[Gs550]

I'm asking because I've only had two real Ts (more than a session or two) and I didn't find them particularly helpful. This most recent one, who I'm leaving, has a very Freudian viewpoint which I don't find helpful at all. Yes, I can point to the early experience that started off my pattern of choosing the wrong men. What good does that do? I figured that out years ago (on my own) but it hasn't changed things. I still go after the same guys. I need something to help me change my behavior.

I don't find talking about my feelings cathartic, I find that it starts me off on a pattern of negative thoughts that gets worse after therapy. As in, we talk about an argument I had with a friend and next thing I know I'm thinking I'm unlovable. I leave therapy feeling worse than when I go in.

I definitely think a lot of the problem is this T, I've been seeing her nearly 2 years and feel I haven't improved at all. No progress. She has ignored me repeatedly when I ask for homework or different coping skills or anything concrete and productive. The last time we had this talk about my lack of progress and how I wanted a more active instead of touchy feely therapy, she steered the conversation to my relationship with my mother.

I want to change. I want to deal with the issues I have. I just don't know if therapy is helpful. Studies show that 75% of people in therapy benefit. But that means 25% don't. What if I'm in that 25%?

[stopdog]

I do not believe therapy is useful for everyone, every situation, or every issue. I think sometimes one can carve out a way to make therapy useful for some things. I don't believe that if therapy is not useful, that it is because the client fails at it somehow.

Originally Posted by stopdog

I do not believe therapy is useful for everyone, every situation, or every issue. I think sometimes one can carve out a way to make therapy useful for some things. I don't believe that if therapy is not useful, that it is because the client fails at it somehow.

I definitely agree with that last part - that if therapy is not useful, it's not because the client failed at it somehow. I'm pretty certain that this is the reason I went so many years between t2 and t3 - because I thought I failed with t2, so I figured I was just a failure overall. I know now that it was simply that we were not a good match therapeutically, and nothing more. If anyone was at fault, it was her, because with her training, I think she should have recognized it sooner. (I saw her for about 6 months before I decided she wasn't helping, and just stopped scheduling sessions. I wish in hindsight that I had told her why I was quitting.)

[growlycat]

Sounds like you could be in psychodynamic therapy when Cbt could be more useful. Sometimes the therapist has the wrong modality for your needs, or thier temperament is wrong for you and some people are not ready for therapy. Sometimes another life experience could be more helpful.

I don't think anything works for everybody.

It sounds like you want something more practical with more immediate, tangible results.

Sometimes with the more exploratory psychodynamic therapy, I think I'm becoming an expert in my own depression and trauma. And that I'm living in the past I once escaped.

Now there's a thought--get out while you can!

[Gs550]

I guess it's not this way for everyone, but I feel like the stuff that comes up in psychodynamic therapy is the stuff that I think about, or write about in my journal. There's not a single topic we've covered where I had any insight. We're just going over the same stuff I obsess over but with no way of dealing with the emotions or changing the behaviors. I actually feel like it's making things worse.

I'm actually really curious about people that have benefited from psychodynamic therapy. It literally makes no sense to me.

I should mention, I got this T through a sliding scale program so they assigned her to me. And the only reason I kept going was that in order to get meds from them I had to be in therapy. My new insurance covers all that so I'm switching.

I think a great deal of the success of therapy lies in the perception of the client. What I mean is that if you have a mindset it won't work it never will. If you have the mindset I'm going to make the most of it you will probably have success. I personally know people who complain and complain about their therapy and psychiatrists being useless yet I know for a fact they have done nothing and have made no effort on their parts to make therapy work. Simply put, unless it is set up for succes, it will fail. So too I think we need to ask ourselves what is a reasonalbe measure of success and will I recognize that when it comes. Finally there is no magic wand. I don't think it is fair to walk into a session expecting immediate change. I have noticed amongst some in my support group this seems to be their attitude.

