Frustration and unrealistic expectations?

First, I hope it's OK to post in this thread because, while it's mainly about H, I'm looking for more input before bringing it up in marriage counseling this week. Last weekend, H was supposed to take part in a 5-day event a state away related to a hobby of his. It was something he was looking forward to. But it would also leave me mostly in charge of our 4.5-year-old daughter (DD) for that time. She's on the high-functioning end of the autism spectrum and can be a bit of a challenge. And she's been particularly defiant lately. (Though I'm sure the challenge is partly due to her age, not just her diagnosis.) I've been having lots of anxiety issues lately, including panic attacks (this is coming off a depressive episode). Halfway through the 5 days, I had a really bad panic attack while at home with DD. Like, having trouble breathing, sobbing, etc., lasting for over a half hour. Freaking out about being in charge of her for the next 2.5 days. Texted T, who called me back and helped me figure out whether I should talk to H about cutting the event short.

Talked to H when he got home that night, and he agreed to be there just the morning of the last day, not the evening. Seemed OK with it, I was relieved. But then in marriage counseling a few days later, I asked him about it more, and he said it was frustrating that he had to cut the event short. Of course MC was all like, "Hey, it's good you were open with each other and you got through it, and now everything's great." But then I asked H about it again later, and he said it was really frustrating to him that I couldn't deal with DD for long stretches of time. (I tend to get stressed if she's off school a few days, etc.) Which made me feel kind of incompetent as a mother. Like I should be able to handle it.

A couple nights later, said I'd been thinking about it, and what if I had a chronic physical illness rather than a mental one. Used a friend's rheumatoid arthritis as an example, saying what if some days I was just in too much physical pain to handle DD all day. He said he'd be frustrated by that, too. And I was like, "But you wouldn't actually tell me, right? Because it wouldn't be something I could control or did on purpose?" And he said he probably would tell me, saying that he'd want to be honest and that it would be frustrating. I said that would really bother me, that it's not like I would tell DD that her ASD frustrated me, even if it did. And H said that was different, because it's a parent-child relationship. And that I'd said in counseling that I wanted him to be honest with me, and then he was, and I'm upset about it.

After stepping away a bit, I said it was hard knowing he was frustrated, because I'm already upset with myself and feel bad that he has to put up with me. Knowing he feels that way makes me want to hide more of my anxiety from him. And makes me reluctant to ask for help when I need it. I said that I wanted understanding and compassion from him, like for him to understand that it's not like I want to be this way, for him to feel bad that I'm struggling. And he said he did, but that it was still frustrating. And that it's normal for people to get frustrated.

Then I was just kind of teary. Basically, I just feel like a burden. And an incompetent mother (even though I love DD dearly and go to great lengths for her, including research on things to help her ASD, holding off on going back to work full-time so I can go to speech therapy with her and be there when she gets off the bus, etc.). It's not like I'm not trying to get better--I see my T weekly, my p-doc every few weeks (though not sure how much meds are helping), and we see MC weekly.

What also scares me is what if I do end up with a chronic (or acute) physical health condition? Will he be like, "Gees, your cancer really frustrates me. I mean, you have no energy because of the chemo, and that's really annoying." I mean, do people actually say that type of stuff to people they love with chronic illnesses, whether mental or physical?

I think I just worry about bringing this up in marriage counseling and being shot down. Partly because I know MC's wife has a chronic health condition. From what I know of him, I really can't believe he'd ever say to her face that he found her health issues frustrating, even if he felt that way. Yet there's part of me that's afraid he'll agree with H. Or that he'll praise H for how much he's been there for me. Which will just make me feel worse. MC also has anxiety issues, so in some ways I think he understands. Plus I think there's a bit of countertransference of some sort--likely paternal, since he has a daughter who's also had anxiety issues--but I think he sometimes almost overcorrects for that, like tries so hard not to seem like he could be siding with me, that he overpraises H. Which makes me feel bad (because even though it's not what he's saying, it makes me feel like, "wow, H is so great. He's such a saint for putting up with you!") Because although MC has been incredibly supportive of me individually (including with the transference stuff), both within joint sessions and in some individual phone calls/texts/e-mails, I don't think he's ever in session emphasized how great a wife I'm being or anything. So I don't want to be walking into a situation where I'm going to try to say why I'm upset, only for him to be like, "Yeah, H is right!" or something.

