[justme1234]

Maybe therapy isn't the best method for me, and I was wondering if anyone can help shed light on this.

I've was raised in a family that was very dysfunctional and I have separated from them, I have attempted to make friends to compensate for that, but with the environment that I was raised in, my social skills are lacking (introvert and outsider). I have two good friends who I see weekly and I have found that they are real honest friends. They want to be around me because they like me. After my divorce, I found a lot of the people who I considered friends we not at all. A few stuck around, and after spending time evaluating how my friendships work and function, I found several who are only really around when they need/want something.

One example "John" who likes to call me "his best friend", but always makes an excuse about being able to go golfing with me, never has time for a beer, etc. I won't hear from for months at a time, but then he will text me out of the blue and want dinner/drinks with me. And each time I have told one of my honest friends what "John" is going to ask for, because he basically always hints around, and it's turned out to be true. Some of my honest friends agree with me when I decided some time ago to very much limit myself in these relationships. My therapist even agrees that a lot of my relationships are like that.

Overall this leaves me feeling exceptionally alone. With just two people in the world that treat me like a human being.

Now, I know 3 therapists that have stated flat out that part of their job is to create a connection using friendship with their clients so that they facilitate the therapeutic process. My therapist says that I am her client, and when I say that we are friends too, she agrees, but will say that it's a "gray area." I don't know how to be a "gray area", when I am someones friend that's it for me, otherwise I really don't think of them as such. My therapist has said that we are totally friends, and that if she wasn't my therapist she thinks we would get along really well. Of all the people I have met in my life, she is one of the few that I feel we have a really strong connection, we just kind of click. We've talked about it and she feels the same way, she said it's rare, but it happens in therapy that two people get alone and have so much in common along along with personalities that compliment each other.

The issue that I have, and I think it's a problem at this point, is that the root of what a lot of therapists do is forge a "friendship", but it's very one way, and as a person who is suffering from way too many one way relationships, I don't think this is benefiting me. I've talked to my therapist about this, but she still maintains we are friends, that she is my friend. But she does the exact same things that the people who are my "one way" friends do, she only contacts me if I contact her.

I've told her I need a lot more therapist then friend at this point. I am moving forward with therapy with her, as we have hashed out something she did where she really betrayed me, and she is making huge steps to regain that trust, so she's on probation. That's really great for me, as I don't want to have to explain my history to someone else, and have to go through this who "let's be friends" crap.

Anyone else been in this situation and what did you do?

[therapyishelping777]

I totally get this,, the therapists who have been like "friends" to me, never helped me. My T now is a psychologist and is not like a friend at all, but , the relationship buiding, trust building is an important part, now I trust him.. and I think even more so because he isn't a friend type.. he's professional and expert at what he does and has helped me a ton. I hope you can find someone that can help you with this. Its not their job to be your friend or your job to be theirs. totally get this.

[ruh roh]

I have never had a therapist refer to herself or himself as friend. That would feel very unsettling. My therapist is friendly, and a strong connection is (usually) there, but she is still very much a therapist.

Dear Justme,
I agree with Ruh roh, I think it's important for a therapist to maintain boundaries and she does. You can't help but feel close because you have "spilled" some stuff to them that is quite personal. So confidentiality is of utmost importance and I also wouldn't want to explain my history again. I think of my therapist as a teacher. In school, after you graduate, you don't often revisit your teachers again. Graduating feels like a big celebratory step. I wouldn't want to be stuck in high school or college forever. I don't plan on going to my therapist forever either.

[justme1234]

Thanks all.

I think with a lot of my previous therapists it was easier as I either didn't like them or like them enough, but never clicked as friends with them. With this therapist it's much different. I've let her know that I need more therapist then friend and she's fine with it. Just sucks for me, seems like when ever I get to know someone who I click with, they ghost me, move away, or there is some roadblock. At least I have two. Just shouldn't have picked someone that I knew would end up ghosting me at some point.