It is like learning to drive a car from an instructor. The instructor doesn't make you a good driver of a car. They instead guide you and give you skills - you have to be willing to learn them and ready to observe and accept them when they come. You also have to be willing to accept criticism and learn from mistakes made. You don't have to like your instructor to learn from them. When, come the end of the set of classes and you are not yet ready for your test you need to aks yourself if you did everything you could. Only then do I think it fair to consider a new instructor.

My husband has tried it and found it not useful. I find it very useful. Each to our own.

[missbella]

Originally Posted by justafriend306

I think a great deal of the success of therapy lies in the perception of the client. What I mean is that if you have a mindset it won't work it never will. If you have the mindset I'm going to make the most of it you will probably have success. I personally know people who complain and complain about their therapy and psychiatrists being useless yet I know for a fact they have done nothing and have made no effort on their parts to make therapy work. Simply put, unless it is set up for succes, it will fail. So too I think we need to ask ourselves what is a reasonalbe measure of success and will I recognize that when it comes. Finally there is no magic wand. I don't think it is fair to walk into a session expecting immediate change. I have noticed amongst some in my support group this seems to be their attitude.

It is like learning to drive a car from an instructor. The instructor doesn't make you a good driver of a car. They instead guide you and give you skills - you have to be willing to learn them and ready to observe and accept them when they come. You also have to be willing to accept criticism and learn from mistakes made. You don't have to like your instructor to learn from them. When, come the end of the set of classes and you are not yet ready for your test you need to aks yourself if you did everything you could. Only then do I think it fair to consider a new instructor.

When I read a scold like this I assume the topic of failed therapy makes some people extremely uncomfortable. That's interesting because practitioners themselves barely discuss it, and when they do they often blame the client.

[missbella]

Originally Posted by Gs550

I'm asking because I've only had two real Ts (more than a session or two) and I didn't find them particularly helpful. This most recent one, who I'm leaving, has a very Freudian viewpoint which I don't find helpful at all. Yes, I can point to the early experience that started off my pattern of choosing the wrong men. What good does that do? I figured that out years ago (on my own) but it hasn't changed things. I still go after the same guys. I need something to help me change my behavior.

I don't find talking about my feelings cathartic, I find that it starts me off on a pattern of negative thoughts that gets worse after therapy. As in, we talk about an argument I had with a friend and next thing I know I'm thinking I'm unlovable. I leave therapy feeling worse than when I go in.

I definitely think a lot of the problem is this T, I've been seeing her nearly 2 years and feel I haven't improved at all. No progress. She has ignored me repeatedly when I ask for homework or different coping skills or anything concrete and productive. The last time we had this talk about my lack of progress and how I wanted a more active instead of touchy feely therapy, she steered the conversation to my relationship with my mother.

I want to change. I want to deal with the issues I have. I just don't know if therapy is helpful. Studies show that 75% of people in therapy benefit. But that means 25% don't. What if I'm in that 25%?

Therapy not only didn't work, but I found it extremely harmful for reasons I've needed to explore since. I eventually concluded that understanding why therapy harmed me was far more useful than the therapy itself. I've found a large variety of things from exercise/yoga, body work, creative work, goal setting, friendships, work, the outdoors, creating a home, etc. were far more beneficial.

[Gs550]

Originally Posted by justafriend306

It is like learning to drive a car from an instructor. The instructor doesn't make you a good driver of a car. They instead guide you and give you skills - you have to be willing to learn them and ready to observe and accept them when they come. You also have to be willing to accept criticism and learn from mistakes made.

Buy my therapist didn't give me any skills. I kept asking for more - practical coping skills, ways to deal with my emotions. All she wanted to do was talk about my childhood.

I know I mentioned it in another thread, but I tried (for the 4th time) to talk about how I wasn't making any progress to see if I was doing something wrong. I had literally asked her if I was doing it wrong. Instead of talking about that she steered the conversation to my mother. Again. After I'd just spent 10 minutes telling her I didn't find that helpful.

