[rainbow8]

The rest of the title should be "but I feel depressed instead of happy." We spent too long on my not knowing in my body where I want her chair. I said my mind wants you closer but my body doesn't. She said it's important. I said I don't know. I'm nervous now but I won't be after I start talking. So she replied that it could be easier to talk if she's sitting the right distance from me, that some people like her chair close to her toes, while some like her practically out of the office! I think I want her very close but I get too anxious then.

Then I got a phone call from a friend who drives me nuts. I let T hear on speaker phone for a minute so she could see my anger. That may have been productive, a little.

Finally, I talked about her saying that she has to be careful with me regarding boundaries. But she said I should forget she said that because I was getting upset. She says she is not deliberately being careful with me! The way we are now is okay with her, but she thought I'm afraid of her changing. It's not exactly that. I'm afraid it's not all right to feel the way I do for her. I said I want it to be okay to love her, so she said it IS, and then she said, "I love you, Rainbow." We had already hugged, so I said "can I have another hug" and just hugged her again. I reminded her that 5 years ago with me she said "love is for my family and close friends". She said "I changed. Can't I change too?" I agreed that she could.

There was more about her telling me I only know a little about her, that her friends know more. She didn't SAY it exactly that way but I felt it that way. So I said, but I think I know a lot about you, and my first T said the fact that we are not friends doesn't make it LESS, but just DIFFERENT. My T said she liked what that T told me.

I wanted to talk more about the anatomy/sex stuff but there wasn't time. I had to choose and everything else took the whole hour.

I trust my T. I asked if she plans what she tells me and what she doesn't, and she does not. We are fine, she says. I'm not crossing boundaries, I'm not obsessing. Therapy is about me, though. Maybe that's what is bothering me. I will never know all I want about her. I didn't talk about why I want to know this time. There's still something bothering me but I don't know what it is! Maybe just the fact that T is my T, not my mother or friend or partner. But she loves me. I don't know why that makes me uneasy. Why do you love me, T? She said she loves her work!! I'm her work, but I know she means it when she says she loves me.

The above is all stream of consciousness as I always write after a session. Last session I felt a high; this time middle to low. It's usually like that.

[MobiusPsyche]

Maybe you had built it up so much that you expected her saying that to be a transformative experience? Maybe it wasn't...because your already knew deep down that she loves you and so it was not really a revelation?

Or maybe it's just part off the ebb and flow of the process.

Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk.

(((hugs)))

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by MobiusPsyche

Maybe you had built it up so much that you expected her saying that to be a transformative experience? Maybe it wasn't...because your already knew deep down that she loves you and so it was not really a revelation?

Or maybe it's just part off the ebb and flow of the process.

Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk.

Originally Posted by omegalamed

(((hugs)))

Thanks for the hugs, omega. And for my favorite hearts, those spinning ones!

Mobius:
You're right. It was not a revelation because she's been telling me she feels love for me for a while now, and signing her emails "love." Maybe it has nothing to do with it. I'm beginning to think it's a chemical imbalance but meds didn't work for me. Last week I was on a high because T validated me and I felt good about what happened in the session. I felt good about myself all week. Today I didn't say anything that led to a high. I don't think I accomplished anything in the session though my T disagrees. That causes a down turn of my mood. It was an okay session. I know they can't all be wonderful but I feel sad. It could be this is the work of therapy for me: how to accept the middle feeling.

[musinglizzy]

My T used to do those things. Tell me she loves me, and occasionally sign her Emails with "Love, T". Then all that stopped. Took me awhile to realize it....and when I asked her, she said the same as your T did. That's reserved for her private life, and to say it would not be "genuine." Ok..... but then she slipped up two weeks after saying that and said "I love you" when she hugged me. I didn't say anything or make a big deal out of it, but I felt honored. This all happened last spring/summer. Fairly recently I was having a vulnerable moment and I asked her if she loved me. Her answer was that she cared a great deal for me. Then, later that day, I got an Email from her, telling me she felt "bullied" by me, for trying to "get her" to say those words. I still haven't gotten over that awful feeling that she felt bullied. But I feel love for her, and sometimes, once in awhile, I want to say it. I know I won't get anything back, but I feel like saying it. Then I remember her bully comment and figure she may feel pressured, or that I'm pressuring her to say it back if I say it. I don't expect an "I love you too" anymore....but I do fight the urge sometimes to tell her I love her. Sometimes I want to ask her if it's ok to feel love for her, or will she just see it as transference or non genuine? If I knew how screwed up I'd get in therapy I never would have started it! Ok....very late for me, off to bed. But sometimes I still wish she'd 'slip up' again and say it.