Ugh, this is ridiculously long. So here's what I'm looking for insight on: I get that H is frustrated with me. I know--I can be annoying to live with. But is it wrong for me to expect him to generally keep that frustration to himself? When it deals with mental illnesses that I'd of course rather not have? Because the thing is, the way I am, I do generally keep frustration and anger (at him, DD< or anyone) inside. And maybe I'm just weird, and most couples are like, "Gees, it's so frustrating you're diabetic!" or "Ugh, I hate that you're bipolar!" to each other.

Thanks for reading.

Lonesome,

I like the ring theory a lot - http://lifehacker.com/use-the-ring-t...eone-977848409

Comfort in, dump out. As in H doesn't dump in on you about your anxiety (like how you don't dump in on your daughter's ASD), but he gets to dump to other people like friends of his.

I think you're in a really tough long term situation, without extended family etc which would make things easier.

I agree with QuietMind tc

Sorry to hear things are so tough right now Lonesome. I think the situation you describe is difficult and complicated, and one thing that strikes me is that it might be important to have a discussion with H in MC around boundaries which strike a balance between emotional honesty and speaking considerately to one another.
It really sounds like your H lacked tact, though I can understand from his point of view that you might have expected honesty from him in counselling. I'm wondering if MC might be able to offer him (or you both) any practical skills for managing openness without hurting each other's feelings.
I would also have a conversation with MC (whether with or without H present) regarding what you described here as MC overcompensating and praising H more than you. I think it's important to make your feelings heard about that because MC might not even be aware he's doing it, and it ought to be flagged up before it becomes an unhealthy/negative reenforcement pattern or H starts using it as ammunition (again that could all happen subconsciously).
I just want to reassure you about your daughter - please remember that a good parent is not one that can always cope and always gets things right (no such person exists!) A good parent is one who recognises when they are not coping and seeks appropriate help to minimise the impact to their child. That is something you are very good at, and that is admirable and courageous. It would be a shame if that skill was negatively impacted by H's disappointment and frustration.
I hope you're both able to use this as an opportunity to further constructive communication in the relationship and with MC

I think it's good that his honest.
It is hard parenting, let alone parenting when one has issues. But yes, it is hard on our partners too. But if we don't have a little time away, both parents, then it can make things even more frustrating.
Can you not organise things to do with your daughter the time hubbies away?
I had 3 kids, twins too, is not easy, but we have to blindly keep trudging. No matter what we're going through.
Good luck.

LT - just two thoughts.

One, it has often struck me from your posts here that your marriage counseling is awfully one-sided in your husband's favor. The issue needs to be addressed if it's going to achieve anything.

And two, I am wondering how your husband would cope with five days alone with your daughter? You essentially made your life harder so he could do something he wanted to do; has there been no appreciation of that? No offer of reciprocity in some form?

Thanks, Quiet. I wasn't familiar with the Ring Theory before, so thanks for sharing. I like the idea of it. I figure I partly use individual therapy for that--to have a place to dump things rather than H or DD. I'm trying to explain to my H that it's OK to be frustrated, but I'd prefer if he didn't tell me about it. Sure, he can talk about his frustrations with his job with me all he wants, or about DD when she's not sitting right there (he tends to snap at her, too). But telling me he's frustrated about something that is just a part of me, that's something I'm struggling with, feeling bad about, and trying to work on--I just don't see how it's constructive for our relationship to share those frustrated feelings with *me*.

He does need to share them somewhere--yet the one friend he seems OK confiding in (who, incidentally, has an MS in psychology), he only sees once a month or so, and they don't really communicate otherwise. He has a bunch of other friends, but he really doesn't confide in them. Talks to his dad about some stuff at times. But not to his mom or sister. I think it would help if he had his own T, but I doubt he'd be willing to do that because he wouldn't think it's necessary (MC is really his first experience with therapy, though I think he saw a psychiatrist a bit as a kid for ADD stuff.)

