[chihirochild]

I have fantastic friends. When I can't eat, they feed me ice cream. When I can't get out of bed, they get into bed with me. When I am sad, they hug me or take me out for walks or let me rest my head in their lap while they do work or hang out.

But still I find myself longing for more. To help me go to sleep at night, I make up these fantasies in my head--about my mentors getting sick and me taking care of them, about me crying in session and my T putting her arms around me. I feel a lot of shame about that.

It feels like nothing will never be enough.

Does anyone know why the empty-inside thing happens? Are there people who don't feel like this? If so, how did that come to be?

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by chihirochild

I have fantastic friends. When I can't eat, they feed me ice cream. When I can't get out of bed, they get into bed with me. When I am sad, they hug me or take me out for walks or let me rest my head in their lap while they do work or hang out.

But still I find myself longing for more. To help me go to sleep at night, I make up these fantasies in my head--about my mentors getting sick and me taking care of them, about me crying in session and my T putting her arms around me. I feel a lot of shame about that.

It feels like nothing will never be enough.

Does anyone know why the empty-inside thing happens? Are there people who don't feel like this? If so, how did that come to be?

My marriage counselor has talked about this, about having a void inside that no one seems able to fill. He asked me if I felt that way, and I thought for a moment, then said I did. He said it's stuff from the past, like from childhood. And the reason no one now can fill it for you is because it's from back then. MC said that I have to figure out how to fill it myself, like he and my T and husband can help me with it, but it's something I have to do for myself.

I have some pretty strong paternal transference for my marriage counselor (he's aware of it), and I think a part of that is me trying to look for stuff from him that I missed in childhood. I've had similar fantasies of him holding me, like I was a child.

Hope that helps some. Haven't quite figured out how to fill it yet, though I'm working on it.

[lucozader]

Ah, I relate so much to what you've said - I was saying something very similar to my T last session. I was talking about how great my support network is - I have wonderful, loving friends and family who care so much about me. I am so lucky to have them. But it's not enough. Sleeping with as many men as I could was never enough either. I want my T to hold me (or a lot more than that), because some part of me (wrongly) thinks that would fill the empty hole inside me. But it wouldn't. So what will fill the hole?

In terms of where it comes from, to be honest I think it's very often to do with our childhood and the love we needed but didn't get from our parents. It's not necessarily their fault - no parent can be perfect... I love mine, and they didn't abuse me or neglect me... But they left a hole

[Dawntreader]

I used to feel that emptiness. Now I run my own business, am active in community endeavors and assist with a lot of rescue work. Each of these responsibilities has strengthened me and I have a sense of meaning in what I do every day.

Taking ownership of something, however large or small, but making it *your* responsibility instead of someone else's is a huge antidote to emptiness.

It sounds like you have a lot of people looking after you. The fantasy of taking care of them might be a healthy impulse. We're not supposed to remain dependent forever. We're supposed to grow and take care of ourselves and the world around us.

People who are either deprived of that by illness, or don't take that step out of fear or something else are usually plagued by emptiness and depression. This is another reason why I don't like therapy at times. I think it can perpetuate a Neverneverland idea about remaining a child to be looked after by professionals forever. And even though people in that state are almost always miserable, they also cling to it because of the promise of something that might feel good. All these fantasies about therapists being people's mothers and fathers, etc. That's no accident, and it will never happen. All it does is trap the client in a juvenile mindset, sometimes well into the twilight years of their lives.

Is there something in your life you could do for someone else? Is there a meaningful task you could undertake which you would have to work at, and would make a difference? Even the smallest things, if built on, make a difference.

[chihirochild]

Thanks LT and luco for the empathy. Good to know it's not just me.

Originally Posted by Dawntreader

It sounds like you have a lot of people looking after you. The fantasy of taking care of them might be a healthy impulse. We're not supposed to remain dependent forever. We're supposed to grow and take care of ourselves and the world around us.

