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  #101  
Old Oct 26, 2016, 01:29 AM
MariaLucy MariaLucy is offline
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Another 4am wake up. Eight weeks of this is doing me no good. I need sleep so badly. I shall try your suggestions. It was kind of you both to give me some ideas. thank you.
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  #102  
Old Oct 26, 2016, 01:05 PM
BudFox BudFox is offline
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Was thinking more about this idea of therapy going bad and the standard advice about finding another therapist immediately.

This effectively tells the victim/client that they are too feeble to understand or process what has happened.

It also encourages the client/victim to accept responsibility for what happened. They are herded into the waiting arms of a new therapist who can apply the "correct" interpretation and get the client's attention off the horrors of the prior therapy. The word "treatment" will be thrown around and this allows the prior therapist to beat a hasty retreat because other clinicians can also provide this alleged treatment… if the client will only do the right thing.
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MariaLucy
  #103  
Old Oct 26, 2016, 02:37 PM
MariaLucy MariaLucy is offline
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Originally Posted by mostlylurking View Post
I'd add one thing to BudFox's list, that helps me a great deal with the "waking up at 4am" problem: I take phosphatidylserine, which is just a form of an amino acid. It's sold under the brand name Seriphos but I just take a generic kind, 500mg the evening before. Works wonders for me and is a godsend, but everyone is different. I can only take it 3-5 evenings in a row before I start finding it a little harder to get up in the morning, so I only take it when needed. Hope you start finding some relief soon Maria, at least in some small ways.
I bought some this morning thanks
I am also going to go to bed thinking "I will sleep long and deep all night' and see if that helps!
  #104  
Old Oct 26, 2016, 02:41 PM
MariaLucy MariaLucy is offline
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Originally Posted by BudFox View Post
Was thinking more about this idea of therapy going bad and the standard advice about finding another therapist immediately.

This effectively tells the victim/client that they are too feeble to understand or process what has happened.

It also encourages the client/victim to accept responsibility for what happened. They are herded into the waiting arms of a new therapist who can apply the "correct" interpretation and get the client's attention off the horrors of the prior therapy. The word "treatment" will be thrown around and this allows the prior therapist to beat a hasty retreat because other clinicians can also provide this alleged treatment… if the client will only do the right thing.
The proposal that M sent which they got today and talked about today, (who wouldn't have wanted to be a fly on THAT wall!) said that I am indeed the victim and that I am being treated as difficult and vexacious when actually I am bewildered and abandoned and upset and confused and anguished. He pointed out that treating me like the problem is not helping, - they caused the problem and should be looking after me compassionately. He pointed out that all parties need to be happy with how this ending is dealt with, I should not be disempowered by them telling me what to do.
Also he pointed out that me going to the new T one and a half hours drive way is colluding with THEIR view that I can process this ending with another T. I need to process this ending with THIS T.
So I didn't attend my second session on Monday. I just didn't turn up. I didn't even give an explanation. It being one and half hours away is explanation enough surely. I have CFS/Me for heaven's sake.
  #105  
Old Oct 26, 2016, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BudFox View Post
Was thinking more about this idea of therapy going bad and the standard advice about finding another therapist immediately.

This effectively tells the victim/client that they are too feeble to understand or process what has happened.
Acknowledging how traumatic an abandonment by an ex-T is, and that it is beyond normal life circumstances that a person could expect to deal with on their own, is not telling a victim / client that they're feeble, in my book. If you extend that logic, advising therapy for any victim of any sort of tragedy would be seen as telling the client they are feeble, wouldn't it?