And we do have some extended family around who will watch DD some, like his mom usually watched her a few hours one night a week so H and I can get dinner out and an overnight once every couple weeks. But she's not in very good health, and I know DD exhausts her. H's dad and stepmom, maybe once every two months, even thought they live close by (they're just really busy). My parents do an overnight maybe once a month, and we'll meet up with them sometimes besides that, but they're an hour away, and I often feel stressed visiting them (I'm an only child). H's sister lives about an hour away but, yeah, definitely wouldn't leave DD at their place for any extended period of time (she's married but their house isn't exactly kid-proof--when we were there for T-giving 2 years ago, various things I had to grab as DD was reaching for them included a car batter jump-starter and a bottle of the nicotine liquid for e-cigarettes).

T has said we need to find a non-family babysitter that we trust so that we can, say, go out on a Friday when our families aren't available or that could maybe help me out on one of DD's days off (I work freelance from home, which is another issue in the equation--if she's home, I can't get stuff done).

OK, I've gone on enough--it really helps to have this forum as a place to get empathy and understanding, too. (And to get a reality check if I'm being unreasonable).

(will respond more to everyone else in a bit!)

You have a valid concern here.

If you are experiencing marriage counseling as a reinforcement of some belief that you're a burden, incompetent, less than, someone to put up with...I would definitely think that's something to take to sessions with your husband. Maybe your therapist can help you frame how you present it so that you're sure to get the message across that you are under a great deal of stress as the parent of a child with a disability. It's not a you thing. It's not a daughter thing. It's a recognized life thing--a huge stress. (In fact, you might want to google Parent to Parent and see if there's a chapter near you. Where I live, they pair young parents with other parents who have a child with a similar disability who are a little further along the road, and they provide emotional support and connection as well).

I agree with atisket that it would be good for your husband to experience 5 days without help from you in caring for your daughter. It might be eye opening.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that you have a valid concern. On a deeper level, all of this is mirroring a belief you have about yourself that's not serving you at all. I've found in my own life that others are more than happy to accommodate my own negative view of myself. It works out pretty well for them, in fact. So, it's a two sided thing. They can't buy into you as the bad person if you don't promote yourself that way. But first, you have to believe that it's a false idea before anyone else will follow suit. Some never will. But that can't be your issue.

I never believe it when someone characterizes their transference as paternal or maternal, for one thing; i just go with plain old transference. I see a distance, rather than a partnership, between you and your h, like he has to take care of you the same way you take care of your daughter. How to change that dynamic would be my focus.

One of the hardest things to learn in my marriage was that we had to be able to be honest with each other, including about our frustrations about each other, AND that just because we communicate our frustration doesn't mean we have to feel guilty about it. Not communicating those frustrations just creates more frustration; being able to just voice it, relieves the tension so we can move on. We don't have to feel guilty about being honest, AND we don't have to fix each other's frustrations. They just are what they are.

I live on both sides of the equation. I have had my mental health issues and so has my husband. My husband has serious physical health issues. Yes, we get frustrated at times when we feel like we are having to deal with each others' health issues, both mental and physical. It's perfectly normal; we're human. We've learned we can be honest about that without it really being about the other person -- that it is really more about us and our feelings at the time. We can be there to allow each other to be open about that, say thank-you for telling me or thank-you for listening, and we can move on. Arriving at that place in our marriage was the point when we truly learned to be honest and validating toward each other. We spent FAR too many years hiding our illness and our feelings from each other to try to protect each other and make each other feel better. It nearly destroyed our marriage. The honesty is much easier and healthier in the long-run and our marriage has never been better.

This is only a short comment due to time (sorry) my understanding is that he did keep the frustration to himself. He cam back and took care of things, it was only when pressed in MC that he let you know his frustration. This was the honest answer to how he felt. Am I reading this the right way? If so then I think it a good starting point to work on that he expressed it. I wouldn't ask how he feels about things if I don't want to know the answer.

Having been a carer for someone with mental illness as well as physical disability, I think it's ok to be angry, annoyed, frustrated at the illness but not the person. Very hard to separate the two though sometimes.

Thanks, Echos. I know part of the issue is the difference in our childhood experiences. My parents very rarely expressed anger at me or each other--if they did, it was a huge deal. My mom (and dad, I guess) also tend to keep any negative emotions inside. So sometimes I wouldn't know if they were actually upset with me (or each other). Which leads me to worry that people close to me are upset with me but not saying anything. Meanwhile, H's parents fought quite often and also yelled at H and his sister. So H sees that as normal. So to him, if no one is saying something, everything is fine, I guess.