People who are either deprived of that by illness, or don't take that step out of fear or something else are usually plagued by emptiness and depression. This is another reason why I don't like therapy at times. I think it can perpetuate a Neverneverland idea about remaining a child to be looked after by professionals forever. And even though people in that state are almost always miserable, they also cling to it because of the promise of something that might feel good. All these fantasies about therapists being people's mothers and fathers, etc. That's no accident, and it will never happen. All it does is trap the client in a juvenile mindset, sometimes well into the twilight years of their lives.

Dawntreader, it's a good thought. Despite the depression I do maintain a busy life, and have many responsibilities. I'm a medical student (graduating in June). I take care of other people all day long, and also do a lot of political activism. My relationships with my friends are mutual--I take care of them when they are sick or sad, and they take care of me when I need it too. (Med school is stressful; we have no shortage of opportunities to take care of each other!)

But I think there's something about still being a student at age 28 plus being the only child of two very clingy parents that keeps me in a kind of juvenile state. I am very competent in my professional life, but I don't think that I bring a lot of emotional maturity to my personal relationships outside of the hospital. I still have a deep-seated wish that a magical parental figure will swoop in and make everything better, even though intellectually I know that this can't happen.

Originally Posted by Dawntreader

Is there something in your life you could do for someone else? Is there a meaningful task you could undertake which you would have to work at, and would make a difference? Even the smallest things, if built on, make a difference.

I feel like I do make a difference, every day. I sit down with my sick patients and talk about their pets to help them remember what they have to live for, explain to family members what's going on with their loved ones, hold my pateints' hands as they are dying. I call my senators and organize rallies. I help my friends with their projects and talk with them about their boyfriend problems. And yet I continue to feel a gaping hole in the center of my chest.

Do you have any additional suggestions about how to get myself out of this hole?

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by chihirochild

Does anyone know why the empty-inside thing happens? Are there people who don't feel like this? If so, how did that come to be?

Doesn't everyone know on some level that life is inherently meaningless and empty and absurd? Isn't that the basic challenge of being human (Camus and all that Myth of Sisyphus shite). Seems different people come to this reckoning at different times and in different ways.

I find it liberating but also depressing that nobody really has any answers. I no longer feel the need to chase down therapists or guru figures for platitudes and reassurances.

And if people think that having fabulous parenting ensures no emptiness in adult life, well I'd be surprised if that correlated very well.

[unaluna]

Oprah says to keep a gratitude diary. Every night, write down 5 things you are grateful for. I am grateful every morning for my wonderful breakfast and coffee, and that starts my day off right.

A lover?

It sounds like your sense of self. Do you do anything for yourself? You seem very "other" focused, looking for others for fulfillment.

Tbe fantasies of taking care of sick mentors could mean you seek approval, need to be accepted by them, to feel important to them. You have to give something to them, and something as important as their well being ( or in tbe case of patients, sometimes someone's life) to feel valued.

When the fulfillment becomes self-focused, you might not feel so empty.

This is the perfect thing to discuss on therapy. Hopefully you are in the psychodynamic therpary.

Until I saw, your thread, I'd forgotten about that feeling.
Getting in the right sort of therapy, with a very able T is the answer. That feeling can't be filled, it has to be grieved and understood.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by chihirochild

I have fantastic friends. When I can't eat, they feed me ice cream. When I can't get out of bed, they get into bed with me. When I am sad, they hug me or take me out for walks or let me rest my head in their lap while they do work or hang out.

But still I find myself longing for more. To help me go to sleep at night, I make up these fantasies in my head--about my mentors getting sick and me taking care of them, about me crying in session and my T putting her arms around me. I feel a lot of shame about that.

It feels like nothing will never be enough.

Does anyone know why the empty-inside thing happens? Are there people who don't feel like this? If so, how did that come to be?

What fixed me was years of therapy. But in the meatime, medication helped a lot.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

Until I saw, your thread, I'd forgotten about that feeling.
Getting in the right sort of therapy, with a very able T is the answer. That feeling can't be filled, it has to be grieved and understood.