I feel love towards my therapist but I would never divulge it. Not sure why, just that it feels wrong.

[wheeler]

Originally Posted by musinglizzy

. Then, later that day, I got an Email from her, telling me she felt "bullied" by me, for trying to "get her" to say those words. I still haven't gotten over that awful feeling that she felt bullied. .

She really said that she felt bullied by you? I can't even imagine how that would have complicated the relationship for me. I'm so sorry.

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by wheeler

She really said that she felt bullied by you? I can't even imagine how that would have complicated the relationship for me. I'm so sorry.

Yes. We had fairly recently been talking about how she doesn't initiate Emails anymore like she used to...so since that discussion, the first Email she initiated was that she felt bullied by my "attempt" to "get" her to say those words. She's always said I could ask her anything, that was a very vulnerable moment, as I was ready to tell her I was seeing another T, but I guess I stupidly asked for reassurance before I told her, and that's what came out of my mouth.

Her words in that Email still haunt me. "your attempt to get me to use those words leaves me feeling bullied." I'm still heartbroken over that. I now try to be careful what I say...so she doesn't feel "bullied." Screw therapy sometimes...

[JaneTennison1]

Originally Posted by musinglizzy

Yes. We had fairly recently been talking about how she doesn't initiate Emails anymore like she used to...so since that discussion, the first Email she initiated was that she felt bullied by my "attempt" to "get" her to say those words. She's always said I could ask her anything, that was a very vulnerable moment, as I was ready to tell her I was seeing another T, but I guess I stupidly asked for reassurance before I told her, and that's what came out of my mouth.

Her words in that Email still haunt me. "your attempt to get me to use those words leaves me feeling bullied." I'm still heartbroken over that. I now try to be careful what I say...so she doesn't feel "bullied." Screw therapy sometimes...

That's not therapy. Watching what you say so as not to hurt her delicate little self, it's not therapy. I hope you find freedom soon.

[rainbow8]

Just saying "hi" to myself in my thread. I am truly sorry, musing, about your situation. This thread was triggering for you and I apologize.

[Cinnamon_Stick]

My T and I have said "I love you" to each other. I can feel the love she has for me and her love has been so healing. It is making it even harder to end therapy with her thought so I think using the "Love" word in therapy can hurt when it inevitably ends. I hope that doesn't happen to you.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Cinnamon_Stick

My T and I have said "I love you" to each other. I can feel the love she has for me and her love has been so healing. It is making it even harder to end therapy with her thought so I think using the "Love" word in therapy can hurt when it inevitably ends. I hope that doesn't happen to you.

T says I can see her indefinitely. Of course she could move or die. I know that. She doesn't plan on doing either!

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by musinglizzy

My T used to do those things. Tell me she loves me, and occasionally sign her Emails with "Love, T". Then all that stopped. Took me awhile to realize it....and when I asked her, she said the same as your T did. That's reserved for her private life, and to say it would not be "genuine." Ok..... but then she slipped up two weeks after saying that and said "I love you" when she hugged me. I didn't say anything or make a big deal out of it, but I felt honored. This all happened last spring/summer. Fairly recently I was having a vulnerable moment and I asked her if she loved me. Her answer was that she cared a great deal for me. Then, later that day, I got an Email from her, telling me she felt "bullied" by me, for trying to "get her" to say those words. I still haven't gotten over that awful feeling that she felt bullied. But I feel love for her, and sometimes, once in awhile, I want to say it. I know I won't get anything back, but I feel like saying it. Then I remember her bully comment and figure she may feel pressured, or that I'm pressuring her to say it back if I say it. I don't expect an "I love you too" anymore....but I do fight the urge sometimes to tell her I love her. Sometimes I want to ask her if it's ok to feel love for her, or will she just see it as transference or non genuine? If I knew how screwed up I'd get in therapy I never would have started it! Ok....very late for me, off to bed. But sometimes I still wish she'd 'slip up' again and say it.

Your T reminds of the T I saw before my current one. I stayed with her for about 7 years though I didn't like many of the things she said to me. She would repeatedly tell me I'm manipulating her when I called her, and I wasn't! I just needed to talk to her because I often felt bad after my sessions. She laughed when I once asked if could get cured from BPD. She told me my pattern of obsessing over people in my life was like a childish crush, and I should just stop doing it. When I called her once to tell her I loved her, she said she had to start her day. She wouldn't hug me because I was "borderline." I kept hoping she would change, and acknowledge my child "parts" but she didn't. Finally, I realized she couldn't help me anymore (she did help with more practical problems) so I quit and found my current T.

