources which expresses a great deal of concern about the potential harmfulness of hypnosis...

Alexandra,

Thank you for your post.

Hypnosis has been used as far back as records have been kept, and yes your right - hypnosis is not right for everyone.

Your right in stating that guided imagery is a hypnotic technique. It can be used as an induction, or as a suggestion, and sometimes as both. Either way it is still by-passing the critical factor and accessing the sub-conscious mind, therefore it is hypnosis.

Your very correct in stating that there is definitely controversy regarding the use of hypnosis for the recovery of memories. The main issue here is the problem of leading the client. If you lead the client in ANY way, there is a possibility that you can create false memories. This is why most states don't allow evidence brought about through a formal hypnotic process to be allowed in courts. Yet there are still many police departments using specially trained forensic hypnotists to aid in investigations.

With regards to smoking cessation. There is a 1992 meta-analysis by Chockalingam & Schmidt that shows hypnosis as the second most successful way to quit smoking. Second only to a cardiac event. This analysis totaled 633 studies and 71,806 subjects. This analysis also shows that hypnosis was more successful then all other forms of smoking cessation combined. Now being that this is just a meta-analysis and Chockalingam & Schmidt didn't do the research themselves I'm sure some of the studies could have been conducted in a more scientific fashion. But with 633 studies totalled, the overall result stands. Hypnosis is very successful with those clients that truly want to quit.

As far as the plecebo effect is concerned. I've had this discussion with many different people. Nobody seems to know a way to put a scientific study together in regards to hypnosis and the plecobo effect. Being that all hypnosis is self hypnosis, you could take a person off the street that has no training, (or has never heard of hypnosis) hand them a story to read to a "client", and they would induce a hypnotic state into the "client" (as long as the "client" was willing to enter hypnosis). Therefore there is no way to discern a hypnotic state induced by a hypnotherapist and a plecebo effect by a non trained individual.

I have seen research in regards to elaborations & hypnosis. I have been unable to find it again. I do not work with clients that have a diagnosis of DID or the like. I have a very well respected psychologist in town, that uses hypnosis every day in his practice, I refere those clients to him. Therefore I am not in a place to comment on this subject.

As far as hypnosis not being used by licensed mental health professionals. I have never been in training where there wasn't a licensed mental health professional in the room taking training as well. Maybe in the area or state you live in this is not the case. In the state and area I live in, there is alot of them trained in hypnosis and using it in their daily therapy. I've also talked to quite a few therapists that have only been in practice for a few years, and they stated that they were required to have a "basic understanding" of hypnosis to graducate. There again, this may very well be different from state to state or school to school.

As far as there being many contridictory research about hypnosis, your right. But as with anything else it seems like you can always find "research" or "professionals" to back up your opinion. I believe the research done by Dr. David Spiegel (http://med.stanford.edu/profiles/David_Spiegel/ ) has been outstanding. He spends a lot of his time researching hypnosis for Stanford University. With 214 research articles writen, as well as numerous books, he is well versed in the mind body connection. In 2003 he was awarded "The Division 30 Award for Distinguished Contributions to Professional Hypnosis" by The American Psychological Association and is currently an Associate Chair on the Stanford University School of Medicine - Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences.

I suggest anyone that has questions about hypnosis follow the link provided to his profile and research.

Again Alexandra, Thank you for the post. I hope this gives more info to those people who had questions about hypnosis, and wether it is right for them.

Rick

> Your right in stating that guided imagery is a hypnotic technique. It can be used as an induction, or as a suggestion, and sometimes as both. Either way it is still by-passing the critical factor and accessing the sub-conscious mind, therefore it is hypnosis.

Well... To the best of my knowledge it is very controversial precisely what is going on when people are hypnotised. It is very controversial whether people are going into trance or an altered state of consciousness (indeed, it is very controversial what the nature of these states is). Spanos has a socio-cognitive role enactment theory of hypnotism, for example. The 'sub-conscious mind' (in the psychodynamic sense) is also very controversial...

But I do see how guided imagery is about suggesting relaxation similarly to how other techniques are about suggesting giving up smoking or losing weight or whatever.