You make a good point here, about the grieving. Realizing it's there, then mourning what you didn't have, then coming to accept it and move forward. Think I'm still at the grieving stage, but started to come around to acceptance a bit.

[Out There]

. I've struggled with this and I'm still working on it. I found this helpful. We look outside ourselves for fulfillment , from other people and material things trying to replace what we didn't get and what we lost , but it does have to be understood and grieved. And we can't change the past " You cannot change what's over - but only where you go " We follow the road that leads to nowhere until we follow the road that leads to us.

That empty feeling inside -- boy, do I remember that feeling. Surrounded by family and friends, a job I loved, etc., that feeling seemed to just hang in there and I lived in constant depression.

It really did mostly go away a few years ago. I hadn't really thought about it until you asked the question. But I haven't felt that way in recent years.

I'm not sure what changed in my life that correlates with that feeling going away. I don't think it is an external factor alone. I think it has to do with the place I have found internally. Somehow I finally found a comfort with myself and my life -- a contentment. I think I finally stopped berating myself and looking constantly for my flaws, instead, I guess I've decided I'm worth liking myself, nurturing myself, and accepting my quirks.

I have absolutely no idea how to explain the process of getting to this place. For me, those years of therapy were vital because I had to get past my past so I could finally find contentment in my present, and my past was a mess. My past doesn't haunt me anymore; whereas previously my past seemed constantly present in my present, it no longer drives my thinking or my life. That alone has been incredibly freeing.

The rest for me was a very deliberate decision to be mentally healthy. Don't get me wrong. I couldn't have done that if I hadn't done the work to get me there. On the contrary, what I realized was that I was ready -- I had all the skills and had done the internal work, but I personally had developed a habit of not using those skills and not remembering what I had learned: I kept defaulting to my old habits of thinking and feeling and behaving. When I finally admitted that to myself, I literally made the decision to stop doing that to myself and start consistently putting into action what I was already capable of doing but just wasn't. In retrospect, that was the last time I remember that emptiness being a major factor for me.

[Trippin2.0]

For me the emptiness is lack of self love.

Haven't quite figured out how to fix it, but am working on it.

[lucozader]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

For me the emptiness is lack of self love.

Oooohhhhh, that really makes sense to me. Thank you.

[Argonautomobile]

Like others, I'd almost forgotten about this feeling until I read your post. You describe it with devastating accuracy. It's awful and I'm sorry you're feeling this way. "

I don't know what causes it, though I think others have given very nice answers. Here's what fixed it for me: I stopped drinking, started therapy & antidepressants, and got a job I love.

I hope you find a solution that works for you.

[Trippin2.0]

Originally Posted by lucozader

Oooohhhhh, that really makes sense to me. Thank you.

You're welcome!

[rainbow8]

I just wanted to say that I feel that way too. Not always, but much of the time. The replies were relevant to me too. I know my T thinks mindfulness is a good thing to learn.Then you're totally in the present and can get enjoyment from little pleasures in life, which add up to contentment and not thinking or worrying about the future. Sometimes that works but it really doesn't take away the emptiness, just makes me forget it.

[DechanDawa]

Blame western culture with emphasis on independence, thinking for the self, self-development etc. Yuck. Then there is the haves and have-nots and the consumer answer of if only I was prettier, smarter, richer, more productive, successful etc. I would be accepted. All of this causes the illusion of separation. Those with status-quo, good careers, money, beauty, intelligent...are the thrivers. Sorry but there has historically been little room for deviation. Things are changing but not fast enough. And there is still a lot of marginalization. Now that I am older I refuse to be marginalized for what...just getting older? being single? alone? I talk to everyone when I go out. I really wish I had more self-confidence. Good to realize that emptiness is a construct. It is a mental concept. Let's break it up and throw it away. Emptiness is...the space between experiences is all.