I hope you have the courage to leave your T. I don't think she's all bad, but her using the word "bullied" is to me, unacceptable, as is her not recognizing that you have a need to express your love to her.

Originally Posted by Aloan

I feel love towards my therapist but I would never divulge it. Not sure why, just that it feels wrong.

I've struggled with a number of Ts. I used to think expressing love to a T was wrong. I've changed. It's NOT wrong if you feel it, and it's freeing when you express it. It's more normal for clients to feel love for their Ts than not to, I think. And my T said she was told that you shouldn't see a client if you don't feel love for them!

Originally Posted by Cinnamon_Stick

My T and I have said "I love you" to each other. I can feel the love she has for me and her love has been so healing. It is making it even harder to end therapy with her thought so I think using the "Love" word in therapy can hurt when it inevitably ends. I hope that doesn't happen to you.

Even if T gets sick, dies, moves away, I will always know that she loves me. I'm older so I'll probably die first, but you never know. Otherwise, I'm not going to end therapy with her. She changed her mind about some things, but her feelings for me aren't ever going to change. That I know 100%.

[musinglizzy]

No worries Rainbow, this thread didn't trigger me at all...I like reading other people's good experiences in therapy. I was just re-sharing my most recent experience since it was appropriate to the subject. No intention to hijack your thread.

[Cinnamon_Stick]

Even if T gets sick, dies, moves away, I will always know that she loves me. I'm older so I'll probably die first, but you never know. Otherwise, I'm not going to end therapy with her. She changed her mind about some things, but her feelings for me aren't ever going to change. That I know 100%.

I did not mean that your T's feelings would change or that she doesn't love you, I was just pointing out that the word love in therapy is a beautiful thing and I am glad you feel it but it makes the goodbye harder.

Hi Rainbow,
I am so glad you had this healing moment in your therapy, sounds very reassuring and comforting. I can understand the wondering about feeling sad after it. This is a huge thing for you. You have wanted this for a long tine and now that she has said " I love you" she is present and available in a new way and that's scary since she has been unavailable in this sense. Of course it would stir up emotions, sadness and uncertainty because in a way the boundaries have changed and the relationship. You have always tested the boundaries, checking ts Facebook, asking about her private life, driving by her house! Does Sanyo if this resonate Rainbow?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Cinnamon_Stick

I did not mean that your T's feelings would change or that she doesn't love you, I was just pointing out that the word love in therapy is a beautiful thing and I am glad you feel it but it makes the goodbye harder.

But I'm thinking love in therapy doesn't have to make the goodbye harder. The love is something you can always have inside if you.

[QUOTE=monalisasmile;4989568]Hi Rainbow,
I am so glad you had this healing moment in your therapy, sounds very reassuring and comforting. I can understand the wondering about feeling sad after it. This is a huge thing for you. You have wanted this for a long tine and now that she has said " I love you" she is present and available in a new way and that's scary since she has been unavailable in this sense. Of course it would stir up emotions, sadness and uncertainty because in a way the boundaries have changed and the relationship. You have always tested the boundaries, checking ts Facebook, asking about her private life, driving by her house! Does Sanyo if this resonate Rainbow?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/lol]
Maybe. T has been unavailable, and that's the kind of person I'm drawn to. Her saying straight out "I love you" makes my interest/excitement level decrease.

[Cinnamon_Stick]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

But I'm thinking love in therapy doesn't have to make the goodbye harder. The love is something you can always have inside if you.

My main point is that love is such a beautiful thing and I am glad I can feel my T's love and we actually talked about this yesterday and she said that our love will always be there and she will always feel it. I can see where you are coming from. When my T first told me she loved me it was so life changing and so healing. It still is but there is something special about that first time.

I am really happy you got to experience that.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Cinnamon_Stick

My main point is that love is such a beautiful thing and I am glad I can feel my T's love and we actually talked about this yesterday and she said that our love will always be there and she will always feel it. I can see where you are coming from. When my T first told me she loved me it was so life changing and so healing. It still is but there is something special about that first time.

I am really happy you got to experience that.

Thank you but I am actually having trouble with her having said it. I got used to her signing her emails "love", and saying " I feel love for you." Even the "love T" in every email seems/feels a little strange. For some reason, knowing how much she cares feels really good, but her saying "I love you, rainbow" makes me uneasy. I want her to love me. It's just confusing. Hearing those actual words. I have a couple of close friends who say it to me and that's okay. I think the part of me who thinks she's just T's job is the one rejecting her words.