> Your very correct in stating that there is definitely controversy regarding the use of hypnosis for the recovery of memories. The main issue here is the problem of leading the client.

yes. though i do think that leading the client can be a whole heap more subtle than is commonly acknowledged and i also think that it is possible for a client to lead themselves. for example... client goes to the self help section of the bookstore and finds this book with a little checklist in the back. roughly along the lines of 'do you have some of the following symtpoms? - anxiety, depression, feeling tired sometimes, etc [basically non descript symptoms]. if so then you have probably been sexually abused'. client gets to thinking that maybe they have been sexually abused but they simply don't remember it... client starts to become convinced that they have been but they simply don't remember it. client thinks about this all the time trying to find the memory trying to find the memory. because it is on the clients mind all the time scenes are more likely to occur to them when they are dreaming or when they are under hypnosis. the scene is then accepted as veridical and thus a false memory is born. not due to the hypnotist leading the client to be sure, but due to the client leading themself. therapist suggestion can be even more subtle if the therapist thinks that severe abuse is the best explanation for their clients difficulties hypnotisable clients are very adept at picking up on the non-verbal cues and 'playing along'. i'm very very wary indeed about the use of hypnosis for memory work.

there is one possible exception:

> Yet there are still many police departments using specially trained forensic hypnotists to aid in investigations.

if someone is hypnotised in order to attempt to remember a lisence plate number of a car then there is no harm that follows from confabulating the lisence plate number.

i didn't know that about the smoking study. interesting. i'll have a look at that at some point...

> Hypnosis is very successful with those clients that truly want to quit.

one does of course want to be careful about implying that those who truely want to quit quit while those who don't truely want to quit don't quit.

i wonder if it had more to do with the hypnotisability of subjects (which is heavily dependent on their belief that hypnotism will work for them). what i mean to say is that if the control group consisted in similarly hypnotisable subjects who had the belief that the patches and / or gum would work for them then i wonder what the difference would be between the experimental group and the control. no idea...

> Nobody seems to know a way to put a scientific study together in regards to hypnosis and the plecobo effect.

part of that is the difficulty around differentiating a hypnotised state from a non hypnotised state. one needs to know what a hypnotised state is to ensure that the control group isn't hypnotised.

> Being that all hypnosis is self hypnosis, you could take a person off the street that has no training, (or has never heard of hypnosis) hand them a story to read to a "client", and they would induce a hypnotic state into the "client" (as long as the "client" was willing to enter hypnosis).

There are of course formal methods of induction which people get better at with experience. Part of the battle is in persuading the person that the hypnotist does indeed have the power to hypnotise them. E.g., get them to close their eyes and hold their arms straight out until their arms are tired and are starting to droop. At precisely the point at which you see them start to droop say 'your arms are feeling verrrrrrrrrrry heeeeeeeeeeavy. If the arms droop a little more in response then say something like 'your arms are becoming even heeeeeeeavier' or if they raise them in response say something like 'your arms are now starting to feel light light as a feather'. There are skills about voice intonation and little exercises involving physically tiring certain muscle groups in order to make the suggestions a little more compelling and believable...

But these are things to do with inducing a hypnotic state (assuming their is such a thing). Some people simply don't 'fall for it' they simply remain sceptical throughout the clinicians suggestions. Sometimes because of fear of what they might do while hypnotised (sometimes because of fear of losing control) sometimes because they just consider the whole thing to be a crock.

> Therefore there is no way to discern a hypnotic state induced by a hypnotherapist and a plecebo effect by a non trained individual.

This is what concerns me with respect to the validity of the 'hypnotised state' and 'not hypnotised state' distinction.

I'm in Australasia. To the best of my knowledge while psychologists / psychologists learn about hypnotism enough to be cautious about its application in memory work and learn some skills like guided imagery and progressive muscle relaxation they are not taught formal methods of induction.

There are outfits which do teach formal methods of induction but the biggest group of practitioners seem to be polytechnic trained councellors (who take a course that ranges anywhere from one six week paper to a three year program). There are some psychologists / psyciatrists who use formal methods of induction, I'm sure. I do think it is fair to say that the majority do not, however.

Are you able to tell me what state you are in?

I'll check out Spiegel, thanks for the link.

Just wanted to throw in that my psychologist studied hpnotherapy beyond her formal education and training because of her interest in it as a treatment modality especially for trauma. She also has a goal of using it in her retirement to help children with chronic physical pain. When she told me about that, after we had done a few guided imagery sessions, I was curious. She had been explaining to me, in answer to my questions, about why textures and colors are used in the guided imageries we'd been doing. She told me about what those things told her and then she told me how visualizing a color can revlieve pain for some people, not all. She asked if I had any pain at the moment. I had been having some post-op pain and had it at that moment. We did a very short imagery where I was to imagine a color (orange or purple... can't remember which). Just doing that relieved the pain and it was so surprising because I was completely skeptical.

There were times I left her office so relaxed I felt like I was floating. I felt like I'd had a short vacation in that hour. I can't get that same effect on my own which is one reason I'd like to return sometime.

Rick,

I jumped to the last page to post this, so it may have already been asked.

What is the difference between "hypnosis" and "hypnotherapy"?

<font color="purple">edited to correct pre-coffee typo. lol </font>

ECHOES,

Pre-coffee type O That's funny!!!!