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It also encourages the client/victim to accept responsibility for what happened. They are herded into the waiting arms of a new therapist who can apply the "correct" interpretation and get the client's attention off the horrors of the prior therapy. The word "treatment" will be thrown around and this allows the prior therapist to beat a hasty retreat because other clinicians can also provide this alleged treatment… if the client will only do the right thing.
As I've argued before, "continuation of services" does not exist, and they should not pretend that replacing an ex-T who abandoned a client with a new T is some sort of fix. I think you and I agree on that. But I could imagine that some new T's would validate the harm done to the client by ex-T, the very opposite of blaming them. This might not happen as often as it should, if I'm honest, because therapists in the aggregate don't yet seem to understand the harmfulness of client abandonment. They still talk a lot more about protecting clients in terms of maintaining confidentiality, avoiding dual relationships and avoiding romantic / sexual liaisons, as if any of these compare to sudden termination. So yes, in the aggregate they do not get it. But I don't think seeing a new T somehow requires that the client is at fault. There are T's who are good advocates for their clients.
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  #106  
Old Oct 26, 2016, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mostlylurking View Post
Acknowledging how traumatic an abandonment by an ex-T is, and that it is beyond normal life circumstances that a person could expect to deal with on their own, is not telling a victim / client that they're feeble, in my book. If you extend that logic, advising therapy for any victim of any sort of tragedy would be seen as telling the client they are feeble, wouldn't it?
I challenge the idea that anyone needs therapy, for even the direst of traumas. How can someone possibly need a paid stranger to tell them how to feel, what to think, how to grieve? I can see how it might be helpful, but compulsory, nope I don't accept that. I see nothing wrong with encouraging people to rely on inner resources and whatever is available in their life. I agree that sudden abandonment by a therapist is a big deal, easily maxing out ability to cope. I know this from experience. It's reasonable to seek out professional help, since we have all been conditioned to do so. But i have a problem with people forcefully pushing people toward more therapy as if they just can't manage anything on their own.

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Originally Posted by mostlylurking View Post
As I've argued before, "continuation of services" does not exist, and they should not pretend that replacing an ex-T who abandoned a client with a new T is some sort of fix. I think you and I agree on that. But I could imagine that some new T's would validate the harm done to the client by ex-T, the very opposite of blaming them. This might not happen as often as it should, if I'm honest, because therapists in the aggregate don't yet seem to understand the harmfulness of client abandonment. They still talk a lot more about protecting clients in terms of maintaining confidentiality, avoiding dual relationships and avoiding romantic / sexual liaisons, as if any of these compare to sudden termination. So yes, in the aggregate they do not get it. But I don't think seeing a new T somehow requires that the client is at fault. There are T's who are good advocates for their clients.
I think seeking validation from a paid professional who has no stake in your real life is a terribly disempowering and humiliating thing. Been there. It's like saying you cannot muster it within yourself, and need it to come from an alleged expert or authority. The only legit validation I got was from other clients with similar stories. Just hearing their stories told me what i needed to know. Having a stranger tell me I was ok or not to blame was insulting and infantilizing in the extreme. Plus, looking for validation from a professional who works in the same field as the one who traumatized you, with all the conflicts of interest, is a risky proposition. I did not find any who appeared able to tolerate a full onslaught from me about what a fraud the process was. Therefore, it was conditional validation. No thank you.
  #107  
Old Oct 26, 2016, 04:57 PM
MariaLucy MariaLucy is offline
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I must admit I am sick and tired of being traumatised by therapists. So I am not in frame of mind to extol the glories and wonders of therapy right now. I am glad some people are helped by it. I think I have been helped by it in the past but you know, I feel toxified even THINKING of my ex T. I have various terrible names I am calling him in my head. It was easier being sexually abused by the T in the nineties than being abandoned by this T in 2016. At least legally there was a case for the abuse. In this abuse, there is me complaining about being abruptly abandoned in the most terrible way and some people telling me to just move on. It hurts for me more than sexual abuse did, so how can I just move on? I am traumatised, abandoned, my attachment figure has turned against me and is stone walling me, I had an attachment figure that I trusted and grew to love and respect and he has just decided to walk out leaving me with no therapy (I don't count giving me someone one and a half hours drive away) and I am being blamed by the organisation for being difficult because I am upset, complaining, distraught, confused and bewildered. I am so fed up of this. I think T's who bail out on their clients in this heinous way should be struck off automatically. This T is working three or four days a week as we speak. He is working. He is not in bed. He is not at home in some crisis. He is working. He is just not bothering to work with me, sort out an ending with me or even allow me to communicate with him. Six bloody years I worked with him, twice a bloody week! I poured my heart and soul into that relationship, working hard and never missing one appointment. I trusted him. I trusted him when he promised over and over again to never abruptly bail out on me. I trusted him when he said he knew that would undo most of the work we had done, I trusted him when he said he would make sure the ending was gradually and would not suddenly drop me. I trusted him. I believed his promises to me. Promises that are on record, as I record all sessions. And he decides to do what will hurt me the most, he knows that being abandoned suddenly and dropped is my deepest wound and as a trauma survivor I also am deeply upset when disempowered - and he takes five weeks to write me a letter which says nothing more than ' I can no longer work with you' No explanation. Nothing. and I am not allowed to write back to him. I am not allowed to say what I feel about all this. And people can think this okay???? It is NOT okay. It is absolutely not okay. I know this. I feel this. It is keeping me awake at night, night after night.
I know this is sounding like a rant, but oh god, I am brought to my knees by the cruelty of this. And please don't tell me this man did not mean to be cruel. He did. He knows the impact of these things on me. He listened to me sob and explain the anguish of it year in and year out. He knows how this will wound me. And he still did it in the most cruel way. He could have mitigated it. In so many ways. but he choose not to. He CHOOSE not to. I shall make a formal complaint to his professional body and I shall raise the roof. the problem is I think that a psychologist terminating abruptly with a patient and citing 'personal loss' as the reason, covers him. So he is using the loss of his very old 91 yr old ill father as an excuse to do this to me and get away with it. I must stop, it is only upsetting me writing all this.