[Bipolar Warrior]

I understand this completely.

When my university therapist said "I love you" I had an actual breakdown. It was just a couple of weeks before Christmas, and when it finally actually sunk in that she'd said it, I became so depressed that I lost my sh****t for a while. Before that she'd just said things like, "I love that about you" or "what's not to love about you?" which just isn't the same, somehow.

I think she tried to bring it up in the session two weeks later (the one between had to be a phone session because she had car problems and couldn't come in as she lives like an hour away), which was the one just before the Christmas break. I kind of put a stop to it by steering the conversation in a different direction, because I wasn't ready, so we didn't talk about it until after the break. Over the break, because I lost my mind and didn't know what to do with myself, I tried to quit twice via email because I desperately wanted to put a stop to the whole thing. I was terrified by the whole idea of this "love" that seemed sort of impossible.

Of course I also love her, but I was never ever going to say it, because it does feel wrong, and it still scares me. But I've processed it, and it feels bearable now. We've also spent a couple of sessions talking about it; she said it just slipped out, and that after she said it she was a bit worried that it had been too abrupt. We'd had a difficult session, and at the end of it I asked her if she wanted a hug, because she looked like she did, and it was our first hug (you know, fear of intimacy). It slipped out while we hugged, and when we talked about it recently she described it as "a moment of love" (because of course I continue to question it, hah).

She has repeatedly confirmed that she loves me, though, despite how much I have challenged her. There's a part of me that needs it, but there is also a part of me that really doesn't want it because it's so scary. One day she'll leave me, and it won't be very problematic for her because it's her job, but for me the mere thought of never seeing her again tears me apart. It feels very uneven. I feel powerless.

I think her love has been healing, but if the cynic in me could choose I would not want to love a therapist.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Bipolar Warrior

I understand this completely.

When my university therapist said "I love you" I had an actual breakdown. It was just a couple of weeks before Christmas, and when it finally actually sunk in that she'd said it, I became so depressed that I lost my sh****t for a while. Before that she'd just said things like, "I love that about you" or "what's not to love about you?" which just isn't the same, somehow.

I think she tried to bring it up in the session two weeks later (the one between had to be a phone session because she had car problems and couldn't come in as she lives like an hour away), which was the one just before the Christmas break. I kind of put a stop to it by steering the conversation in a different direction, because I wasn't ready, so we didn't talk about it until after the break. Over the break, because I lost my mind and didn't know what to do with myself, I tried to quit twice via email because I desperately wanted to put a stop to the whole thing. I was terrified by the whole idea of this "love" that seemed sort of impossible.
LOf course I also love her, but I was never ever going to say it, because it does feel wrong, and it still scares me. But I've processed it, and it feels bearable now. We've also spent a couple of sessions talking about it; she said it just slipped out, and that after she said it she was a bit worried that it had been too abrupt. We'd had a difficult session, and at the end of it I asked her if she wanted a hug, because she looked like she did, and it was our first hug (you know, fear of intimacy). It slipped out while we hugged, and when we talked about it recently she described it as "a moment of love" (because of course I continue to question it, hah).

She has repeatedly confirmed that she loves me, though, despite how much I have challenged her. There's a part of me that needs it, but there is also a part of me that really doesn't want it because it's so scary. One day she'll leave me, and it won't be very problematic for her because it's her job, but for me the mere thought of never seeing her again tears me apart. It feels very uneven. I feel powerless.

I think her love has been healing, but if the cynic in me could choose I would not want to love a therapist.

Thank you very much, Bipolar. I thought I was not explaining myself very well, plus I know others would give anything to hear the L word from their Ts, so I feel guilty complaining about it. And yes, others never want to hear it. For me, like for you, it's confusing.

In my email I told her about parts that wanted to push her away, and parts that didn't believe her. She said we'll talk about it in my session. It's weird that I always wanted my Ts to love me, but now I see, or rather feel, that it's not quite the right kind of love. I think I'd rather have her hold my hand again because that feels more like love than the words do. Actions speak louder than words! They do!

[Cinnamon_Stick]

Originally Posted by Bipolar Warrior

She has repeatedly confirmed that she loves me, though, despite how much I have challenged her. There's a part of me that needs it, but there is also a part of me that really doesn't want it because it's so scary. One day she'll leave me, and it won't be very problematic for her because it's her job, but for me the mere thought of never seeing her again tears me apart. It feels very uneven. I feel powerless.

I think her love has been healing, but if the cynic in me could choose I would not want to love a therapist.

I can so relate to you and what I bolded here is what I am struggling with.