Rupture's

Would you be able to forgive your t or trust them enough if you knew they didnt have your best interest at heart.
I am thinking of a few times ex t completely invalidated my feelings about something, by saying well its how you chose to react to it. She also would shake her head and say "is that enough about that now?" I always felt like I couldnt bring certain things to her.
I remember talking to her about something that was happening in my t training that was very upsetting for me, my t knows another girl I trained with and said "oh poor her, its very upsetting for her." At the time, I remember being so furious but not saying anything. There were many examples that she treated other students I know better than me and helped them with placements etc... but me, well she gave me nothing and treated me appallingly. I text her afterwards to say how angry I was and nothing. It was very upsetting for me, she accused me of being jealous and of course I was because they were being treated differently. I can see now how I let her away with her behaviour rather than confronting her and leaving her. I am just thinking about it all again and thinking about how I would never say anything like that to my clients.

No, in fact knowing that she has my best interest at heart is about the only thing I do completely trust. I don't always believe that what she thinks is my best interest is the same thing that I think is my best interest and that is a worry for me. I could not trust someone that I did not think was working towards what she thought was my best interest.

I think it is fair for you to look at how your exT treated you in terms of would you do that to a client. I have not kept it a secret that I was not impressed with your exT. As much as you seem to be struggling with your new T, I think she'll be more helpful for you in the long run.

Loves and hugs to you Mona.

-E

Well, after a couple closure sessions coming up I may be able to forgive No. 3 for doing something in my interests that backfired badly.

But I think the more usual situation is like with CW - I was mad at her for a few things, but mostly telling me she was worried I'd file a complaint against her and as a result was treating me differently from other clients, which I don't call my best interest. I canceled the next session, making the point in a longish letter that when she said that, it was about her, not me. I ended up seeing her in an emergency session two days ago to discuss a divorce development. We talked mostly about that, but at the end she said "we should talk about this in more depth when you get back, but I wanted you to know you were absolutely right in your letter, I made that session and those issues all about me." So I don't know about trust or forgiveness until I see her again, but it's a good first step.

I think to forgive or trust the other party has to display self-awareness and demonstrate contrition. Which do not sound like your ex-therapist's strong points.

I am with the above posts on this. I would never believe in such a thing that one human being can hold another one's best interests in a pure way. But I also don't think it's necessary, what I like much better is a balanced cooperation with mutual benefits.

However, I think that displays of self awareness and apologies only really matter if they are not empty words... but followed up with true efforts of trying to do differently. If it's just repetitive cycles of mistreatment, superficial remorse, apologies, then doing it all over, again and again, then it achieves nothing but further accumulation of resentments. Then it qualifies as conscious abuse even. Either that, or seriously being out of control.

I also do like how you think about not treating your clients the same way.

I have never believed a therapist could have my best interest at heart. I have no belief that a therapist would know what my best interest is.

That's another point, how would they know only by checking and asking you.

It just hurts more and more knowing after working with her for nearly four years she didn't care about me at all. Maybe I expected too much from our relationship. I don't know but it hurts.

I don't think you expected too much from the relationship. She just doesn't sound like she has basic humanity or a sensitivity towards another's feelings.
About ruptures - my new T (since February) said that we can talk about a rupture as many times as I want. We talked about this the first session because T2 had seemed unable to discuss issues that we had.

But, don't many professions have to assume what is in their clients' best interests? Lawyers, teachers, etc. Going by a general rule of thumb.

In your therapist's case, could she really have thought or assumed that her treatment of you was in your best interests?

I don't know if I've shared this with you before, it is something I come back to from time to time. It is an excerpt from Why Therapy Works: Using Our Minds to Change Our Brains By Louis Cozolino

I'm not so sure you can say that she didn't care about you at all. From what you wrote, or how I understood what you wrote, I don't think she could separate her and herself from you. I think there was too much enmeshment and reenactment going on between the 2 of you and she was not able to step back and see it/see her part in the whole thing - which is in my opinion her job. It is a shame that she was unable to do her job with you. I'm not sure that equals not caring at all.

I hope you can take the time you spent with her to learn more about yourself. Why were you drawn in, what kept you there, how can you recognize the patterns earlier, how can you keep yourself from being sucked into other draining relationships... and such.