I went out of my way - self help books, support groups, even self help apps - to do things to make progress. None of the progress I made (I made some headway with my social anxiety because I just forced myself to go to social events) had anything to do with what we talked about.

[growlycat]

This may not be the therapist for you.

[Gs550]

Well yeah I'm switching. Like, we'd talk about my social anxiety and she'd ask about how my parents socialize(d). Seriously, I can't just be shy? Like as a personality trait? It's gotta be something that screwed me up in childhood?

I wanted a plan for introducing myself to strangers, not dissecting my parents' social lives.

Anyway, I found a new therapist and I was very clear from the beginning that I wanted an active approach. I want to change behaviors, not ruminate.

[Daisy Dead Petals]

Consistently feeling worse after therapy sessions is a huge red flag. I agree with others that you may benefit from a switch to a more concrete, goal oriented modality like CBT or solution focused therapy. It sounds like your current T is very dismissive of your concerns. I hope you can find someone who better meets your needs.

[Gs550]

The feeling worse afterwards.... I had many years ago mentioned that to a case manager or someone, I can't remember exactly who. But they acted as though feeling worse after therapy was normal and it meant that it was working.

As someone who'd had little experience with therapy at that point I listened to who I perceived had more experience. I guess that was a bad idea. I wasted way too much time with this therapist for nothing.

[Daisy Dead Petals]

I hear ya. I wasted six months with a therapist thinking that feeling lousy after sessions was "part of the process." I now realize that I felt horrible not because of the topics we were exploring in session, but because the therapist was NOT hearing me. It sucks, but at least I now have a better idea of what I want/need to have a positive therapy experience.

[Rive.]

No i don't believe it works for all. Research has shown that anyway - some can even get worse. Freudian approaches have also been subject to much criticism. Maybe a different, more solution-focused and/or short-term approach might work for you.

Dunno. Don't know everybody

I really don't believe that it works for everyone and that could be because of a number of factors! Therapist and client not a good match, client not ready to do therapy. Client not knowing all of the factors before starting therapy and going to see a t and not agreeing to the contract. Ts modality not suiting clients needs. I do think this last point is really important because not every type of therapy works for every client.
It sounds like cbt or dbt could work better for you because the provide you with the skills and copy methods you desire from your t. Because she is psychodynamic her belief is that systemic and family issues are the cause of your problems, sure, most of these are the root but what do we need to help us deal with these problems in the present? Of course we need some coping skills and techniques when we learn that our past is still affecting our present. I think an integrative t would be better for you because they could incorporate some cbt/ dbt into your therapy to teach you new skills therapy can work for you but maybe this t isn't and her approach isn't!
I think it's a ts responsibility to discuss and be frank about what and how they do with the client before starting, to make a plan to see if what the t can provide will work for the client.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by Gs550

Well yeah I'm switching. Like, we'd talk about my social anxiety and she'd ask about how my parents socialize(d). Seriously, I can't just be shy? Like as a personality trait? It's gotta be something that screwed me up in childhood?

I wanted a plan for introducing myself to strangers, not dissecting my parents' social lives.

Anyway, I found a new therapist and I was very clear from the beginning that I wanted an active approach. I want to change behaviors, not ruminate.

I never found talking about my childhood and parents very helpful either. I learn from therapy by discussing what happens in my real life as I work towards my goals. Social skills and understanding emotions are other things I work on, all without analyzing my parents. This approach has really helped me unlike ruminating.

Another thing that really helped me was getting a proper diagnosis. Before that I struggled with therapy, because it was assumed I had a certain type of history. No one really wanted to listen so it was hard to connect. A few therapists even tried to convince me I had repressed memories of horrific sexual abuse. This was very harmful.

Some therapists seem to believe we are all born with identical personality traits. This is BS. It is the main reason why I am not a proponent of pyshoanalysis. There is no such thing as one therapy that fits all, because we are individuals with unique personalities, histories and challenges.

I hope your new therapist helps you reach your goals.