And I just wanted to add to something Mysterious153 said, with therapists it's different. I want never go back one day, or if I do need it in some way, I can be comfortable with any therapist. I don't want my current and I to be best buddies, but afterwards lunch a couple times a year would be nice, that is something I do with one of my old high school teachers when I go visit the town I went to HIgh school in. And I know a few others that still visit with old teachers/professors years afterward.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by ruh roh

I have never had a therapist refer to herself or himself as friend. That would feel very unsettling. My therapist is friendly, and a strong connection is (usually) there, but she is still very much a therapist.

Yes, this. Friendly acquaintances is as far as therapists should go towards clients while they are still seeing them as clients. Otherwise it is confusing and can cause unnecessary pain, as well as create dependency in the client.

You know the adage "Before borrowing money from a friend, decide which you need more"? I'd say, "Before regarding your therapist as a friend, decide which you need more."

[justme1234]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

You know the adage "Before borrowing money from a friend, decide which you need more"? I'd say, "Before regarding your therapist as a friend, decide which you need more."

I've had a lot more good therapists than good friends... I know what I would choose, but I also know what I'm forced to choose.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Two friends would be a lot for some people (i.e. me). I have my fiance, my mom, my step-dad, and sort of my little sister. No friends. I want friends, I'm just scared of people.

I wouldn't want my T to be my friend. For me, I need clear boundaries because of my attachment. I need to see my T as a professional who is doing her job. Sure she still cares, but our real lives will never entwine.

[BudFox]

The problem for me is the ambiguity. Therapists treat you like a trusted friend, or their child, or even a love interest in some cases, but then remind you that it's a business relationship and don't get any crazy ideas.

People talk about the importance of boundaries in therapy, and yet therapy relationships in my experience are poorly defined and cross all sorts of boundaries in their basic nature.

I do think it is odd that your therapist would declare openly that you are friends. On the other hand, if you removed this aspect of it, what would be left? I'm not really clear what a therapist is supposed to do.

[snarkydaddy]

Perhaps this is just my orientation when hiring professional services. I do not want them to be my friend. I want them to do what I am hiring them to do. I think when they become your friend there is a loss of objectivity. In my opinion, if you want to be my friends, let's be friends & you can refer me to another therapist in this case. For me this is true whether they are you Dr., accountant you name it.

[AllHeart]

Based on my own experience (though mine is two-way), a friendship between a t and a client makes for a convoluted, effed up, mess. The whole thing can be an absolute mind f#*k. Yes, the end result can be rewarding, but the road to getting there is so twisted and menacing it isn't worth it.

Best advice I can give you is to make sure the friendship does not become two-way while you are in therapy with this t. Also, if you haven't engaged in non-therapy related activities as friends, DON'T. This will help prevent any further entanglement. What helped me to gain better clarity around things with my t was to talk about her friendship intentions. This helped me to get a grip on the reality of the situation. A good way to find out your t's true intentions around the friendship is to ask what happens with the friendship when therapy ends.

Ideally, if I hadn't been so incredibly attached to my t during the time our friendship started, I would have sought out a new therapist in order to attempt to further pursue the friendship with my t. Would have made my life a thousand times less painful. I find there is darn good reason the therapists Code of Ethics asserts the therapist not engage in personal relationships with a client until some time after therapy has ended. Such friendships come at too high a price to the clients sanity and well-being, imo.

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by snarkydaddy

Perhaps this is just my orientation when hiring professional services. I do not want them to be my friend. I want them to do what I am hiring them to do. I think when they become your friend there is a loss of objectivity. In my opinion, if you want to be my friends, let's be friends & you can refer me to another therapist in this case. For me this is true whether they are you Dr., accountant you name it.

This is so well said. The minute reciprocal friendship enters the picture, objectivity leaves. It's why you can't hire a therapist who happens to be a friend, lover or family member - the two don't mix. I've never, ever heard of a therapist telling a client they are friends. It sounds like boundaries that are too loose or she just doesn't know what she's doing.

[BudFox]

Maybe this therapist is just more honest than most. What are therapists doing in many cases if not having a strange sort of paid friendship with their clients, or maybe paid mentorship? Many of them talk about the therapeutic alliance as the main thing. To me that is code for paid friendship. When a therapist says "we are friends" I can see how that adds to the already confusing and ambiguous nature of therapy. But in my experience, not saying this does not make things any clearer. In fact when therapists insist on framing things in clinical terms, then proceed to cultivate the sort of familiarity and intimate disclosure normally associated with friend and partner relationships, seems just as confusing to me.