Yeah, H did actually say that, how I wanted him to be honest, so he was, and now I'm upset with him for being honest. I think what I wanted was for him to honestly not be bothered by it... and to feel compassionate for me in general for having to deal with the anxiety, depression, etc. Where instead, it seems like I feel bad that he has to deal with it and *he* also feels bad that he has to deal with it... Whereas, I'd want it to be more like, I feel bad that he has to deal with me, and he might feel a bit bad about that, but would feel worse that I had to deal with anxiety and depression. Because, it's not like I choose to be this way!

That's something that I've considered, too. I think in some past post, I said how it's like MC tries to build me up to me, like make me realize that I'm stronger than I think, that I don't need to be a perfect parent, that I'm not "a mess," etc. But then it's also like he tries to build H up to me--and I guess make H feel good about how he's handling things. I think that's due to a couple factors. One being the whole transference thing, which H knows about. MC is trying to share his own failings and shortcomings to make me realize he's definitely not some ideal husband and father. And then is trying to build H up to me, to show me that H really cares and is there for me, so it's safe to rely on and trust him.

Plus, because MC has been supportive of me outside of sessions--and also within sessions, like with MC being very empathic toward me with his voice, eyes, body language, etc. (which is all stuff that H claims he learned in "therapy school" and none of it is natural or like a sign he genuinely cares. To which I've said that I think at least some of it is genuine, and that if he could learn to act in a way that makes me feel heard and understood, so could H.) MC probably is trying to avoid looking any more biased toward me, so he's overcompensating by how he's acting about H. And I think in general he's trying to be as balanced as possible. There have been a few things I've told T about that MC has said in our sessions, and she's been like, "He said that? Why did he say that?" (Like one maybe a year ago where he said so what if maybe H didn't have empathy? Even though he thought he did.)

So maybe I'll see how tomorrow's session goes, and if it starts seeming like MC is falling into praising H mode, I'll either say something then or e-mail (or text or call) him about it afterward. Because right now, I feel like I'm going in there tomorrow expecting that to happen, and that's no good.

MC has talked before about being "the good enough parent," because no one is going to be the perfect parent. Thanks for what you said about my realizing when I'm not coping and trying to not take that out on DD. I'm also a very empathic person, and it's hard for me to see him yell at her or grab her in a way that seems too forceful (even if it may just be my skewed perception), because I feel bad for her, even if she doesn't really understand. He said something really awful to her a couple weeks ago when he was mad at her (a threat), and MC even seemed slightly taken aback by it (I was relieved he didn't say "Oh, I've said almost the same thing to my kids before!"). He said H was at a 9.5/10 on anger scale, but for me to ever say something like that, I'd have to be at a 30 out of 10. Which made some sense (though it still bothered me). Yet MC said the fact that she was still hugging him and wanting to be with him was a sign that it hadn't negatively affected her (which doesn't ring true to me because, I mean, don't kids often seek affection the most from the ones who aren't giving it to them?)

Sent the following e-mail to MC last night (and copied H on it--he said he agreed with what I said). Not sure if he'll read it before our 2 p.m. session today, but figure I can print a copy and hand it to him when we start if not. For the record, we've had multiple sessions where we'd had a big fight, then wanted to talk about it and did, but then MC was kind of like, "That's great you had a fight! See, you can argue and you're still here together, so everything's OK!" Which, I get what he's doing with that (since I have a fear of conflict and of people being angry with me), but then the deeper issues leading to the argument don't get addressed. Or they do sometimes in session, but not other times.

"Hey MC,
So H and I have talked over the past few days about some stuff from last week's session regarding his frustrations with me having anxiety and being unable to handle DD on my own for long stretches of time (like the [hobby thing]). We definitely have some stuff to discuss tomorrow. I'm just a little concerned it will turn into a "H is an awesome husband for putting up from all this stuff from LT!" session. Like that it will be a commercial for H sort of thing (I think you know what I'm talking about). I'm certainly not saying it should be a commercial for me (I know I don't deserve that!), but I'm hoping for a more nuanced discussion that addresses some of the deeper issues, as opposed to a "Hey you were honest with each other, so that's great!" Or "H says he's really frustrated with you, and he hasn't left you, so that's great!" I just feel like if it heads down that path, I'm more likely to shut down. I think there's some constructive stuff to talk about around the topic, but I don't want it to be a "Kumbaya, everything is great!" because we're being open sort of thing, since I don't think it's really that simple. At least not for me. So, that's all really. Just a sort of preemptive e-mail (that I copied H on).
Thanks, and see you tomorrow,
LT"

I think your email is excellent, but I wonder if it would be even better if you listed what those deeper issues are so everyone is on the same page to start with. I assume MC knows what they are, but you could still write them out briefly.