[cinnamon_roll]

Sorry you are in the midst of this awful feeling. I know it too well.
I think I felt like this a lot of the time when I was growing up, but lacked the words and the self-awareness to put words to the feeling/s.

I've had intense periods of feeling this emptiness inside again and again in my adult life as well. It's not as bad as it used to be.

What helped me:

• Mindfulness and especially mindful self-compassion(MSC) (if you do a google search on MSC you'll find lots of resources. It's a mindfulness based concept developed to help develop and foster self-love and self-compassion.
• Getting more into MSC helped me to view my younger self/selves with more compassion and love.
• For me, whenever I feel this emptiness, it often points to needs from when I was little that were not met. So the question I ask myself: What can I do today to feel my 'inner child' cared, nutured, taken care of?
• If my 'inner child' is happy and content, I notice I approach life with more curiousity, a sense of adventure, a deep trust that I can manage... The result is that I enjoy life more. Also, the more I just "live my life", the less this inner emptiness raises its head. But living life is definitely different from just keeping yourself busy in order to seek distraction from painful thoughts and feelings...

Maybe there is something in this that's helpful for you?


Also, having a therapist who took those feelings seriously and didn't just discard them as brooding and/or obsessive ruminating helped a lot. My current therapist listens without judging, gives me space for grieving the things that were missing in the past, and then helps me to come to a place when I can start looking after myself and my needs.


Wishing you all the best and much love for yourself!

c_r

[ruh roh]

I feel very alone, but not empty. I like what someone said earlier about doing for others. I know you said you already do that...but there still seems to be something to the idea of being a source of support. I think it has to do with living from your center instead of someone else's.

Originally Posted by ruh roh

I think it has to do with living from your center instead of someone else's.

I like this. It rings very true for me.

[thesnowqueen]

I relate really well to your post, except weirdly I have never actually felt this sensation as one of 'emptiness'. The metaphor has never resonated for me and so I have often assumed I do not have this particular issue. Only I think I do, but experience it differently. Perhaps it is more a feeling of iciness at my centre. And sometimes even iciness across my skin (and can happen even when I'm really hot). Also a feeling of being incurably separated from everyone and everything - and this can happen even when I'm being embraced by someone! Like there is a metaphorical ice wall that won't melt...

What has helped me as others have mentioned is a kind of 'self love'. I haven't managed to achieve this in a stable and ongoing way but I do manage to experience it, episodically. The way I do this is with a kind of triangulation. There are people and even pets that I ADORE. Their value is immediate and undoubtable to me. What I do is summon up these feelings and then deliberately redirect them to myself. It's not always effective but it sometimes is.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

Until I saw, your thread, I'd forgotten about that feeling.
Getting in the right sort of therapy, with a very able T is the answer. That feeling can't be filled, it has to be grieved and understood.

So grieving and understanding can only happen while tethered to an overpaid life wizard? The biz has some powerful marketing, that's for sure.

For me whatever emptiness I brought into therapy increased exponentially when it ended.

[Elio]

Originally Posted by thesnowqueen

What has helped me as others have mentioned is a kind of 'self love'. I haven't managed to achieve this in a stable and ongoing way but I do manage to experience it, episodically. The way I do this is with a kind of triangulation. There are people and even pets that I ADORE. Their value is immediate and undoubtable to me. What I do is summon up these feelings and then deliberately redirect them to myself. It's not always effective but it sometimes is.

I found that 'self love' once and it was an amazing spot to be. I haven't figured out how to summon it back. I do have hope now that it is possible for me to feel it. Before then, I doubted I could, I didn't think it was possible to feel it or that I knew what self love felt like. Oddly, I've yet to get down on myself for not being able to find it again or get to it again. I think it was a turning point for me. I already understood that this process is a journey, it is work, and an ongoing focus on myself; so just knowing it is possible and that one day I might get there has allowed me to relax some into the process and into the work. Not push myself so deliberately hard to try to reach the end but to allow myself the space for me to meander my way there looking at the sites along the way.

hmmm I like that.. 'the sites' of my being.