[justme1234]

Originally Posted by BudFox

Maybe this therapist is just more honest than most. What are therapists doing in many cases if not having a strange sort of paid friendship with their clients, or maybe paid mentorship? Many of them talk about the therapeutic alliance as the main thing. To me that is code for paid friendship. When a therapist says "we are friends" I can see how that adds to the already confusing and ambiguous nature of therapy. But in my experience, not saying this does not make things any clearer. In fact when therapists insist on framing things in clinical terms, then proceed to cultivate the sort of familiarity and intimate disclosure normally associated with friend and partner relationships, seems just as confusing to me.

I think the biggest issue that I have is that she knew, and I think I understood that when I provide my friendship to somebody, it's solid. I can't go into a friendship thinking that one day I won't ever see them. With my other friends, sure I don't get to see them at anytime I want, but I know they will make time for me at some point. If they need help, I'm there to offer whatever I can, I enjoyed that part of friendship also, providing it.

The first time that she said we were friends I fought it and fought it, and she made me believe.it just makes me feel really horrible that she's never going to treat me like an actual friend.

[Zenbass]

I can totally relate. I have had few therapists but only the most recent on has helped. I attribute that to the fact that he actually teaches me things rather than just talking about feelings. Like we actively work on coping skills and such and try new things when one thing doesn't work.

[Merecat]

I don't expect my therapist to be my friend at all - and she doesn't offer that. What we have is in many ways deeper than friendship, and I want it to be mostly one sided. I don't want to need to support her with her stuff and to be as accepting to her as she is to me. Nor do I see her as detached because we have a very close connection, I'll feel it as a loss when we end. But she serves a completely different purpose to my friends.

[justme1234]

Originally Posted by Merecat

I don't expect my therapist to be my friend at all - and she doesn't offer that. What we have is in many ways deeper than friendship, and I want it to be mostly one sided. I don't want to need to support her with her stuff and to be as accepting to her as she is to me. Nor do I see her as detached because we have a very close connection, I'll feel it as a loss when we end. But she serves a completely different purpose to my friends.

I can see that, but as someone who has almost no connections in real life, it's brutal. I've resigned myself to just being alone, and that's what I am working on now, being comfortable with that.

[Merecat]

I can understand that - if your T is a significant connection in a world with little connection it can feel like a horrible, one sided parody of friendship. I think part of the work in therapy is to take what works in that relationship and build connections outside - and is something your T should be able to help with. Not in a how do I make friends kind of way, but how do I cope with being in a relationship with other people kind of way if that makes sense.

However we do it, I think therapy can be very hard indeed, mine certainly is.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by justme1234

I think the biggest issue that I have is that she knew, and I think I understood that when I provide my friendship to somebody, it's solid. I can't go into a friendship thinking that one day I won't ever see them. With my other friends, sure I don't get to see them at anytime I want, but I know they will make time for me at some point. If they need help, I'm there to offer whatever I can, I enjoyed that part of friendship also, providing it.

The first time that she said we were friends I fought it and fought it, and she made me believe.it just makes me feel really horrible that she's never going to treat me like an actual friend.

I went through similar misery. It was even worse because I was also caught in a terrible obsessive love/desire nightmare with my therapist, on top of the basic connection. But fundamentally the issue was that the relationship would never be what I wanted or needed it to be. And yet, it felt close enough to the real thing to provoke the associated feelings.

I found it to be a cruel and reckless thing. Letting a client get that close knowing that it's a dead end. Forging that sort of intimacy then reminding the client they are a paying customer and it's all just a game. Like you I need authentic and mutual relationships, not contrived and heavily bound ones that can end at any moment based on the whims of the therapist.

[justme1234]

Originally Posted by BudFox

I went through similar misery. It was even worse because I was also caught in a terrible obsessive love/desire nightmare with my therapist, on top of the basic connection. But fundamentally the issue was that the relationship would never be what I wanted or needed it to be. And yet, it felt close enough to the real thing to provoke the associated feelings.