Last edited by MariaLucy; Oct 26, 2016 at 05:00 PM. Reason: spelling mistakes!
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  #108  
Old Oct 26, 2016, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudFox View Post
I challenge the idea that anyone needs therapy, for even the direst of traumas. How can someone possibly need a paid stranger to tell them how to feel, what to think, how to grieve? I can see how it might be helpful, but compulsory, nope I don't accept that.
When I said T abandonment was more than people should expect to deal with on their own, I meant that they should not expect it of themselves... they should not feel weak or faulty if they decide to seek out another T. And when I used the word "advising" I meant it as suggesting that they might benefit, but at no point did I mean to imply people "have to" or "need to" go to therapy or that it's compulsory. I am against the vast majority of court-mandated therapy, so if anything I am at the opposite end of the spectrum entirely.
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MariaLucy
  #109  
Old Oct 26, 2016, 07:35 PM
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AllHeart AllHeart is offline
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"I trusted him when he said he knew that would undo most of the work we had done."
I know it's a long shot, but...
Do you suppose there is any sort of legal recourse you could attempt to seek? I know this isn't about money. If you paid this jackass as much as a dime out of pocket, you deserve that dime back. In other words, sue the effer for the 6 years worth of therapy investments you had put in that he just callously ripped away from you. And, for the future repair work (whatever form it may be) you need to invest in.
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  #110  
Old Oct 26, 2016, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mostlylurking View Post
When I said T abandonment was more than people should expect to deal with on their own, I meant that they should not expect it of themselves... they should not feel weak or faulty if they decide to seek out another T. And when I used the word "advising" I meant it as suggesting that they might benefit, but at no point did I mean to imply people "have to" or "need to" go to therapy or that it's compulsory. I am against the vast majority of court-mandated therapy, so if anything I am at the opposite end of the spectrum entirely.
I don't think it's weak to seek out additional help. What bothers me is people telling someone else they need more therapy, especially when given in the form of a directive.

I genuinely feel bad for Maria or anyone in this position, and I see no reason to even bring the idea of more therapy into the conversation.
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MariaLucy
  #111  
Old Oct 27, 2016, 10:09 AM
MariaLucy MariaLucy is offline
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Originally Posted by AllHeart View Post
"I trusted him when he said he knew that would undo most of the work we had done."
I know it's a long shot, but...
Do you suppose there is any sort of legal recourse you could attempt to seek? I know this isn't about money. If you paid this jackass as much as a dime out of pocket, you deserve that dime back. In other words, sue the effer for the 6 years worth of therapy investments you had put in that he just callously ripped away from you. And, for the future repair work (whatever form it may be) you need to invest in.
I waver between wanting to take him to court and get him struck off and pay damages - to just walking away and forgetting all about the b*stard. Just cos he is a cr*p therapist doesn't mean I have to spend a second of my precious life getting him disciplined for this, but I can if I choose to. The best revenge is to live a wonderful happy fulfilled life and stuff him! I can also keep hold of the good work 'I" did and move forward and all the ***** his ending has caused I can drop. Some people are good, he just happened to be an ars*hole and selfish to boot.