Good luck with your session. I hope it goes well!

If worry about a MC who seems to need to find something "great" in every situation. Yes, it's good you can argue and still be with each other, or negotiate or air frustrations etc but I'd be hoping he would indeed unlock the deeper issues. I could see value in you both talking openly about the impact your daughters autism has on your parenting, the stresses you face in caring for her for days at a time and H's frustrations when that's a struggle for you (caring for a child with autism would be a struggle regardless of your mental health issues). There's also merit in exploring how it is for you to be left for days at a time while H pursues his hobby.

In any event, your email was a good starting point but I'd keep bringing MC back to what you feel the issues are and not worry too much about whatever baggage he might have, that's entirely his to deal with.

[QUOTE=Echos Myron;4982365]Sorry to hear things are so tough right now Lonesome. I think the situation you describe is difficult and complicated, and one thing that strikes me is that it might be important to have a discussion with H in MC around boundaries which strike a balance between emotional honesty and speaking considerately to one another.
It really sounds like your H lacked tact, though I can understand from his point of view that you might have expected honesty from him in counselling. I'm wondering if MC might be able to offer him (or you both) any practical skills for managing openness without hurting each other's feelings.
I would also have a conversation with MC (whether with or without H present) regarding what you described here as MC overcompensating and praising H more than you. I think it's important to make your feelings heard about that because MC might not even be aware he's doing it, and it ought to be flagged up before it becomes an unhealthy/negative reenforcement pattern or H starts using it as ammunition (again that could all happen subconsciously).
I just want to reassure you about your daughter - please remember that a good parent is not one that can always cope and always gets things right (no such person exists!) A good parent is one who recognises when they are not coping and seeks appropriate help to minimise the impact to their child. That is something you are very good at, and that is admirable and courageous. It would be a shame if that skill was negatively impacted by H's disappointment and frustration.
I hope you're both able to use this as an opportunity to further constructive communication in the relationship and with MC [/QUOT

I agree with this 100 %, couldn't have said it better.

Quick up that the session went much better than I'd expected today--and that was without MC even having read the e-mail (I decided not to show it to him beforehand after discussing with H in waiting room). Think it was fairly productive, and MC did a good job of explaining the differences between being frustrated with a person and being frustrated with their behavior, which he said were apples and oranges. And between being frustrated with someone's for having an illness vs. behavior related to an illness (he used a physical disability of a "relative" that I think was probably his wife based on previous conversations). He also noted the fact that H was saying "frustrated" but when I talked about how he was feeling, I'd say words like "angry" or "hates having to deal with my anxiety" which made it fairly clear that I was projecting some. Like I felt that way about myself and so expected H would feel that way about me, too. We talked about some other stuff, too, that I may go into on here later, but I need to make dinner.

The session did end on a very humorous note, with discussion of March Madness (college basketball tournament), my saying how I was currently winning the pool I'm in, and I said to MC, "It's the second bracket, the one I listened to you more on." It didn't hit me when I said it, but it sounded like I was saying, "The one I listened to you, moron!" So MC was saying I'd called him a moron and laughing hysterically, and H was laughing, then when he walked us out, he asked the receptionist if she thought he was a moron. So we all walked out laughing, which was nice.

I'll respond more to some of the comments later, just wanted to get an update out there. Thanks for reading.

I'm opposite of you. I wish my fiance would tell me when he's frustrated with me. It would hurt my feelings a little, but at least he'd be open and honest and we could talk about it. I know he's got to be frustrated with me now. I barely do anything. Lacking on hygiene, rarely do chores, in no mood for intimacy, and he now runs all the errands. And he's not frustrated? I asked him today. He said he's frustrated with the dogs, the neighbors, his family, the tax man...but not me.