I found it to be a cruel and reckless thing. Letting a client get that close knowing that it's a dead end. Forging that sort of intimacy then reminding the client they are a paying customer and it's all just a game. Like you I need authentic and mutual relationships, not contrived and heavily bound ones that can end at any moment based on the whims of the therapist.

I'm not wanting a romantic relationship, I do believe it could be a normal friendship. Even she has said that if we had met outside of therapy she thinks we would have got along very well.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by justme1234

I'm not wanting a romantic relationship, I do believe it could be a normal friendship. Even she has said that if we had met outside of therapy she thinks we would have got along very well.

I was referring to all relationship types -- friend, romantic, parental -- and the way therapy can cruelly approximate any of them while being none of them. I meant intimacy in the general sense rather than the romantic sense.

[Petra5ed]

Yeah I think I know that situation. I also have essentially no parents, very few friends. I think a lot of people feel alone, but like you said, I feel like I have known extreme isolation and lack of connection. That alone is enough to make a person crazy.

The therapy relationship is not comfortable for me either. I had grown to love my therapist like a father, and then one day reality was slapped in my face that this was not reciprocal and never would be. It brought me to my knees when I found out just how irrelevant I really was to his life, and realized I'd been living in a fantasy the entire time that we had a relationship at all. All along it was just in my head.

As horrible as that all sounds and it was, I think going through it has made me stronger. No, I will never be "normal," after two crazy nut bag parents, but who is. At least today I am harder, colder, older.

It's like there was this suffering and hurt little girl inside, and he just went in and finally strangled her to death, now the little girl is gone, the hurt is gone.

[justme1234]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

At least today I am harder, colder, older.

What that your solution? I'm comfortable being alone, just need to kill that last inner bit so I never worry about being connect to someone agin. I tend to think she was the final nail in the coffin.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

Yeah I think I know that situation. I also have essentially no parents, very few friends. I think a lot of people feel alone, but like you said, I feel like I have known extreme isolation and lack of connection. That alone is enough to make a person crazy.

The therapy relationship is not comfortable for me either. I had grown to love my therapist like a father, and then one day reality was slapped in my face that this was not reciprocal and never would be. It brought me to my knees when I found out just how irrelevant I really was to his life, and realized I'd been living in a fantasy the entire time that we had a relationship at all. All along it was just in my head.

As horrible as that all sounds and it was, I think going through it has made me stronger. No, I will never be "normal," after two crazy nut bag parents, but who is. At least today I am harder, colder, older.

It's like there was this suffering and hurt little girl inside, and he just went in and finally strangled her to death, now the little girl is gone, the hurt is gone.

Oh wow that is heavy.

I had that moment also of being slapped in the face. I knew it was not reciprocal, and never would be anything but therapy, but when she said explicitly that she did not have any feelings for me (after I had professed undying love, etc), I was mortally wounded. Was never the same again. And when she cut me off for good, it was game over. My hurt aint gone though.

[Lauliza]

If you really look at the therapy relationship, there is really very little that mimics a real friendship - at least not a close one. Only the client shares information, the T shares nothing. There is nothing reciprocal happening as far as emotions are concerned. Healthy friendships are two way. Both parties confide in each other, both serve as emotional support systems and both seek out each other's company. There is a mutual benefit emotionally (or they should). When one friend shares and the other doesn't, I wouldn't consider myself close to that person. One of them may be a confidant, but that is not the same thing.

I don't think the general public thinks of therapy as a replication of any real world relationships. I always think of someone laying on a couch spilling their souls to a blank slate in a leather chair. Nothing about that image suggests a friendship to me. If anything I think the general image is that of a mentor/teacher/guru (which isn't the case either). I think some people may interpret empathy, concern and possibly kindness for friendship. Unfortunately it's not - we can be empathetic, compassionate and concerned about a lot of people who we are not friends with. Friendship involves a lot more than these things and there's always a contribution from both people involved. If you took the therapy relationship out of the office, it wouldn't translate into a relationship that would ever last. There's too much that is one sided and lacks the complexity of a real relationship.