I hope karma comes back and kicks him in the butt.
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  #112  
Old Oct 27, 2016, 06:59 PM
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AllHeart AllHeart is offline
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I hope karma comes back and kicks him in the butt.
Oh it will. Tenfold. I sure hope it's soon.
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  #113  
Old Oct 28, 2016, 01:39 AM
MariaLucy MariaLucy is offline
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Me too. He deserves deep s**t. He doesn't seem to mind causing me great suffering - so I hope that is going to be landed back on him big time.
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AllHeart
  #114  
Old Oct 28, 2016, 05:41 AM
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so how can I just move on? I am traumatised, abandoned, my attachment figure has turned against me and is stone walling me, I had an attachment figure that I trusted and grew to love and respect and he has just decided to walk out leaving me with no therapy...

Six bloody years I worked with him, twice a bloody week! I poured my heart and soul into that relationship, working hard and never missing one appointment. I trusted him. I trusted him when he promised over and over again to never abruptly bail out on me. I trusted him when he said he knew that would undo most of the work we had done, I trusted him when he said he would make sure the ending was gradually and would not suddenly drop me. I trusted him. I believed his promises to me. Promises that are on record, as I record all sessions. And he decides to do what will hurt me the most...

I am brought to my knees by the cruelty of this. And please don't tell me this man did not mean to be cruel. He did. He knows the impact of these things on me. He listened to me sob and explain the anguish of it year in and year out. He knows how this will wound me. And he still did it in the most cruel way. He could have mitigated it. In so many ways. but he choose not to. He CHOOSE not to.
you are correct maria and express it so well...

personally,i believe this is probably one of the cruelest things a T could ever do to a client...taking the clients darkest and deepest fear, promising and reassuring that client over and over to never trespass on that fear, knowing very damn well all along how re-traumatising it will be for the client if it were to pass; while in the end as the T comes to reveal their hypocrisy and true colours all that remains for the client is a complete annihilation of the trust they had tirelessly formed though countless hours of grueling and painful therapy work all in the name of the so called 'therapeutic relationship'.

it boggles me how some Ts think that this is perfectly ok to do in the end... not sure how your ex-T can sleep at night, let alone look at himself in the mirror each day after doing this.
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  #115  
Old Oct 28, 2016, 08:29 AM
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i've been working with my T for 6 years. i would be absolutely devastated if he did this to me. i cant imagine your shock and pain...
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  #116  
Old Oct 28, 2016, 10:26 AM
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I think the worst thing a T can do is make promises they know they have no way of telling whether they can keep or not. I so wanted my T to reassure me that she would never leave me but am glad she has never said such a thing. We cannot predict the future, even with good intentions. The most she has ever done is promise that she will never shout at me, which I needed at the time.

I am so sorry you are feeling this pain and hope you can find some peace.
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  #117  
Old Oct 28, 2016, 10:47 AM
MariaLucy MariaLucy is offline
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i've been working with my T for 6 years. i would be absolutely devastated if he did this to me. i cant imagine your shock and pain...
that is exactly how I feel. I was unable to imagine what I would feel if he did this, I never dreamed he could do this and not only has he done this but he is working as normal.

I wonder if I can sue for all the time I have spent with him and all the wasted work hours?
I wonder if I can sue for damages?
I wonder if I can sue for negligence and unprofessionalism.
  #118  
Old Oct 28, 2016, 11:43 AM
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not sure, it says you live in Europe. i did sue a former T for sexually exploiting me. in the US civil lawsuits take a long time, it took 2.5 years for us to reach a settlement.
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  #119  
Old Oct 28, 2016, 01:25 PM
MariaLucy MariaLucy is offline
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In general terms, a
civil lawsuit
is the court-based process through which Person A can seek to hold Person B liable for some type of wrong. Usually, if Person A is successful, he or she will be awarded compensation for the harm that resulted from Person B's action or inaction.