Most of the time the terms are used interchangeably. In some states of the US you are not allowed to use the title of hypnotherapist unless you are a licensed mental health professional. The state I am in (ILLINOIS) does not currently have this law. I prefer to use the hypnotherapy name because it differentiates me from those using hypnosis for entertainment.

So that in my eyes is the main difference, one uses hypnosis to help the client achieve their goals, and the other uses it for entertainment.

But like I stated, alot of people who are using hypnosis to help their clients are restricted to using the 'hypnotist" title. Therefore they will refer to it as hypnosis instead of hypnotherapy.

I hope this helps clear up your question.

Rick

alexandra,

I have seen research that used a PET scan to scan the brain in hypnosis and out of hypnosis. Those researchers determined that hypnosis was real based on different areas of the brain being used in different ways and to answer different questions. I am not a neurologist, I can only trust they know what they are doing.

As far as leading the clients, you are absolutely correct. If someone tells them self over and over again that "something" happened to them. Then that false memory will eventually be "burnt" into their memory. They will believe it absolutely happened, even if it really didn't. This is truly a big pothole in memory work.

It is my belief and profession opinion that if someone truly wants to quit smoking and believes that they will quit with hypnosis then it will work. If they truly believe they will quit with the patch or pills. Then they will quit. I believe that nothing changes until you change your mind.

> "To the best of my knowledge while psychologists / psychologists learn about hypnotism enough to be cautious about its application in memory work and learn some skills like guided imagery and progressive muscle relaxation they are not taught formal methods of induction."

I use guided imagery and progressive relaxation as an induction all the time. With some clients, this is my preferred method.

Please don't take this the wrong way....
You obviously have the training nessasary to use hypnosis in your practice (if you have a practice). You just seem to be lacking faith in hypnosis as a tool to help your clients. Given what I have been able to gather about your background and training, it sounds like you have many tools in your tool belt to help your clients with. Hypnosis is just another tool that may help your clients.

Rick

"leading" can be done in hypnosis and also in therapy, so there is that to consider in both experiences.

Rick, are there self-hypnosis CD's you recommend? I have purchased from www.wholeperson.com several times and I like what I have from there. It's where my psychologist had purchased some tapes she loaned to me.

ECHOES,

What kind of CD'S are you wanting? I have alot of CD's but I am not set up to sell across the net.

I didn't get into this profession to sell CD's like some did. I got into it to help people - I need them in my office to do that.

Rick

Oh, I realize you aren't out to sell CD's. Sorry if that seemed implied because really it wasn't meant that way at all.

I just like having CD's to use. I have relaxation, progressive relaxation, guided imagery, and autogenics.

I enjoy them and just wondered if you had ideas for more.

I feel that you are very sincere and genuine and here to educate and help. I'm glad you're here and you have rekindled my interest in hypnotherapy! I hope I haven't offended you with my question.

ECHOES

ECHOES,

You didn't offend me at all.

I teach all of my clients self hypnosis. The best hypnosis session is the one that is personalized to the individual client. With this in mind, without recording a CD specifically for one client, it doesn't work as well as a personalized one.

The other reason I don't sell or push very many CD's is that I don't want my clients to be "hung up on" a CD. If they know self-hypnosis they can do so much more then any CD could ever provide. They can do their self-hypnosis to work with the issues they are having at that second, and of course it will be personalized to them !!! And then if an hour later they have a different issue, they can use their self-hypnosis for that issue.

If you are walking through the mall or are on vacation and you don't have a CD or CD player, without self-hypnosis you can't help yourself. This is why I push the art of self-hypnosis sooo much.

Rick

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Rick61701 said:
Most of the time the terms are used interchangeably. In some states of the US you are not allowed to use the title of hypnotherapist unless you are a licensed mental health professional. The state I am in (ILLINOIS) does not currently have this law. I prefer to use the hypnotherapy name because it differentiates me from those using hypnosis for entertainment.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I just thought I'd mention that that might be confusing for some people. For me, I would assume someone who called themselves a hypnotherapist was also formally trained as a mental health professional. So that might come across as misleading. Now I have no clue what the law is even in my state, but that's what I would have assumed from your title. I don't know what other name would differentiate you from an entertainment hypnotist, but I think "hypnotherapist" could cause some incorrect assumptions.

I hope you don't take offense at that -- I just thought it was worth mentioning.

Sidony

Thanks Rick,

Actually I do use what I've learned. I walk at lunch at work and I can do relaxation and breathing exercises while I walk. It's almost like a meditation. I loosen up phsyically and mentally.

Also I use what I've learned to ward off panic attacks and to relax when I feel things (muscles, face, etc) beginto tighten up and lead to who knows what!

Thanks so much for your reply. Glad that I didn't offend you!

ECHOES