If you can, try to be gentle with yourself around the whole thing and see it for the many shades of grey that was there.

BTW - Speaking of ruptures, I'm currently going through one with my T. I think we've turned the corner; however, things feel different for me and our relationship feels different. I don't know how things will turn out. I know my T does try to do what she thinks is in my best interest. What are we to do when that still f**king hurts?

I think talking about it and owning our parts in the rupture is the first step to trying to repair it. I agree my t was shut off. She was numb and unemotional and at times too emotional, never a balance.
Why do you think your t2 seemed unable to discuss the issues you had?

Thanks Elio,
This is a fabulous post! I read his other book, the making big of a therapist, it was really good!
From what you have quoted from his book it describes transference and counter transference. I remember when t and I had the other really big rupture, she did apologise and blame counter transference. She said it's because she cares that she gets so angry and emotional and maybe she does care but she has a very odd way of showing it. That other rupture was very strange how she reacted to me not calling her, it was actually pretty scary. She was definitely acting out of some place in her past and transferring it into me.
I do provoke something in her that enraged her at times, she just couldn't control her feelings.
I wish I knew the answer to your question Elio. I know that relationships hurt even when we are doing the right thing for the other and for ourselves, they are never easy. I think that all we can be is honest to ourselves and others. Do you think you can work through your rupture with your t? It's a nice feeling when they genuinely have your best interest at heart.

They do have to assume but it's not always right. For example, putting a child who has lost both parents with their alcoholic uncle, just because he is family or putting a child back into an abusive family because it's better they are with family. These two examples are assuming that being with family is best but we know that in some cases it's not. We can never really know what someone else's best interest is, we can assume but it won't always be correct. Some people don't even know what is in their own best interest.
I am not sure if she thought that. I really don't think she would ever ask herself that question. I think she assumed she knew best and that I needed a tough love approach but in fact I needed the opposite. I remember threatening to quit a few times because she didn't understand me or even try, I also said I needed a gentler t, she said I needed to be challenged and to be pushed along because person centred was too gentle.

So is working with a more gentle therapist now better for you or not?

I don't really know, but you may remember that I had posted on here about her being 'blank slate', she didn't really share her feelings or thoughts. A couple of things she said really triggered me, I talked to her about my feelings and thoughts, but I think we could only repair the rupture if she shared her thoughts and feelings about it too. She clearly regretted one of the things she had said, and kind of took it back when I next saw her, but without any explaination. When I get triggered in therapy I can feel really really terrible, it's like I'm experiencing my childhood trauma all over again. I'd had two weeks of feeling like the cowering child. I really needed her to be real with me and share her feelings and thoughts about it. I brought it up a few times, but she said nothing.

With my first two T's I was triggered quite a lot during my therapy. The great thing for me now is that with my third T I am not being triggered at all.

I am not really sure yet! Sometimes I think it is and other times not. What is different about new t is she always asks me what I think and assumes client knows what is best for themselves

To be honest, I don't know. I know if I can't, it will be all on me. My T has done the things I wanted from her around the rupture. She has allowed it to stay about me (at least when she is with me). I don't know if I can fully put my hand back in hers like before. I feel like I have to hold back with her.

I watched this video about vulnerability and it has helped starting me to open up again. (thanks to someone posting this on a different thread)

So - can I be so vulnerable and get through my shame to let her back in again? I don't know. My pattern is to walk away at this point, so I'm working against my pattern.

Thanks for asking.

Actually, I do not make assumptions about what is in my client's best interest - I lay the options out, give my opinion as to the viability, and wait for the client to choose.

I don't mean to derail Mona's thread, but I hadn't heard how that session went! I am glad she fessed up in the end about it being about her. That is good, at least.

Or, maybe she was just telling me what she thought I wanted to hear.

Or, since I'd found out something about her that proved my point, maybe she had no other option.

We'll see in a few weeks.

I'm not easy with forgiveness. It has been over a year and I still feel anger and other things for her. It wasn't something she did to me, but how she handles somethings around it. She said she thought she did what was good for me. I've only spoken to her about 5 times. I had to see another T because she went on leave. They work at she same practise.
I don't know what to do with my feelings/issues.