Well I have plenty of people who will testify that both him and his boss have done me great wrong. And caused me grief, distress and a damaging amount of unnecessary pain.

So we have a case for damages. But the thing is that the NHS apparently hire the very best lawyers, using tax payers money - so it is hard to nail them in a court.
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  #120  
Old Oct 28, 2016, 02:07 PM
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@MariaLucy ... Since it isn't the death of his father nor some terminal illness or condition, do you have any idea, inkling or clue as to why he suddenly refuses to see you? ... The reason I ask is because if you can put your finger on that one thing then that might help you know which direction to go in next.

I know the first time I lost a therapist suddenly and seemingly inexplicably, it was like a volcano had exploded ... And, while the earth was falling from beneath my feet I was also simultaneously trying to grab all the pieces that had gone flying into the air ... I was so overwhelmed by it all that I kept missing that one important piece ... And, that one piece - when I finally found it - became the very thing that showed me what my next move needed to be.

Don't know if that made any sense or not ... But,

I'm hoping it can help you - even if just a little bit - with all the overwhelmedness you are feeling right now!

Sincerely,
Pfrog!

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  #121  
Old Oct 28, 2016, 02:30 PM
MariaLucy MariaLucy is offline
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I sent him a text being pissed off with him for not arranging cover when his dad had died. Maybe he just felt that was the last straw?
also maybe he got PTSD from hearing my traumas week in and week out?
Or maybe he let on that he got that text and his line manager has suspended him on disciplinary action for allowing me to text.
He is a weak man. He is not strong. He also digs his heels in. And he doesn't do what is right when others are applying pressure to him. So he could have caved in.
He also may have just lost it.
I really don't know. His letter to me says
"I am not able to continue our sessions...I have reached a point where I can't offer you anymore. I had hoped and planned to continue as we'd agreed but I know now that I'm not able to do that. I do wish that I has been able to continue to next year as planned but I know I can't."

It hints at some kind of burn out or compassion fatigue but there isn't a clear explanation in there.

I think he broke.
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  #122  
Old Oct 28, 2016, 03:05 PM
Waterbear Waterbear is offline
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That is sad, for both of you.
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MariaLucy
  #123  
Old Oct 28, 2016, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MariaLucy View Post
I really don't know. His letter to me says
"I am not able to continue our sessions...I have reached a point where I can't offer you anymore. I had hoped and planned to continue as we'd agreed but I know now that I'm not able to do that. I do wish that I has been able to continue to next year as planned but I know I can't."

It hints at some kind of burn out or compassion fatigue but there isn't a clear explanation in there.

I think he broke.
Ugh, that's what he said? No further explanation? And he didn't even seem to apologize. I thought ethics dictated that T's at least provide a final termination session, and ideally give a certain amount of notice, like a month at the very least. Did he give you any referrals?

And a T should be able to handle a harsh text from a client. They deal with that stuff all the time.
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MariaLucy
  #124  
Old Oct 29, 2016, 11:13 AM
MariaLucy MariaLucy is offline
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Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight View Post
Ugh, that's what he said? No further explanation? And he didn't even seem to apologize. I thought ethics dictated that T's at least provide a final termination session, and ideally give a certain amount of notice, like a month at the very least. Did he give you any referrals?

And a T should be able to handle a harsh text from a client. They deal with that stuff all the time.
Hi Lonesome, no explanation, no termination session, no notice. Just that. And he added at the end : "that is how it is"

I am fighting this. I invested three hours a week for six years with this man, learning to trust him - him working from his side to get me to trust that he wouldn't bail out on me, and he does this. He is working four days a week for the past few weeks at his other job, this man is not incapacited - just a jerk and a selfish jerk at that.
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  #125  
Old Oct 29, 2016, 11:53 AM
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Can't help think of the lack of oversight. What is to stop a therapist from abandoning someone in this way? Apparently little or nothing. The client is the citizen of a mini totalitarian state whose ruler can exile them at any time.
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