[eskielover]

I believe that therapy works for everyone.....I DON'T BELIEVE that every therapist is qualified to help everyone.....& I believe that most therapists don't fit the person's needs that are seeing them nor do they adapt their therapy to work for the person.

IMO, & from my own experience, therapy is about teaching the person skills that are lacking or they wouldn't be having the problems they are having (even with the more serious mental illnesses I think therapy can help teach the person how to deal with the struggles that their MI creates in their lives).

I wasted almost 15 years with psychologists (those who had their PhD's) until finally moving 2100 miles away from my bad marriage & finding a new & wonderful therapy group & within that group ending up with the 2 best psychologists I've ever experienced in my life. They were good because they taught me skills & educated me on how the brain actually works unlike the ones who just sat there & listened to me blah blah blah about my life without much feedback if any & totally wasted my time & money for those 16 years. I have come farther in the last 7 years than in all those wasted 16 years.

I think teaching for me is truly the best technique of therapy because it is us who needs to do the learning because it's us that has the problem with knowing how to handle the things in our life that are bothering us. Even with my anorexia, it was important to learn what was going on in my life that was the underlying issues & learning skills & then also doing a chain analysis of where a behavior came from is so very important & it created a growth & understanding. We have to come to the knowledge & understanding ourselves because a T can't fix us, but they can teach us the skills so that we understand how to fix the problems that we do encounter on a daily basis & learn better & new ways of dealing with those things or teach us how & give us the support we need for ourselves to get out of the bad situations we may find ourselves in.

I think this is actually valuable for EVERYONE, not just people who have mental illnesses they are dealing with because most people these days have never learned the quality skills needed to deal with the difficult things in life.

probably not everyone. you have to want to do the hard work, i think, for it to be effective, and i personally know some people who are getting nothing out of therapy because they dont talk through things or dont want to do the tough stuff or take therapists' suggestions

[BlessedRhiannon]

I think you can't make sweeping generalizations about what may or may not work for everyone and that applies to therapy just as much as anything else.

I will say that for me, what has made the most impact has been my relationship with my therapist. If I didn't have the solid relationship that I have with her, I just don't think I'd get much out of therapy. That's just me, though. Others may find other things more helpful or important.

My mom (who I think really does need therapy) doesn't see the value in therapy, but that's her own bias. She has repeatedly said to me that she doesn't see how talking about things that happened in the past can be helpful. If she sees no value in it, of course therapy is not going to be helpful.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by justafriend306

If you have the mindset I'm going to make the most of it you will probably have success. I personally know people who complain and complain about their therapy and psychiatrists being useless yet I know for a fact they have done nothing and have made no effort on their parts to make therapy work.

I made significant effort with all therapists I've seen, but did not benefit in any meaningful way. With the last one I made enormous effort, and yet the experience was traumatic and ruinous. In many ways I have been a model client. Diligent, respectful, reliable, sufficiently honest and open. The problem was not my mindset. It was collective systemic failure.

Originally Posted by justafriend306

It is like learning to drive a car from an instructor. The instructor doesn't make you a good driver of a car. They instead guide you and give you skills - you have to be willing to learn them and ready to observe and accept them when they come.

For me that analogy does not work at all, and here's why. Therapists are not teachers nor possessors of technical skills that can be imparted to people as in the case of driving a car or playing the piano. They are peddling a vague brew of pseudoscientific techniques and life lessons that has little basis in evidence or empiricism, and when pressed many of them will acknowledge that mostly what they are selling is the relationship. It works for some, which is great. But how many? Nobody knows. I don't trust any of the statistical numbers people cite. As has been said on this forum many times, there are likely a good number of people who find therapy unhelpful or even damaging who are never asked about it, never talk about it, never do therapy again, and just disappear. If you look at this forum or others like it, you can see evidence of the many many ways this odd engineered relationship can devastate or confuse or destabilize people, especially the vulnerable and the desperate. Just my take based on my experience and research.